Maybe there is scope for a speculative thread about rebuilding them as bi-modes for Cross Country.What will happen with the 390s when the trains for high speed two are built?
Maybe there is scope for a speculative thread about rebuilding them as bi-modes for Cross Country.What will happen with the 390s when the trains for high speed two are built?
Bit of a cheap shot by you to bring an accident into it and blame it on Siemens, which is factually inaccurate.
Hitachi/Alstom Press Release here (with photo projections) :
Press | Hitachi Rail
the "British Based Firms"...
but one day would the 390s be scrapped after running for so many years??But ICWC can't use 57 Pendolinos and 54 HS2 sets.
390s will be getting on for 27+ years old when HS2 starts up with its new trains.
There's no hint of the design origin of the train beyond being "predominantly UK designed", but one might suppose the bodyshells and electrics will come from Hitachi, and the rest from Alstom.
No mention of "V300 Zefiro" anywhere.
According to rail industry publication Rail Engineer, Bombardier personnel were responsible for conducting the concept and detailed design phases of development, as well as for the provision of propulsion equipment and bogies, homologation efforts, testing, and the commissioning of the first five trains. Meanwhile, AnsaldoBreda developed the train's industrial design, including body, interior, signalling and other systems, in addition to performing the final assembly and commissioning of series production trains. Both firms were involved in detail design and engineering activity.
Considering what happened with siemens. Something seems off about how this contract was awarded considering the poor recent history both companies have. Bad decision making.The Times are reporting Alstom and hitachi are going to be announced as the winners of the HS2 contract.
Alstom and Hitachi win HS2 train bid
The government and HS2 are on the verge of announcing that a £2.8 billion contract for the most prestigious train manufacturing project in the history of Britain’s railways is to be awarded to Derby’s historic Litchurch Lane works and Hitachi’s much newer factory at Newton Aycliffe in Co Durham.Thewww.thetimes.co.uk
Unfortunate really. Poor decision if it is to be the case.
Well their Eurostar cousins (373s) are already largely scrapped at 20-25 years, some with very few miles on the clock.but one day would the 390s be scrapped after running for so many years??
Well their Eurostar cousins (373s) are already largely scrapped at 20-25 years, some with very few miles on the clock.
DfT did once suggest that cascaded 390s might be repurposed on Trans-Pennine routes.
8 years is a long time away to be considering their redeployment.
We're also still awaiting the WCML plan for non-tilting stock, which may or may not remove the 390 fleet's unique selling factor.
That was before the Hitachi acquisition of Ansaldo Breda though, and now the Bombardier content of the V300.For what it's worth, the bogies and propulsion on the V300 came from Bombardier.
Same here. Hitachi's failings hamstrung several operators and obliterated the LNER timetable. Something does feel off about awarding them the contract.It seems the DfT, who claim they are keen not to repeat the mistakes of the past, are keen to repeat the mistakes of the past. Like most in this area, I think we’ve given up waiting for the 701s to arrive. The prospect of a joint Hitachi / Alstom nee Derby product doe not fill me with confidence.
Poor poor poor poor poor poor poor poor decision. Liquidate the entire DfT and start over.So are we effectively talking about an 8-car 80x with the bodyshells shortened to 25m (to give exactly 200m for an 8 car train), something the platform already supports, a pointier nose and a faster top speed? I figure we could well be, assuming the 80x bodyshell (cracks aside) is considered strong enough for the higher speed or can easily be reinforced.
So to make HS2 seem better for Preston to Scotland, they're going to nerd the Pendolinos? Seems about right for the DfT.We're also still awaiting the WCML plan for non-tilting stock, which may or may not remove the 390 fleet's unique selling factor.
Indeed. Disingenuous to blame Siemens for something they didn't oversee.Bit of a cheap shot by you to bring an accident into it and blame it on Siemens, which is factually inaccurate.
The best examples may be retained but most of them will go for razorblades or aluminium cans.What will happen with the 390s when the trains for high speed two are built?
They are not 80x derived they are an update of Zefiro.So are we effectively talking about an 8-car 80x with the bodyshells shortened to 25m (to give exactly 200m for an 8 car train), something the platform already supports, a pointier nose and a faster top speed? I figure we could well be, assuming the 80x bodyshell (cracks aside) is considered strong enough for the higher speed or can easily be reinforced.
Does that stand for just this first batch or for the lot of them? I thought the split between classic and HS2 only trains would be about 50/50, although now the eastern leg is axed I guess there's not as much need for HS2 only stockThey're all to be classic compatible and there'll be a HS2 connection at Washwood Heath so direct access off the Derby - Birmingham route, not far to have to drag them by rail to HS2 at all.
They are not 80x derived they are an update of Zefiro.
Does that stand for just this first batch or for the lot of them? I thought the split between classic and HS2 only trains would be about 50/50, although now the eastern leg is axed I guess there's not as much need for HS2 only stock
Well one place is you can read the lengthy EU commission competition investigation reports into the Alstom Bombardier takeover and the commitments made by Alstom over Zefiro to allow the takeover. In terms of the press releases if you were Hitachi or Alstom would you be bigging up your own high speed heritage or that of a now defunct manufacturer.Thanks, is that stated anywhere (or inside info? )
This is for phase 1 only more sets required for phase 2 to ManchesterWill this order cover all paths out of Euston & Birmingham once all of HS2 is complete (HS2 phase 2b West & HS2 phase 2b east to EMP)?
Would there be any requirement for a follow on order?
This order is for Phase 1 and 2a to Crewe, ie replacing current WCML services.Does that stand for just this first batch or for the lot of them? I thought the split between classic and HS2 only trains would be about 50/50, although now the eastern leg is axed I guess there's not as much need for HS2 only stock
It stands for all of the trains that this contract covers. If any UIC-only trains are ordered for HS2 in the future it’ll need to go out to tender again and won’t necessarily be built by Hitachi or Alstom.Does that stand for just this first batch or for the lot of them? I thought the split between classic and HS2 only trains would be about 50/50, although now the eastern leg is axed I guess there's not as much need for HS2 only stock
...and just four bike spaces in a 200m, eight-carriage train. Sigh.If you read the spec, unless they get to deviate from it it looks like the units will be very comfortable. Things like seat quality, very generous spacing and window alignment in Standard are all specified.
...and just four bike spaces in a 200m, eight-carriage train. Sigh.
That can’t be right, as there will be HS2 trains running to Manchester once phase 1 is open.This is for phase 1 only more sets required for phase 2 to Manchester
Let`s hope lessons have been learned regarding seatsThank goodness for the reduced journey times, if the seats are going to be as uncomfortable as those on the GWR trains.
That can’t be right, as there will be HS2 trains running to Manchester once phase 1 is open.
Wonderful. But don't complain about lost UK jobs if other Governments respond by reciprocating when ordering UK designed products or indeed choose British last in response...I would be aghast if the contract was not awarded on the basis of guaranteed manufacture in the UK.
All the bidders probably offered assembly in the UK.I would be aghast if the contract was not awarded on the basis of guaranteed manufacture in the UK.
It's been going on for years. Most SNCF stock is built in France. Alstom wouldn't exist if it wasn't for the French Government. One contract for 54 trains isn't going to change anything.Wonderful. But don't complain about lost UK jobs if other Governments respond by reciprocating when ordering UK designed products or indeed choose British last in response...
I meant when the Phase 2 line reaches Manchester. These trains will basically be used to replace current express services on the west coast. They will run London - Birmingham on HS2 then re-join the WMCL at Handsacre (Phase 1) or Crewe (Phase 2a) to continue to Manchester, Liverpool, Glasgow and Edinburgh.That can’t be right, as there will be HS2 trains running to Manchester once phase 1 is open.
No as the design has to be an already extant HS design and IET doesn't qualify. It is Zefiro basedSo are we effectively talking about an 8-car 80x with the bodyshells shortened to 25m (to give exactly 200m for an 8 car train), something the platform already supports, a pointier nose and a faster top speed? I figure we could well be, assuming the 80x bodyshell (cracks aside) is considered strong enough for the higher speed or can easily be reinforced.