Alternative rolling stock options for SWR

[Wokingham]

Mod Note: Posts #1 - #11 originally in this thread.

I've learnt a new word today wibble from this forum.

but could two classes of trains apparently being binned by tpe be used instead of the 458, not that I know how good the 458 refurbishment will be.

 

[D365]

I've learnt a new word today wibble from this forum.

but could two classes of trains apparently being binned by tpe be used instead.

I'd love to see the photo o⁰0f a swt 458 I guess they will keep calm with the repaint not to show up the infamous 701

I’m not sure what any of this post means.

 

[swt_passenger]

…but could two classes of trains apparently being binned by tpe be used instead.

I don’t think that’s right. People seem to have misinterpreted what TPE intend, unless the earlier proposal is now cancelled they‘re carrying on with their loco hauled trains. I believe the tender is about replacing 185s, which would be irrelevant to the DC routes the 458s will operate.

 

[Bigfoot]

I've learnt a new word today wibble from this forum.

but could two classes of trains apparently being binned by tpe be used instead.

I'd love to see the photo o⁰0f a swt 458 I guess they will keep calm with the repaint not to show up the infamous 701

Is this wibble too?

 

[gimmea50anyday]

I believe the tender is about replacing 185s, which would be irrelevant to the DC routes the 458s will operate.

not entirely. Pure speculation on my part but 185s are cleared for 3rd rail DC, they share many similarities with 444/450 and can out accelerate a voyager, and let’s be honest the 769 aren’t exactly the epitome of reliability.….
reality is 185s are far too fuel thirsty and heavy for anyone to want them…..

 

[Wokingham]

Is this wibble too?

yup monster energy wibble, will crawl back into the shadows of to work lol

 

[swt_passenger]

not entirely. Pure speculation on my part but 185s are cleared for 3rd rail DC, they share many similarities with 444/450 and can out accelerate a voyager, and let’s be honest the 769 aren’t exactly the epitome of reliability.….
reality is 185s are far too fuel thirsty and heavy for anyone to want them…..

I meant they’ll be irrelevant to the exact job the 458s will do, ie 12 car trains with through gangways on the Waterloo to Portsmouth route. But fortunately there’s now a speculation thread for 185 good ideas…

 

[cjmillsnun]

I've learnt a new word today wibble from this forum.

but could two classes of trains apparently being binned by tpe be used instead of the 458, not that I know how good the 458 refurbishment will be.

Why would we want to run diesel trains over an entirely electric route?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Why would we want to run diesel trains over an entirely electric route?

If you wanted Desiros down there, 350/2s could have third rail kit fitted fairly easily and fitted with a 350/1 style layout which would be perfect for the Pompey Direct. No sense in using DMUs.

 

[Wokingham]

i was thinking for the salisbury route etc if a shoe could be added to run on the first bit, the 397s the idea was to use them as a exclusive train on the direct again with a shoe added

 

[swt_passenger]

i was thinking for the salisbury route etc if a shoe could be added to run on the first bit, the 397s the idea was to use them as a exclusive train on the direct again with a shoe added

Well if the 185 happened to have been a DEMU as built, (in which case it would have a 2xx class number), you might be on to something, but as it’s a traditional DMU with mechanical drives there’s really nothing much electric about it to add shoes to…

 

[gimmea50anyday]

No, my thinking was more towards services through Salisbury and along north downs lines replacing the 769s. I am certain such wibble has been mentioned before tho….

 

[387star]

Surprised the franchise didn't replace the 159 and 158s with the units cascaded to GWR

 

[JonathanH]

Surprised the franchise didn't replace the 159 and 158s with the units cascaded to GWR

Why would they do that? They aren't life expired and suit the route.

Only the DfT could direct that to happen in a strategic manner and the negotiations for the two franchises didn't run concurrently.

Replacing the 455s was a big undertaking. They wouldn't really have wanted to replace the 158s and 159s at the same time and I assume it wasn't mentioned in the invitation to tender.

 

[Irascible]

Can people please stop trying to replace 159s? they're pretty much the last bastion of comfort down here, and you can't run anything any faster anyway without adding more track.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

Why? Do you not want RF’s true bi-mode unit in service consisting of a couple of 442s with 90050 at one end for use on reading diverts and 45015 at the other for power west of salosbury?

 

[Irascible]

Why? Do you not want RF’s true bi-mode unit in service consisting of a couple of 442s with 90050 at one end for use on reading diverts and 45015 at the other for power west of salosbury?

What's going to bank it up Honiton bank?

If you can find a way to use FGW's 1st class Mk3s then I'll listen :P

 

[MattRat]

Can people please stop trying to replace 159s? they're pretty much the last bastion of comfort down here, and you can't run anything any faster anyway without adding more track.

They'll be replaced eventually, but probably with brand new stock. Maybe some hybrid Civities like Northern are ordering.

I think people are just trying to rush that process because of the I7C and Castle stock, and should probably just be patient.

 

[Irascible]

They'll be replaced eventually, but probably with brand new stock. Maybe some hybrid Civities like Northern are ordering.

I think people are just trying to rush that process because of the I7C and Castle stock, and should probably just be patient.

Well, yes - in 10 years they'll be 40, which is still younger than quite a lot of what's down here. They're not falling apart yet, just starting to get rough at the edges, and you'd be hard pressed to find a better match for line & stock I think. Unless supplies of spares are running out, there's no rush. In 10 years+procurement battery tech might get from Salisbury to Exeter.

 

[MattRat]

Well, yes - in 10 years they'll be 40, which is still younger than quite a lot of what's down here. They're not falling apart yet, just starting to get rough at the edges, and you'd be hard pressed to find a better match for line & stock I think. Unless supplies of spares are running out, there's no rush. In 10 years+procurement battery tech might get from Salisbury to Exeter.

And in 10 years the HST sets will be over 50, with spare parts even more sparse than now. It's called cascading, and generally that means you get shiny new units, so what's your problem if that happens?

 

[Towers]

And in 10 years the HST sets will be over 50, with spare parts even more sparse than now. It's called cascading, and generally that means you get shiny new units, so what's your problem if that happens?

I imagine his 'problem' is that "shiny new units" will almost inevitably lack the comfortable seats, superb ride quality and increasingly rare generally pleasant ambience of the 159s! If they were my local stock I'd be wanting to keep them too, they are superb trains and many a current manufacturer would do well to ride on one!

 

[387star]

What a Shame SWT didn't replace all metro stock with 707s (with toilets added and mini tables)

Brilliant trains the desiro cities they just need improved cushions which is doable see Heathrow express

 

[MattRat]

I imagine his 'problem' is that "shiny new units" will almost inevitably lack the comfortable seats, superb ride quality and increasingly rare generally pleasant ambience of the 159s! If they were my local stock I'd be wanting to keep them too, they are superb trains and many a current manufacturer would do well to ride on one!

I think companies are starting to learn their lesson in regards to that, and you don't really see the same mistake happening much anymore.

 

[supervc-10]

I certainly expect the 159s to spend their entire operational lives on the WoE line. Whatever replaces them needs to be a bi-mode unit though, able to take advantage of electrification from Basingstoke to Waterloo. I'd personally love a bi-mode 444 style unit, but something with doors at thirds might also work well, and be good for replacing the Turbos on Cardiff-Portsmouth too if dual voltage.

Definitely agree with @387star that a bigger order of 707s would have been great for the work the 701s are ordered for, although there are apparently some issues with handles for standing passengers.