Amazon grey vans

[mpthomson]

Not always.
Our cul-de-sac has single yellow line (parking not allowed 9-5 on weekdays). We had building works done 3 years ago and further works last year.
On both occasions, the local ticket enforcement folk - despite us protesting to them about it - slapped tickets onto bullders' trucks, during their unloading of material for our house.
Strangely, when the term-time parents block our cul-de-sac with their SUVs, rather than a two-minute drive to the actual school car-park, the ticket enforcement team is nowhere to be found....

Then they should have appealed the tickets... unless there are signs saying no unloading or loading then there's a 40 minute grace period.

 

[Trackman]

Then they should have appealed the tickets... unless there are signs saying no unloading or loading then there's a 40 minute grace period.

Correct. From https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/road-safety/yellow-lines-and-parking-a-comprehensive-guide/

Can you park on double yellow lines for any other reason?​

Yes, you can park on double yellow lines when you are dropping of passengers or unloading/loading goods into a vehicle.
However, these should only be for very short time periods and where it is safe to do so.

Don't think it's a 40-minute grace period though in experience.

 

[richw]

Correct. From https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/road-safety/yellow-lines-and-parking-a-comprehensive-guide/

Don't think it's a 40-minute grace period though in experience.

I was always told 20 mins when I was doing multi drop and in that period the enforcement officers would have to see evidence of coming and going for the purpose of loading. If they don’t see evidence of loading whilst observing they will issue a ticket

 

[Trackman]

I was always told 20 mins when I was doing multi drop and in that period the enforcement officers would have to see evidence of coming and going for the purpose of loading. If they don’t see evidence of loading whilst observing they will issue a ticket

Correct, from same website: (didn't spot it before)

However, if you are parking on double yellow lines, then you have a maximum of 20 minutes to load/unload the goods from the vehicle of pick up/drop off passengers.

 

[t_star2001uk]

As a professional driver myself, driving Class 2, 7.5 tonne, 3.5 tonne and small car based vans. All of our drivers are subject to the same CPC and tacho regulations when driving any of the vehicles. Our 3.5 Tonne vans are tacho fitted and if we are in one of the small vans we still have to make a manual tacho entry to cover the hours worked. My opinion is that companies like Amazon, DPD and Yodel should be subject to Tacho fitment and also abiding by the GB domestic rules and the Europen working time rules.

Just my humble opinion......

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think all business motor vehicle use should be subject to tacho rules (with manual recording if not fitted), yes.

Especially couriers, taxis and private hire, where fitment should be required.

 

[Lewisham2221]

It's unlikely they'll be insured via an insurance company at all. Amazon will self-insure as most large fleet (ie MOD, councils, police, bus companies, Highways England etc etc) owners do. A bond is placed as it's cheaper just to repair their own vehicles and pay out any 3rd party claims rather than insure them commercially.

I may be wrong, but I'm fairly sure most (if not all) "Amazon" couriers are actually independent franchises, operating vehicles with Amazon branding. Same for the HGV side of things.

 

[Flying Snail]

I think all business motor vehicle use should be subject to tacho rules (with manual recording if not fitted), yes.

Especially couriers, taxis and private hire, where fitment should be required.

But not buses on long journeys pretending they are several different routes stitched together?

Tachos would do little for urban couriers due to the amount of time stationary, an 8 hour shift could easily contain less than 4.5hrs driving time. It would do nothing for bad parking, bashing other vehicles or drop and run deliveries.

 

[Bletchleyite]

But not buses on long journeys pretending they are several different routes stitched together?

To be honest I see no reason to differentiate between different types of PCV. Either all should run EU rules with a tachograph or all should run domestic rules documented by way of written timetables and driver schedules.

The simplest and fairest option would be the same rules for all commercial motor vehicle use, though in practice it would have to be paperwork based for people doing business travel with their own car (though some sort of tachograph app could be worth considering).

 

[Peter Sarf]

To be honest I see no reason to differentiate between different types of PCV. Either all should run EU rules with a tachograph or all should run domestic rules documented by way of written timetables and driver schedules.

The simplest and fairest option would be the same rules for all commercial motor vehicle use, though in practice it would have to be paperwork based for people doing business travel with their own car (though some sort of tachograph app could be worth considering).

Maybe OT but one day, with road pricing, all movements will be known in detail via a GPS recorder or suchlike and then just need to accurately record the drivers details. The detail might be good enough to spot erratic driving and/or parking.

 

[northscots]

If their drivers are dismissed for one knock there must be a lot of ex Amazon drivers out there. Each van could account for several!

None of them work for amazon. They are all self employed through third party contractors. That way amazon can avoid pension contributions and payroll taxes

Absolutely. Driving hours for couriers need to be restricted to a sensible maximum. Tired drivers are a hazard to everyone.

They already are. Driving for commercial reasons is limited to 10 hours per day, regardless of the type of vehicle.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Maybe OT but one day, with road pricing, all movements will be known in detail via a GPS recorder or suchlike and then just need to accurately record the drivers details. The detail might be good enough to spot erratic driving and/or parking.

Once that is the case (and I agree with you it will be) there'd be a strong case to apply tacho type rules to *everyone* regardless of journey purpose. Plenty of people drive for leisure on journeys that are dangerously long or dangerously lack sufficient breaks.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Once that is the case (and I agree with you it will be) there'd be a strong case to apply tacho type rules to *everyone* regardless of journey purpose. Plenty of people drive for leisure on journeys that are dangerously long or dangerously lack sufficient breaks.

I agree. Or also drive like utter lunatics. For example 45mph in a 20mph zone. Maybe we can then dispense with the speed bumps that descent folk slow down to sub 10mph for because they care about their car AND other people. We get vans (not just Amazon) launching themselves over the speed-bump outside our house. Kinder folk brake and accelerate (but still not over 20mph) so adding to pollution. Who goes over a speed bump at 20mph if they care about the vehicle ? - the rest can do more than 20mph because they don't care. Judging by the state of their vans Amazon drivers are too rushed to care.

 

[mpthomson]

I may be wrong, but I'm fairly sure most (if not all) "Amazon" couriers are actually independent franchises, operating vehicles with Amazon branding. Same for the HGV side of things.

Amazon have significant fleets of their own as well, including large numbers of all electric vans.

None of them work for amazon. They are all self employed through third party contractors. That way amazon can avoid pension contributions and payroll taxes


They already are. Driving for commercial reasons is limited to 10 hours per day, regardless of the type of vehicle.

Amazon have fully employed drivers as well and their own large fleet of vans.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Amazon have significant fleets of their own as well, including large numbers of all electric vans.


Amazon have fully employed drivers as well and their own large fleet of vans.

Are not most of the vans hired to self-employed contractor drivers, as many taxi firms do?

 

[richw]

Are not most of the vans hired to self-employed contractor drivers, as many taxi firms do?

Amazon own the vans. They then lease the vans to their various delivery Partners across the country.

 

[northscots]

Amazon have significant fleets of their own as well, including large numbers of all electric vans.


Amazon have fully employed drivers as well and their own large fleet of vans.

The vans may be branded as Amazon but they don't employ the drivers. They are leased to companies who operate them on Amazon's behalf, using self employed drivers. Various other delivery companies do the same such as DPD.

 

[GDKEnts]

Amazon employ no one - just about. All agency work. I done it during covid and it was soul destroying.

The more you drive the more chance of an accident too. You could deliver between 7 and 10 and every delivery then had to be attempted twice (don't know if it's the same now). U could only drive for 8 hours so if you were gonna go over they would get you to log off the delivery app and screenshot your drops. Then use Google Maps and message a manager to say it had been delivered.

Also most drivers have to pay the insurance excess for bumps etc and the price is ridiculous. I was stung this. I've been driving since 2012 and had 3 bumps when working for amazon during 6 months. We were expected to deliver 300 items on average with 240 stops. Absolute nightmare and horrible job.

 

[northscots]

But what does Amazon do about it? I give a rating for every bad delivery and nothing happens. I've tried to make a more formal complaint, but get fobbed off, but their bots look for posts on social media so if I say anything there they pop up to say 'Oh no! We hate to hear stories like that, please use <link to webchat> so we can solve it'. I guess to other people that sounds like they care.

But then, yet again, nothing happens.

And guess what, now besides me giving a thumbs down for each delivery, I don't bother jumping through hoops to complain any more. Problem solved, for Amazon at least.

Ironically, I wouldn't have a problem with them parking on my driveway to do a delivery - but that would take more time, as they'd need to carefully reverse out onto the main road, which is why they just park in the most convenient place for them and they'll naturally argue that they're only going to be there for a minute or so, so 'just go around'. It isn't just Amazon; Ocado, Tesco, Asda, Sainsbury's and all the other supermarkets all park blocking pavements and even roads to do their deliveries and they're usually there a lot longer. Sometimes leads to cars driving along the pavement to get around.

We all seem to accept this as normal now, and it isn't going to change because they're on the clock.

They can't park on your driveway. Amazon drivers are specifically told not to do this unless there's no other option. I assume to prevent property damage claims.

 

[jon0844]

They should be able to use a driveway (of the recipient) without hitting anything but having seen their driving skills, perhaps it is for the best.

Meanwhile, it was tragic to hear the news of the murdered driver but given the clear time pressures, is it any surprise that vans are at risk when they are parked up with the engine left running for drops? How many thefts are there that we don't hear about because nobody got hurt?

 

[richw]

They can't park on your driveway. Amazon drivers are specifically told not to do this unless there's no other option. I assume to prevent property damage claims.

That was the policy when I did delivery for Sainsburys, and it was indeed to prevent damage claims from the land owner

 

[YorkshireBear]

They should be able to use a driveway (of the recipient) without hitting anything but having seen their driving skills, perhaps it is for the best.

Meanwhile, it was tragic to hear the news of the murdered driver but given the clear time pressures, is it any surprise that vans are at risk when they are parked up with the engine left running for drops? How many thefts are there that we don't hear about because nobody got hurt?

Interestingly, I live within 5 miles of the location of murder and since then I've noticed many Amazon vana being double manned.

 

[En]

That was the policy when I did delivery for Sainsburys, and it was indeed to prevent damage claims from the land owner

indeed, also there is the risk even with relatively modeestly heavy vans and small trucks of exceeding the safe waieght for the drive way

Interestingly, I live within 5 miles of the location of murder and since then I've noticed many Amazon vana being double manned.

various organisatiosn do have policies that aloow / require additional staffing on delivery vehicles in high risk areas whether that is double manning on 'parcel' work or triple manning on the normally double handed 'white glove' delivery teams who do furiture , white or brown goods , wihhc of course the added aspect of the value of the vehicle and stock on brown goods in particular

 

[YorkshireBear]

indeed, also there is the risk even with relatively modeestly heavy vans and small trucks of exceeding the safe waieght for the drive way


various organisatiosn do have policies that aloow / require additional staffing on delivery vehicles in high risk areas whether that is double manning on 'parcel' work or triple manning on the normally double handed 'white glove' delivery teams who do furiture , white or brown goods , wihhc of course the added aspect of the value of the vehicle and stock on brown goods in particular

Yes, however this is very new and very apparent all of a sudden I have never noticed one on my street before.

 

[En]

Yes, however this is very new and very apparent all of a sudden I have never noticed one on my street before.

it's not new it's well established in other organisations normally as a response to a delivery crew being held up mre than once in particular areas, much the same as some cab firms and takeaways won't go into certain estates or onto certain 'residential parks' due to past problems with drivers being assaulted / held up ...

 

[YorkshireBear]

it's not new it's well established in other organisations normally as a response to a delivery crew being held up mre than once in particular areas, much the same as some cab firms and takeaways won't go into certain estates or onto certain 'residential parks' due to past problems with drivers being assaulted / held up ...

I'm not saying the concept is new. I'm saying Amazon drivers doing it on my estate is new.

 

[Western 52]

I spotted an Amazon van yesterday near Bristol with several dents all round. Presumably at least 4 bumps for that one, and it was a 23 registration plate!

 

[Peter Sarf]

An example of misbehaviour involving the pedal/electric Amazon vans.
Croydon, Purley Way junction with Beddington Farm Road. Cycle lane and 3 lanes North bound. Electric/pedal van on the cycle lane came down the side of the stationary traffic and straight through the red. Turned left as I walked across on my green !. Not a very near miss but a blatant light jumping by something bigger than a bike !.

 

[DelW]

Not a grey van this time, but it seems Amazon's blue lorry drivers have an equally cavalier attitude to road safety, and are happy to trash street furniture and drive away leaving it hazardous for pedestrians and other drivers.

Amazon lorry crushes bollards in Ealing

Watch the moment an Amazon lorry was filmed mounting the pavement in Ealing, crushing bollards.

www.bbc.co.uk

(video on BBC website showing an Amazon lorry destroying a row of iron bollards on a pavement)

One can only hope Amazon will be made to spend a tiny proportion of its billions of profits repairing the mess, but the bill will probably end up with council tax payers once Amazon gets its lawyers on the case.

 

[northscots]

Not a grey van this time, but it seems Amazon's blue lorry drivers have an equally cavalier attitude to road safety, and are happy to trash street furniture and drive away leaving it hazardous for pedestrians and other drivers.

Amazon lorry crushes bollards in Ealing

Watch the moment an Amazon lorry was filmed mounting the pavement in Ealing, crushing bollards.

www.bbc.co.uk

(video on BBC website showing an Amazon lorry destroying a row of iron bollards on a pavement)

One can only hope Amazon will be made to spend a tiny proportion of its billions of profits repairing the mess, but the bill will probably end up with council tax payers once Amazon gets its lawyers on the case.

Amazon won't own the vehicle or employ the driver. It'll be a haulage firm with an amazon contract.