Alstom in discussions to take over Bombardier's rail business

[eisenach]

France 2 television news is reporting this lunchtime that Alstom is in talks to take over Bombardier's rail interests. No great detail so far. Hope this is the correct place to post this; it will affect Derby as well, of course. Link to a La Tribune article.

https://www.latribune.fr/entreprise...mbardier-pour-7-milliards-d-euros-839600.html

Google translate:

"Alstom buys Bombardier trains for 7 billion euros

French railroad builder Alstom will buy Bombardier's rail business for seven billion euros, German business daily Handelsblatt said on industrial sources.

This decision, which should be formalized Thursday morning when the Canadian aircraft manufacturer's 2019 results are announced, would allow Bombardier to partially reduce its colossal debt.

Contacted by AFP, the two companies did not want to comment on this information.
New juggernaut

With this acquisition of its transport branch, whose division is headquartered in Berlin and employs around 1,500 people in Quebec, Alstom will form a new large group in the rail sector with a turnover of around 15 billion euros, according to the daily economic.

Only a year ago, Alstom had failed in its attempt to merge with Siemens Mobility because of the refusal of the European Commission which estimated that this merger would place the new group in a position of too strong domination of the competition.

The Bombardier Transportation branch, however, represents more than two-thirds of the Canadian automaker's order book, which, weighed down by a colossal debt of more than US $ 9 billion (8.2 billion euros), is forced to sell part of its major assets to stay alive."

 

[Amaroussi]

Competition law might get in the way, but if I recall correctly, Bombardier got a lot of criticism from the other side of the Atlantic when the doors of the R179 type cars for the New York City Subway stopped working properly, which forced the Metropolitan Transit Authority to bring the old R42 subway cars back into service. The MTA originally planned to retire the R42s on 30 December last year, and only just re-retired the R42s on Wednesday.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

There's an older thread on this in the International section:
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/alstom-bombardier-transportation-merger.198865/

 

[eisenach]

There's an older thread on this in the International section:
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/alstom-bombardier-transportation-merger.198865/

Ah, thanks. I did a search first, before posting, but didn't find that.

I don't know what all this will mean for Derby, but the French unions are worried as both companies have significant activity in France and some kind of rationalisation and job losses are feared.

 

[plugwash]

MMM, they already sold off their commercial aviation businesses (turboprops to viking air, C series small airliners mostly to airbus) and their "recreational products" (snowmobiles etc) buisiness (to a group of investors). It seems if they sell off the rail stuff too then pretty much all they will be left with is the business jets.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I like the translation of "mastodon" as "juggernaut".
Neither epithet is very appealing for a modern, nimble train manufacturer adapting quickly to customer demand and technological progress...

 

[InOban]

https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/629472-bombardier-clocking-out-aviation.html

There's an interesting thread on the mismanagement of the Bombardier empire here.

It's not just in the UK where the bosses pay themselves huge amounts while simultaneously ruining the business.

 

[plugwash]

hrmm, so if they are planning to sell the buisiness jet stuff and the rail stuff what if anything will that leave?

 

[Grumpy Git]

https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/629472-bombardier-clocking-out-aviation.html

There's an interesting thread on the mismanagement of the Bombardier empire here.

It's not just in the UK where the bosses pay themselves huge amounts while simultaneously ruining the business.

And while company law allows this to happen with zero comeback for the perpetrators it will ever be thus. Why rob a bank when you can "do a Carillion" and retire to your mansion?

 

[Mikey C]

Ah, thanks. I did a search first, before posting, but didn't find that.

I was going to ask the mods to move it anyway, as it was rather buried there!

Bombardier's mismanagement has been shocking. It will potentially mean YET another owner for Derby, after the mergers that created BREL, ABB, Adtranz and then Bombardier. It'll be interesting what happens to the HS2 bids too, seeing that Bombardier was teamed up with Hitachi, with Alstom being one of the rival bids

 

[Grumpy]

. It will potentially mean YET another owner for Derby, after the mergers that created BREL, ABB, Adtranz and then Bombardier.

Merger that created BREL?

 

[Edders23]

One things for certain once a business is french owned it will be the British works that will close because it's easier to make the British workers redundant as our unions in most cases are far weaker than the french

 

[Grumpy Git]

One things for certain once a business is french owned it will be the British works that will close because it's easier to make the British workers redundant as our unions in most cases are far weaker than the french

Is it the unions who are stronger, or actual French employment law?

 

[Edders23]

Is it the unions who are stronger, or actual French employment law?

probably both

I remember it was in the news when the Peugeot factory in Coventry closed that it had the highest productivity in the company but it was easier to move the production back to France to keep french workers happy

 

[Mikey C]

probably both

I remember it was in the news when the Peugeot factory in Coventry closed that it had the highest productivity in the company but it was easier to move the production back to France to keep french workers happy

"Coincidentally" at around the same time the Coventry plant closed, a new factory opened in Slovakia where the cost of labour was much lower...

 

[Grumpy Git]

"Coincidentally" at around the same time the Coventry plant closed, a new factory opened in Slovakia where the cost of labour was much lower...

If I'm not mistaken the famous British (Indian Owned) brand Land Rover are building the new Defender in the same country?

I think you'll find stuff is built in places with low labour costs for shareholder gains rather than social needs.

 

[aleggatta]

Is it the unions who are stronger, or actual French employment law?

probably both

I remember it was in the news when the Peugeot factory in Coventry closed that it had the highest productivity in the company but it was easier to move the production back to France to keep french workers happy

I would say for sure french employment law. Massey Ferguson was taken over by AGCO and the coventry plant was closed down, some staff were transferred to France and recently all the english staff were laid off. If it wasn't for the large public 'British trains for British Rails' themed outrage that has been occurring recently I think the fete of the Litchurch Lane works would most certainly have been signed years ago.

 

[crablab]

Is there a reason Bombardier didn't approach Hitachi? Or did they and the latter said no...

I would have thought this made some sense, given they have collaborated on a few bids (NTfL for one)

 

[TRAX]

There’s already a topic here: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/alstom-bombardier-transportation-merger.198865/