An unusual place to "park" a 222

[Harpers Tate]

Yesterday at around 1230 I spotted an East Midlands meridian unit seemingly stationary on the eastbound running line just past Woodhouse Junction (Sth Yorks) on the line towards Worksop/Retford.

There is no EMT service normally expected via this route, and even if the usual route south of Sheffield were out of order, the typical diversion via Beighton would see trains going south(ish) at Woodhouse, rather than east(ish).

 

[Thomas6187]

It would have been this

5C47 Sheffield-Sheffield

 

[eastwestdivide]

Those ECS moves normally reverse at Woodburn Junction, rather than Woodhouse.
The one linked in post 2 shows it leaving Sheffield on time, but arriving back nearly half an hour late.
Maybe they couldn't get the points to reverse (or a similar problem) at Woodburn, and had to run out to Woodhouse instead?
Whatever, must have been a temporary problem as the ECS moves an hour before and an hour later ran normally according to realtimetrains.

 

[CallySleeper]

When I was writing a timetable for the Sheffield area recently I found that while a number of trains are booked to reverse at Woodburn Junction, in actual fact they couldn't always because they clash with Sheffield - Kiveton trains, so they would need to reverse elsewhere e.g. at Woodhouse.

 

[Harpers Tate]

I guess a tech. problem at WoodBURN would account for it running forward to WoodHOUSE. Thx.

 

[louis97]

When I was writing a timetable for the Sheffield area recently I found that while a number of trains are booked to reverse at Woodburn Junction, in actual fact they couldn't always because they clash with Sheffield - Kiveton trains, so they would need to reverse elsewhere e.g. at Woodhouse.

But surely they reverse on the line up to Tinsley and not on the mainline if that is the case.

 

[CallySleeper]

But surely they reverse on the line up to Tinsley and not on the mainline if that is the case.

This is correct.

 

[eastwestdivide]

But surely they reverse on the line up to Tinsley and not on the mainline if that is the case.

Not when I was at Woodburn Junction a couple of Saturdays ago. Stopped on the mainline towards Worksop, and came back over the crossover just by the footbridge there. I've a photo on the other computer, and someone else observed it here:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/daohaiku/13767061714/in/photostream/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/daohaiku/13766719095/

There's nothing timetabled that way for the 10-15 mins that they are booked to stand there.

 

[louis97]

Not when I was at Woodburn Junction a couple of Saturdays ago. Stopped on the mainline towards Worksop, and came back over the crossover just by the footbridge there. I've a photo on the other computer, and someone else observed it here:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/daohaiku/13767061714/in/photostream/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/daohaiku/13766719095/

There's nothing timetabled that way for the 10-15 mins that they are booked to stand there.

I'm sure in that case the mainline was not required then. I was merely stating that Woodburn Junction is possible to reverse at without blocking the mainline. Given that CallySleeper suggested it was not possible and going down to Woodhouse was the only option.

 

[eastwestdivide]

Yes, just trying to clarify what appears to be the "normal" course of events.
CallySleeper - do you have an example of the clash you referred to in post 4?
With only 12 or so minutes booked to change ends at Woodburn, going all the way to Woodhouse looks like a recipe for late running.

 

[Mugby]

Oh for the days when all Midland line trains used to run up to Nunnery Carriage Sidings!

 

[Hairy Bear]

They are booked to reverse at Woodburn every time.
Woodhouse would be a very rare event.

 

[CallySleeper]

CallySleeper - do you have an example of the clash you referred to in post 4?

This was at Easter when there was a lot of STP trains relating to engineering work; since it was Easter unfortunately the timetables aren't available.

I did find these two trains though:
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y77136/2014/11/15/advanced
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C71800/2014/11/15/advanced

I would have thought it would be possible as I said to reverse on the Tinsley line as opposed to the mainline; whether this is done/permissible in real life I wouldn't be able to pass comment on.

 

[eastwestdivide]

Interesting - the Sheffield-Retford passing at 1728, the ECS booked from 1713-36.
You could still arrange it to be doable on the main line, if the ECS reached the crossover at 1713, 5 mins or so to change ends, depart again at 1720-ish onto the Sheffield-bound line and wait at the next signal (or any signal before Nunnery Main Line Junction). There's nothing booked on the Sheffield-bound line until 1740.
Like you, I've no idea if reversing on the Tinsley single line is permissible. Didn't we have a Woodburn Jn signaller on the forum at some point? They might be able to clarify.

 

[Tomnick]

I can't see why it wouldn't be possible for the ECS move to reverse on the single line towards Tinsley, from a signalling point of view at least.

 

[Mugby]

Thinking about this, wherever the ECS goes to reverse, Woodburn, Woodhouse etc, it has to cross the Up main at Nunnery Main Line Jcn. to get there.

What's the difference between doing that and running up to the sidings at Mill Race?
It would still be one move across the Up main to get inside and it would still be pathed back onto the Up main to return, just as it is at Nunnery. Would it be an option?

 

[CallySleeper]

I'd say paths and route knowledge probably.

 

[eastwestdivide]

Probably more to do with occupying the main line (the one out to Meadowhall) for as little time as possible. Although the down ECS would still have to cross the up line whichever turnaround point you use, it's a mile or so further out to Mill Race, and it's a busier/faster stretch of line, so crossing over to Mill Race would eat up more capacity, and take more time than crossing at Nunnery MLJ and waiting on the Worksop line.
Would also be more prone to disruption if there was late running of any sort on the main line.
Not sure about the route knowledge - I've seen EMT trains stabled at Mill Race before, but I think they were ECS from Leeds, waiting for their slot into Sheffield. For example http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C71674/2014/11/17/advanced.