Analogue clocks on station buildings and other features - why only in Europe?

[RailWonderer]

In various European countries there are features like analogue clocks on the station building and inside as well but in the UK we tend to keep them to major termini like St Pancras. Are there any other European features the UK should/could adopt?

Our station canopies are mostly flat which is strange given we get enough rainfall to use curved or pointed canopies for better rainfall drainage. Are there any other station features seen in Europe or further afield the UK should adopt, whether for functionality or just to make them look better?

 

[30907]

Our station camopies are mostly flat which is strange given we get enough rainfall to use curved or pointed canopies for better rainfall drainage.

Are they? I'm struggling to think of many, though there are some modern ones that slope gently towards the centre which is ideal for drainage (provided the gullies don't get blocked).

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Clocks?
Well there's these at Melbourne Flinders St station, one of the iconic meeting points "under the clocks".
Each platform has its own clock with the next departure time posted.

The Clocks Melbourne - Charlie Scribbles

I’ll meet you under the clocks is a phrase used by generations of people from Melbourne to organise where to meet someone at Flinders street train station, one of the busiest in the country.

www.charliescribbles.com

I’ll meet you under the clocks is a phrase used by generations of people to organise a rendezvous in Melbourne city centre.
The nine clocks over the entrance to Flinders Street railway station date from the 1860s and are some fifty years older than the current station, which was opened in 1909 after redevelopment.
Over the years, they have borne witness to life in Melbourne, including when it was reportedly the busiest station in the world in the 1920s with over 200,000 passengers per day passing through its doors.
Imported from England, they show the departure times for the next trains and well as the departure platform.
Originally, the hands were changed manually with a long pole and it is estimated in a nine-hour shift the operator may have had to change them 900 times.

 

[AndrewE]

In various European countries there are features like analogue clocks on the station building and inside as well but in the UK we tend to keep them to major termini like St Pancras. Are there any other European features the UK should/could adopt?

2 hours and nobody has yet pointed out that digital clocks have no moving parts and are therefore much cheaper! (unless they are heritage Solari equipment.) They are easier to keep to correct time too - Liverpool Lime St this is you!

Abroad they will realise that the analogue clock gives almost everyone an immediate mental picture/awareness of the time, here in the UK we only look at the first cost of providing an indicator of time - which requires every user to absorb and process the number then subtract it from the (digital) number of the departure time.
With an analogue clock (assuming you can tell the time) you just look at it and subconsciously know how long until your train departs.

Of course a clock with moving parts is more expensive to buy, run and maintain, which is why they are generally only to be found at "heritage" or listed UK stations. You get what you pay for!

 

[Meerkat]

2 hours and nobody has yet pointed out that digital clocks have no moving parts and are therefore much cheaper! (unless they are heritage Solari equipment.) They are easier to keep to correct time too - Liverpool Lime St this is you!

Abroad they will realise that the analogue clock gives almost everyone an immediate mental picture/awareness of the time, here in the UK we only look at the first cost of providing an indicator of time - which requires every user to absorb and process the number then subtract it from the (digital) number of the departure time.
With an analogue clock (assuming you can tell the time) you just look at it and subconsciously know how long until your train departs.

Of course a clock with moving parts is more expensive to buy, run and maintain, which is why they are generally only to be found at "heritage" or listed UK stations. You get what you pay for!

A digital clock is far easier - the timetable is digital, the clock is digital….easy maths
As opposed to converting one of the times before working it out.
And you can see a digital clock more clearly from further away.

 

[AndrewE]

A digital clock is far easier - the timetable is digital, the clock is digital….easy maths
As opposed to converting one of the times before working it out.
And you can see a digital clock more clearly from further away.

all depends on your number skills - which aren't universal.

 

[td97]

In various European countries there are features like analogue clocks on the station building and inside as well but in the UK

The Enterprise service in NI has an analogue clock on the LCD PIS display (and no digital clock duplicate).

 

[AndrewE]

The Enterprise service in NI has an analogue clock on the LCD PIS display (and no digital clock duplicate).

Very good. That's as it should be!

 

[Tio Terry]

Norwich has an analogue clock on the outside of the station cupula, but it's also a listed building so it's not likely to be converted to digital.
It was originally a mechanical clock, made in Norwich, but the movement was changed in BR days. The original movement was given to a local museum.

 

[Smwrff]

There is a clock on the current roof of Cardiff Central station. But does not appear to be in the revised plans...

 

[geoffk]

Stalybridge has an analogue clock. Apparently the one at Carnforth was taken down some time ago.

 

[Meerkat]

all depends on your number skills - which aren't universal.

I struggle to believe there are people who can’t do simple subtraction but can tell the time on an analogue clock

 

[najaB]

With an analogue clock (assuming you can tell the time) you just look at it and subconsciously know how long until your train departs.

For people over 40, maybe. But I know younger people who literally can't tell the time on an analogue clock without numbers (and struggle if there are numbers).

 

[HSTEd]

I struggle to believe there are people who can’t do simple subtraction but can tell the time on an analogue clock

Indeed there was a semi famous incident on one of the reality TV programmes (I think it was "I'm a celebrity, get me out of here?") where someone had to be taught how an analogue clock works because they never learned it.

 

[MarkyT]

There are very simple rugged sealed electric mechanisms available to drive analogue clock hands today, highly accurate with radio synchronisation built in. They're virtually maintenance-free, fit-and-forget units, and not ruinously expensive.

 

[Basil Jet]

There are very simple rugged sealed electric mechanisms available to drive analogue clock hands today, highly accurate with radio synchronisation built in. They're virtually maintenance-free, fit-and-forget units, and not ruinously expensive.

As discussed here last year, MSF reception doesn't work well near overhead lines. The Network Southeast digital clocks used an antenna on the highest part of the station, so installing a radio-controlled clock in a station is not a trivial and cheap matter.

Incidentally, the Network Rail / RIBA clock design competition seems to have gone quiet after 4 teams were shortlisted in the autumn, but its existence shows that the OP's position that we don't have enough clocks on the railway is shared by Network Rail.

 

[WideRanger]

Tokyo station has an analogue clock, as this Streetview image shows. https://maps.app.goo.gl/Uz7qR9CR6JYGnRCe9

 

[AndrewE]

There are very simple rugged sealed electric mechanisms available to drive analogue clock hands today, highly accurate with radio synchronisation built in. They're virtually maintenance-free, fit-and-forget units, and not ruinously expensive.

I suspect that when you scale it up to run a clock with hands several feet in length then you get issues with an auxiliary power supply and servos to do the real work...

 

[Dr Hoo]

I suspect that when you scale it up to run a clock with hands several feet in length then you get issues with an auxiliary power supply and servos to do the real work...

Quite. The nice art deco analogue clock on the Northern Concourse at Leeds being a recent case in point.

 

[najaB]

I suspect that when you scale it up to run a clock with hands several feet in length then you get issues with an auxiliary power supply and servos to do the real work...

Perhaps one of these then?

698K views · 36K likes | Unitedkingdom daily on Instagram: "For anyone who wants to see something unique, go check out this clock outside Paddington Station in London. It will blow your mind Created by Dutch artist Maarten Baas, just outside of Pa

36K likes, 603 comments - unitedkingdom_daily on June 14, 2023: "For anyone who wants to see something unique, go check out this clock outside Paddington Station in London. It will blow your mind �...".

www.instagram.com

Link to Instagram post showing a video-based analogue clock.

 

[AndrewE]

Perhaps one of these then?

698K views · 36K likes | Unitedkingdom daily on Instagram: "For anyone who wants to see something unique, go check out this clock outside Paddington Station in London. It will blow your mind Created by Dutch artist Maarten Baas, just outside of Pa

36K likes, 603 comments - unitedkingdom_daily on June 14, 2023: "For anyone who wants to see something unique, go check out this clock outside Paddington Station in London. It will blow your mind �...".

www.instagram.com

Link to Instagram post showing a video-based analogue clock.

I like it... but why don't they just let him move the hand? It would be a nice touch, he could do other things during alternate hours I suppose. Maybe act out a "seconds hand" sweeping round too?

 

[NSE]

2 hours and nobody has yet pointed out that digital clocks have no moving parts and are therefore much cheaper! (unless they are heritage Solari equipment.) They are easier to keep to correct time too - Liverpool Lime St this is you!

Abroad they will realise that the analogue clock gives almost everyone an immediate mental picture/awareness of the time, here in the UK we only look at the first cost of providing an indicator of time - which requires every user to absorb and process the number then subtract it from the (digital) number of the departure time.
With an analogue clock (assuming you can tell the time) you just look at it and subconsciously know how long until your train departs.

Of course a clock with moving parts is more expensive to buy, run and maintain, which is why they are generally only to be found at "heritage" or listed UK stations. You get what you pay for!

I disagree with your somewhat sweeping assumption. I don’t get the same response from analogue time that you do. My mental picture of time is entirely based around digital time and digital clocks. I prefer digital clocks as they give me a precise time. If it’s 14:19, I can probably just make the 14:21, but if it’s 14:20, I won’t make it past the top of the escalator in time.

As someone who spent significant time working with kids and who has dyslexic family, not everyone can use analogue clocks, and not due to ignorance and laziness (though there are some for sure!). To have both would be lovely, but if it had to just be one, I think digital is by far the better choice.

Don’t get me wrong, I get the visual appeal of the big grand clocks, but for day to day use, I find digital far easier.

 

[MarkyT]

Perhaps one of these then?

698K views · 36K likes | Unitedkingdom daily on Instagram: "For anyone who wants to see something unique, go check out this clock outside Paddington Station in London. It will blow your mind Created by Dutch artist Maarten Baas, just outside of Pa

36K likes, 603 comments - unitedkingdom_daily on June 14, 2023: "For anyone who wants to see something unique, go check out this clock outside Paddington Station in London. It will blow your mind �...".

www.instagram.com

Link to Instagram post showing a video-based analogue clock.

I suspect that device would likely use more power than turning the hands of a conventional analogue rotary clock of a similar size, although any associated lighting would be an extra load. Clearly the bigger the clock the more power needed but there are machines available from several suppliers that could no doubt fit the bill, including this bad boy from the USA which claims to handle up to a 50 ft diameter dial! https://www.natsco.net/architectural-clocks/products/12m

As discussed here last year, MSF reception doesn't work well near overhead lines. The Network Southeast digital clocks used an antenna on the highest part of the station, so installing a radio-controlled clock in a station is not a trivial and cheap matter.

Once set up though after a radio survey and maybe with extra antennas, it should be little trouble to maintain. Rotaries no doubt have fewer moving parts than those segment clocks. Might be better to synchronise via internet time if that was possible as that could be a nice screened wired connection.

Incidentally, the Network Rail / RIBA clock design competition seems to have gone quiet after 4 teams were shortlisted in the autumn, but its existence shows that the OP's position that we don't have enough clocks on the railway is shared by Network Rail.

Oh good! On the broader public clock issue it really grates to see stopped or wrong clocks. I'd rather they weren't there to be honest. I know we all carry our own personal time on numerous devices today but until someone's beaming a laser heads-up display straight into my eyeball, there's little quicker or more convenient than catching a glimpse of the time on a big public clock (whether analogue or digital) just as you enter a building where time is important, like a station or workplace.

 

[Basil Jet]

Tokyo station has an analogue clock, as this Streetview image shows. https://maps.app.goo.gl/Uz7qR9CR6JYGnRCe9

Roman numerals in Tokyo? I did not expect that.

 

[NoRoute]

Incidentally, the Network Rail / RIBA clock design competition seems to have gone quiet after 4 teams were shortlisted in the autumn, but its existence shows that the OP's position that we don't have enough clocks on the railway is shared by Network Rail.

Playing devils advocate, back in the Victorian and Edwardian era clocks at stations, factories and public buildings were common because pocket watches were expensive, not universally owned, potentially inaccurate and so most people needed public clocks to know what the time was. But today, almost everyone now carries either a wrist watch, a mobile phone or a smart watch and additionally most station platforms now have lots of information boards with the time and at the platform level, live arrival/departure signage displaying the next trains, expected arrival and the current time.

It begs the question, what is the purpose of a station clock? Is it to provide the time, or is it as an architectural element, to improve the aesthetics and appearance of the station but now largely redundant as to its original purpose?

 

[NSE]

I tend to find from my own observations that the only analogue clocks at stations are the big, ornate, listed type ones. The sort that have been there for years and won’t be removed. Like virtually everyone, I have a smart phone and, like many, I have a smart watch. So they’re of no use to me.

 

[AndrewE]

I disagree with your somewhat sweeping assumption. I don’t get the same response from analogue time that you do. My mental picture of time is entirely based around digital time and digital clocks. I prefer digital clocks as they give me a precise time. If it’s 14:19, I can probably just make the 14:21, but if it’s 14:20, I won’t make it past the top of the escalator in time.

As someone who spent significant time working with kids and who has dyslexic family, not everyone can use analogue clocks, and not due to ignorance and laziness (though there are some for sure!). To have both would be lovely, but if it had to just be one, I think digital is by far the better choice.

Don’t get me wrong, I get the visual appeal of the big grand clocks, but for day to day use, I find digital far easier.

I think you are missing the point that to get the time from a digital display you have to a) read the number then b) understand it and c) compare it with / convert it to what the current ordinary time is (out of 24.60) Maybe we are seeing the consequences of another step-change in technologies. Maybe dyslexics are ahead of the rest in this area, but I'm not sure that losing analogue clocks really is in the interests of the majority.

In our history you heard the parish clock chime once an hour (if you were close enough) otherwise you had to rely on your own judgment (and study/knowledge of the sun/sky) After thate if you were rich enough you had an analogue watch, again relatively understandable even if you were basically illiterate.
I am certain that the moving hand of an analogue clock is more accessable to more people than bare numbers are.

 

[NSE]

I think you are missing the point that to get the time from a digital display you have to a) read the number then b) understand it and c) compare it with / convert it to what the current ordinary time is (out of 24.60) Maybe we are seeing the consequences of another step-change in technologies. Maybe dyslexics are ahead of the rest in this area, but I'm not sure that losing analogue clocks really is in the interests of the majority.

In our history you heard the parish clock chime once an hour (if you were close enough) otherwise you had to rely on your own judgment (and study/knowledge of the sun/sky) After thate if you were rich enough you had an analogue watch, again relatively understandable even if you were basically illiterate.
I am certain that the moving hand of an analogue clock is more accessable to more people than bare numbers are.

No I get your point. I just disagree.

My point is that your assuming everyone is like you. I’m not entirely sure what you’re getting with ‘read the number’ and ‘convert it’ etc, if I read 16:34 on my watch, or the PIS or the big destination screen, then I know it’s 16:34. Nothing more, nothing less. If my train is 16:36, I have two minutes.

I appreciate people of an older generation prefer analogue, and I wouldn’t suggest removing it. But the picture you paint of the parish clock is very archaic. Times change (the irony!) and my personal opinion is that more people use digital than analogue.

 

[johnnychips]

No I get your point. I just disagree.

My point is that your assuming everyone is like you. I’m not entirely sure what you’re getting with ‘read the number’ and ‘convert it’ etc, if I read 16:34 on my watch, or the PIS or the big destination screen, then I know it’s 16:34. Nothing more, nothing less. If my train is 16:36, I have two minutes.

I appreciate people of an older generation prefer analogue, and I wouldn’t suggest removing it. But the picture you paint of the parish clock is very archaic. Times change (the irony!) and my personal opinion is that more people use digital than analogue.

I read the time like you, and I’m of ‘the older generation’. The beautiful clock on Doncaster station has been two minutes slow for almost a year now, and the one at Sheffield station, next to the Tap, works in fits and starts.
I teach SEN students, and dyslexic (understandable) and autistic (not-so-understandable) students who are otherwise OK with maths often really struggle with analogue clocks.

 

[Bevan Price]

Playing devils advocate, back in the Victorian and Edwardian era clocks at stations, factories and public buildings were common because pocket watches were expensive, not universally owned, potentially inaccurate and so most people needed public clocks to know what the time was. But today, almost everyone now carries either a wrist watch, a mobile phone or a smart watch and additionally most station platforms now have lots of information boards with the time and at the platform level, live arrival/departure signage displaying the next trains, expected arrival and the current time.

It begs the question, what is the purpose of a station clock? Is it to provide the time, or is it as an architectural element, to improve the aesthetics and appearance of the station but now largely redundant as to its original purpose?

Yes, even up to the early 1960s, only about 25% of people could afford any watch - and included many rail staff. Since then, a lot of public clocks have disappeared, no longer being considered essential. Even many small stations had public clocks - many of which "disappeared" when station buildings were made redundant, with waiting rooms replaced by bus "shelters" (not that some of them give much shelter.)