Antisocial behaviour on trains

[trainophile]

A pair of Soundpeats Q35 are around 20 to 30 quid, high quality and are bluetooth. The tiny wire connects the two earbuds and can comfortably wrap around you.

There really is no excuse for the playing out loud of music/tiktoks. It is quite literally a 'Breach of the Peace'

If they won't pay a fiver for a ticket they're not going to buy £20-£30 earphones just on the basis that they will make life less unpleasant for their fellow passengers.

 

[bramling]

I experienced a family having a very loud (and very banal and repetitive) conversation at one end of a coach on the Watercress Line that was irritatingly audible at the other end where I was sitting. I mentioned this to someone and he had what was probably the answer; some families have so much background noise in their homes from various devices that they get into the habit of shouting at each other to be heard, and carry the habit into public spaces Sounds plausible.

Yes one does shudder at the thought of living next door to some of these sorts of people…

 

[Andyh82]

I think it is now pretty normal for the ‘Gen Z’ age group to do everything on their phones out loud, I just don’t think they know any different.

Rather than holding their phone to their ear so they can hear the person they’ve rung, they immediately turn the call to loud speaker, or even worse a badly distorted FaceTime call, where they can barely hear the caller.

I was on a train yesterday and someone opposite was on a call on loud speaker with someone else on a different train, so I had all the general train noise from the train I was on, plus all the noise and announcements from the one the caller was on. (I was on Northern, I could hear the caller was on GWR!)

 

[Zamracene749]

I'm another proponent of louder (noisier) trains. One of the most hateful things about many public transport trips is intrusively loud other passengers.
Everbody knows this. Especially the intrusively loud people.
No amount of discussion about headphones or common courtesy is going to change them. These are rude, self entitled types, that think they are tougher/more important than everybody else.
Sorry engineers, but ease off that search for a silent magic carpet ride, i'd sooner listen to flange squeal and wind noise than some 16 year wannabe gangsta MMA legend or some bloated ego Rupert droning on to his captive secretary.

 

[trainophile]

I think it is now pretty normal for the ‘Gen Z’ age group to do everything on their phones out loud, I just don’t think they know any different.

Rather than holding their phone to their ear so they can hear the person they’ve rung, they immediately turn the call to loud speaker, or even worse a badly distorted FaceTime call, where they can barely hear the caller.

I was on a train yesterday and someone opposite was on a call on loud speaker with someone else on a different train, so I had all the general train noise from the train I was on, plus all the noise and announcements from the one the caller was on. (I was on Northern, I could hear the caller was on GWR!)

It's the same mindset as feet on seats. Too damn lazy to hold the phone to their ear, and likewise to keep their feet on the floor. Entitled little brats most of them, and some of them not so little. I despair.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm another proponent of louder (noisier) trains. One of the most hateful things about many public transport trips is intrusively loud other passengers.
Everbody knows this. Especially the intrusively loud people.
No amount of discussion about headphones or common courtesy is going to change them. These are rude, self entitled types, that think they are tougher/more important than everybody else.
Sorry engineers, but ease off that search for a silent magic carpet ride, i'd sooner listen to flange squeal and wind noise than some 16 year wannabe gangsta MMA legend or some bloated ego Rupert droning on to his captive secretary.

Fortunately for you, the Class 80x aircon makes an utter racket.

 

[RailWonderer]

Society in general is far less respectful than even 20 years ago, including on trains, on the roads, in shops and other walks of life. Too many people worship the cult of me me me and no one else figures into it.

 

[Thirteen]

I do think it's a myth that everyone was polite to each other in the past.

 

[trainophile]

I do think it's a myth that everyone was polite to each other in the past.

Depends on how and where you were brought up I suppose. I certainly feel things have gone downhill as regards respect for your fellow citizens. There are still some genuinely nice, decent people around, but they are now sadly a minority whereas in my dim and distant past it was the "done thing" to consider others.

 

[WestCoast]

I do think it's a myth that everyone was polite to each other in the past.

Maybe not but technology and standards of behaviour have changed. Many parents now let their kids watch stuff on phones and tablets out loud in public. Heck even members of my own family let their kids do stuff like that. Therefore I think that sort of thing will be entirely normal in the future unfortunately.

 

[AlastairFraser]

I think it is now pretty normal for the ‘Gen Z’ age group to do everything on their phones out loud, I just don’t think they know any different.

Rather than holding their phone to their ear so they can hear the person they’ve rung, they immediately turn the call to loud speaker, or even worse a badly distorted FaceTime call, where they can barely hear the caller.

I was on a train yesterday and someone opposite was on a call on loud speaker with someone else on a different train, so I had all the general train noise from the train I was on, plus all the noise and announcements from the one the caller was on. (I was on Northern, I could hear the caller was on GWR!)

It's not exclusively a young person thing! Unfortunately the middle aged drunks on Friday and weekend evenings on Northern's network also consider this sort of behaviour and worse normal...

 

[trainophile]

It's a pity the guards are too intimidated, or powerless, to ask miscreants to behave. I've seen guards walk right past people with their feet blatantly on a seat and say nothing.

 

[Zamracene749]

Fortunately for you, the Class 80x aircon makes an utter racket.

Win win for me, I hate being too hot as well I'd still sooner be in a Mk2a though. With a sixties locomotive in front.

 

[bramling]

I do think it's a myth that everyone was polite to each other in the past.

Whilst not disagreeing with the above, there’s been a massive slide in respect for “people in authority” over the last 25 years.

In the 90s it would have been atypical to brazen it out with, for example, railway staff. Not unheard of by any means, but certainly comparatively unusual. Now it’s absolutely legion, especially in urban areas.

I can’t help but add my feelings that it really hasn’t helped that we recently had a Prime Minister who has visibly exhibited the behaviours of someone who “does whatever I want”. He set an absolutely atrocious example, just at the worst possible time. I’m sure I don’t need to name him.

 

[Russel]

It's a pity the guards are too intimidated, or powerless, to ask miscreants to behave. I've seen guards walk right past people with their feet blatantly on a seat and say nothing.

Problem is, you don't know how people will react and what they are carrying...

 

[satisnek]

The guy described in the OP would have been my cue to say, "You should know better at your age!" I've yet to have this opportunity but I'm sure it won't be long!

Seriously, this is becoming 'mainstream' and not limited to low-end 'Gen Z' raised by parents who received insufficient discipline when they were kids (that's the problem). People of all ages and backgrounds go 'tiss tiss tiss' in the pub these days. If somebody tries to show me a 'video' I can only say "I'm sorry, but that's just a silly noise to me."

A recent memorable experience for me was not on a train, but on the bus. I heard the scratchy noise of a smartphone close behind me, and looking around I saw a completely respectable- and intelligent-looking bespectacled black girl (probably a student or an office worker). I wasn't sure what to say, it was as much as I could do to blurt out, "Is that you making that noise?" Thankfully she was respectable, etc. and turned it off, but it was the fact that she thought that it was OK to do this in the first place which shocked me.

 

[Alanko]

Interesting thread. Is it uncharitable or ableist to postulate that a good number of users of this forum are neurodivergent and therefore more sensitive to perceived deviations from rules around decorum than neurotypical people? I try and sympathise, but the notion that we are witnessing the result of a wave of teenage pregnancies is fairly risible.


I'm in Portugal, and a lot of the valid complaints/pearl clutching in this thread is just as true here. Poor queuing etiquette, feet on seats, speakerphone usage, FaceTime usage, plus smoking in stations, passengers crossing from one platform to the other over the tracks, blatant fare evasion, etc.

 

[bramling]

Interesting thread. Is it uncharitable or ableist to postulate that a good number of users of this forum are neurodivergent and therefore more sensitive to perceived deviations from rules around decorum than neurotypical people? I try and sympathise, but the notion that we are witnessing the result of a wave of teenage pregnancies is fairly risible.


I'm in Portugal, and a lot of the valid complaints/pearl clutching in this thread is just as true here. Poor queuing etiquette, feet on seats, speakerphone usage, FaceTime usage, plus smoking in stations, passengers crossing from one platform to the other over the tracks, blatant fare evasion, etc.

I’d say the premise of the thread isn’t so much that it happens, but that it’s got a lot worse.

Any frontline railway staff will say they’ve experienced the same. The standard of behaviour on the railway has become absolutely dire, antisocial behaviour on trains is just one part of that. There’s been a steady increase in all forms of trouble over recent years.

One operator is now about to mandate that all passenger-facing staff wear body cameras. I suspect they won’t be the only one.

 

[DM352]

Not just staff for body cameras, passengers may need them too like we do in cars and they are getting cheaper on Amazon now.

I sure miss corridor trains instead of the open plan ones we get now as they are noisy with nothing to dampen other folks noise. When I used to commute refular by train, used to find the carriage with traction motors which helped.

 

[baz962]

Whilst not disagreeing with the above, there’s been a massive slide in respect for “people in authority” over the last 25 years.

In the 90s it would have been atypical to brazen it out with, for example, railway staff. Not unheard of by any means, but certainly comparatively unusual. Now it’s absolutely legion, especially in urban areas.

I can’t help but add my feelings that it really hasn’t helped that we recently had a Prime Minister who has visibly exhibited the behaviours of someone who “does whatever I want”. He set an absolutely atrocious example, just at the worst possible time. I’m sure I don’t need to name him.

Respect for authority seems to have gone down as we as a society have deemed that respect from authority means people in authority have to treat us with kid gloves. When I was a young man , police officers for example had to be quite tall and there used to be a height restriction and you knew that they wouldn't be a pushover. Now youngsters know you can't touch them , well and so called adults. Even on this very forum we see people call security rent a thugs and that people in customer service shouldn't talk to people in anything over than a soft polite voice. Unfortunately that means that if you need someone to comply with you over feet on seats or vaping or loud noise and they know you can't even raise your voice let alone touch them , what can you do.

 

[londonbridge]

Yes, agree that behaviour and respect for authority has declined, not just on trains but on buses as well, with drivers and conductors not bothering to enforce the rules for various reasons documented elsewhere in the thread. I’ve noticed when the bus gets full I see more and more people standing on the top deck on double deckers, as well as standing/sitting on the stairs, neither of which is allowed, and nothing is done, yet if the bus had to make an emergency stop and the person on the stairs fell down and was injured, no doubt they’d be the first to complain.

 

[stuu]

Respect for authority seems to have gone down as we as a society have deemed that respect from authority means people in authority have to treat us with kid gloves. When I was a young man , police officers for example had to be quite tall and there used to be a height restriction and you knew that they wouldn't be a pushover. Now youngsters know you can't touch them , well and so called adults. Even on this very forum we see people call security rent a thugs and that people in customer service shouldn't talk to people in anything over than a soft polite voice. Unfortunately that means that if you need someone to comply with you over feet on seats or vaping or loud noise and they know you can't even raise your voice let alone touch them , what can you do.

"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers."

Socrates, ~500BC

 

[contrex]

when Gordon Brown was Chancellor in the late 1990s he was throwing money at people to have as many children as they could, with flats and benefits thrown in and no need to work.

Are you serious?

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's a pity the guards are too intimidated, or powerless, to ask miscreants to behave. I've seen guards walk right past people with their feet blatantly on a seat and say nothing.

Merseyrail's "zero tolerance" approach with "rentathugs" does seem to work even if it doesn't have a friendly feel. Perhaps TOCs should concentrate on prosecuting people for ASB instead of for minor ticketing issues.

Interesting thread. Is it uncharitable or ableist to postulate that a good number of users of this forum are neurodivergent and therefore more sensitive to perceived deviations from rules around decorum than neurotypical people? I try and sympathise, but the notion that we are witnessing the result of a wave of teenage pregnancies is fairly risible.

There'll be elements of that, but I very much doubt playing some trashy kids TV out loud on a tablet is pleasant for anyone. (Though I suppose autism does increase noise sensitivity).

 

[Meerkat]

Zero tolerance with lots of fines seems a win win - attract more passengers with a nicer environment and raise money. But then the ludicrous fuss when councils did it for littering and dog fouling suggests it won’t fly.
I really don’t get the phone on loudspeaker - I’m sure it’s less comfortable/more effort than holding it to your ear.
It’s notable how there is a direct correlation between people wanting to share their music with the general public and them having terrible taste in music.

 

[bleeder4]

It's a shame that train companies can't use jamming technology to block this sort of thing. I would actually pay more money to travel on a train in which it was physically impossible to get any kind of internet signal at all.

 

[ThameslinkUser]

I would actually pay more money to travel on a train in which it was physically impossible to get any kind of internet signal at all.

You'd have to pay more money as you'd be covering the entire costs of railway operations yourself. Nobody else would travel if it were like that, especially on the profitable commuter lines.

 

[irp]

I think some people have become so accustomed to playing music and having phone conversations on their devices in public, that they're no longer aware of others around them. Perhaps the thing I get most fed up with is "Hello, can you hear me? . . . Can you hear me? . . . Can you hear me?" and I've begun to to say out loud, "Yes." At least it might make them aware that what they think is a private call is actually a very public one, not that it ever seems to make them stop.

Any phone call made on public transport isn't private, unless it's in a toilet.

This.

I find it hilarious and frustratating when I hear the "Can you hear me" refrain when were in the middle of a tunnel...Physics guys......I make very few phone calls on trains - esp if I am travelling on Business. I hear loads of calls [both sides in many cases] and think "I would not be having that discussion is a public forum"

 

[Deepgreen]

It's a pity the guards are too intimidated, or powerless, to ask miscreants to behave. I've seen guards walk right past people with their feet blatantly on a seat and say nothing.

Or busy...

What it comes down to is that people seem less and less willing to put others straight for fear of recriminations. That feeds on itself and has no end. I'm fairly large so obviously find it less of a problem than some, but even so it is now seemingly the norm to 'mind your own business' - of course, it IS my business when it affects me... I'm also aware that by wearing my own buds to blot others out is not tackling the problem, but it really depends on my mood!

 

[AverageJoe]

I remember teenage pregnancies being a hot topic in the early 2000s so I do wonder with the kids we are now dealing with is a generation of children being raised by children.

On the whole morals are declining and that is passed on to the next generation and then they further water down morals.

I live fairly close to an area that is considered to be not so wealthy, unless you class the few in high end cars that dress in tracksuits, always cover their faces, smell of weed but somehow seem to be wealthy… I wonder how. Anyway my point being I see some mothers pushing babies in prams, the mums are screaming at the kids and swearing constantly at them, the mothers spit on the street as they walk and then anyone that dares look at them are threatened with being sparked out… you can only imagine what upbringing they had themselves, but then it’s even worse to imagine the upbringing and the influences the kid in the pram will be surrounded by.