Any ideas for Micro Open Access?

[route:oxford]

There are a number of Open Access operators throughout the UK, most of them are "Inter-city" routes and services.

Is there any potential for a "Micro" open-access operation?

The service that immediately springs to mind would be an open access shuttle between Leamington Spa & Coventry.

I appreciate that there are pathing limitations on the network at this point, but it always strikes me as a touch bizarre that there is just one option per hour for all passengers on the Reading-Banbury and Marylebone routes to reach Birmingham International.

 

[Wath Yard]

This has been discussed several times. No. OAOs don't get subsidy and therefore are only viable on routes with reasonably high fares. London fares are priced at a premium which is why OAOs serve it. The return fare from Leamington - Coventry is £4.90. How many passengers would be required to pay the drivers, track access charges, train lease charges, maintenance contracts? Probably more than the combined population of Leamington and Coventry.

 

[tbtc]

I've seen some "interesting" ideas for Open Access (usually involving linking two random places via an underused chord), but you're proposing an Open Access operation on a line that currently has a direct service?

And a single track line with freight where there's no space for any more trains at the moment (hence XC sending their "other" Reading service via the Soluhill route)?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

And a single track line with freight where there's no space for any more trains at the moment (hence XC sending their "other" Reading service via the Soluhill route)?

From what I've read in the past, I believe XC are very eager to get the Newcastle-Reading trains routed via Coventry (i.e. no more via Solihull trains at all) - I can't remember what's holding it back, but I think it was paths between New St and Coventry and not the single south thereof, though I'm sure The Planner would be able to confirm for us.

IIRC despite the two calls it takes the same amount of time via Coventry as it does non-stop via Solihull, and obviously there's probably quite a bit of money to be had along the Leamington Spa-Coventry-New St corridor.

 

[Eagle]

When it's electrified the Milverton to Kenilworth section will be redoubled, but not the Kenilworth to Gibbet Hill bit. That might add more paths (which will probably instantly be taken by XC, and possibly whoever ends up running a service to the planned station in Kenilworth).

 

[MidnightFlyer]

It's been chopped and changed so many times now, but with Nuneaton-Coventry-Leamington's electrification, is there any chance of a half-hourly (or hourly) direct local service between the three? I can't remember if it was ever officially proposed or just one of the many fantasies we get on here

The above is certainly something I would like to see happen though, it would also remove the 'burden' of slowing down XC services even more to serve Kenilworth (sorry, I don't think it justifies inter-city services!), as well as improving connectivity through Warks.

 

[tbtc]

From what I've read in the past, I believe XC are very eager to get the Newcastle-Reading trains routed via Coventry (i.e. no more via Solihull trains at all) - I can't remember what's holding it back, but I think it was paths between New St and Coventry and not the single south thereof, though I'm sure The Planner would be able to confirm for us.

IIRC despite the two calls it takes the same amount of time via Coventry as it does non-stop via Solihull, and obviously there's probably quite a bit of money to be had along the Leamington Spa-Coventry-New St corridor.

I suppose it could be that XC path the two services to take the same length of time to ensure that the departures from Birmingham/ Oxford/ Reading are spread apart/ to allow them to run trains via either route if required - just a thought.

I appreciate the well documented reasons for the cutting back of XC ambitions, but Soluhull always seemed like a sensible place for them to tap into (it always gets forgotten when people discuss places no longer served by XC like Liverpool/ Portsmouth/ Brighton though)
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It's been chopped and changed so many times now, but with Nuneaton-Coventry-Leamington's electrification, is there any chance of a half-hourly (or hourly) direct local service between the three?

I think one problem is crossing the busy New Street - Rugby line on the flat at Coventry

 

[Eagle]

It's been chopped and changed so many times now, but with Nuneaton-Coventry-Leamington's electrification, is there any chance of a half-hourly (or hourly) direct local service between the three? I can't remember if it was ever officially proposed or just one of the many fantasies we get on here

It was officially proposed by Warks CC (as NUCKLE), but there's basically no way you could get the two halves of the service to run through as there's limited capacity at Coventry.

Council's current idea is to up LM's Nuneaton to Coventry to half-hourly terminating in a new bay platform north of p1 at Coventry (new stations at Bermuda Park and Coventry Arena, the exact site of the latter being unsure due to nearby chemical works, also you might need to lengthen platforms at Bedworth to accommodate an EMU), and to drop Kenilworth calls into a half-hourly XC service.

Kenilworth station was granted planning permission in April 2011, but was suspended due to lack of funds; however since the announcement of electrification and potential double-tracking it might need to be redone.

 

[route:oxford]

Any other suggestions for a "micro-franchise"?

 

[Jollycam]

I appreciate the well documented reasons for the cutting back of XC ambitions, but Soluhull always seemed like a sensible place for them to tap into

From my experience, I hardly saw anyone get on/off the train at Solihull (with the exception of Solihull travellers going to Birmingham - who would just get on the first train) and was surprised Virgin persevered with a service stopping there for as long as they did.

 

[The Planner]

Digressing from the topic title, there is lots of stuff going on behind the scenes with Cov - Nuneaton and Kenilworth station, but expect them to be treated as two separate entities from what I hear. As for XC, the second train via Cov is something they would probably give up a finger for. I'm far from convinced XC would want to stop at Kenilworth though.

 

[Eagle]

I'm far from convinced XC would want to stop at Kenilworth though.

I think it's more a case of "someone's got to". (Just hope it doesn't mean that there'll be a token one call per day.)

 

[dvboy]

I think it's more a case of "someone's got to". (Just hope it doesn't mean that there'll be a token one call per day.)

It'll be like Coleshill Parkway and Water Orton. Places that would have more trains call if they were on London Midland operated lines, but suffer because XC don't really want to stop there, so provide a service they can get away with.

 

[Eagle]

All XC services through Coleshill call.

 

[dvboy]

Do they? Didn't think they did but I'm probably thinking of Wilnecote.

Water Orton gets a bad deal at certain times of the day.

 

[Eagle]

Do they? Didn't think they did but I'm probably thinking of Wilnecote.

Does Wilnecote really deserve anything more than it gets, being as it's a stone's throw away from Tamworth's other, larger station?

 

[Ivo]

Any other suggestions for a "micro-franchise"?

Walsall to Wolverhampton, with a station thrown in at Willenhall, is the best I can come up with. And passenger services on that route were stopped for a good reason - one which might hit profits somewhat...

 

[D841 Roebuck]

Micro Open Access would be good for the WCML.

Just take your Asda Value Meal For One/Baking Potato/Cheese'n'Jam Buttie along to the Pendo's buffet car, and exchange your pre-paid token for a couple of minutes of radioactive bombardment.

(First Class passengers could have free use of the rotating spit thingie).

 

[LexyBoy]

Very good

How are the preserved lines' attempts to start a commuter service going? I know the Watercress line's not had much luck with their Reliant Robin on rails, but I remember the Swanage railway (?) had some luck with its shoppers services.

I would expect preserved lines to be more successful in running a small non-franchised service, as they'd not have the access fees or leasing costs of an OAO, and have no (rail) competition. Wonder if a service running from a preserved line to a mainline hub could work? Wallingford to Paddington anyone?
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Very good

How are the preserved lines' attempts to start a commuter service going? I know the Watercress line's not had much luck with their Reliant Robin on rails, but I remember the Swanage railway (?) had some luck with its shoppers services.

I would expect preserved lines to be more successful in running a small non-franchised service, as they'd not have the access fees or leasing costs of an OAO, and have no (rail) competition. Wonder if a service running from a preserved line to a mainline hub could work? Wallingford to Paddington/Reading anyone?

 

[DarloRich]

There are a number of Open Access operators throughout the UK, most of them are "Inter-city" routes and services.

Is there any potential for a "Micro" open-access operation?

The service that immediately springs to mind would be an open access shuttle between Leamington Spa & Coventry.

I appreciate that there are pathing limitations on the network at this point, but it always strikes me as a touch bizarre that there is just one option per hour for all passengers on the Reading-Banbury and Marylebone routes to reach Birmingham International.

No there isnt any potential. My view would be not to bother. There is no money in it.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

I appreciate the well documented reasons for the cutting back of XC ambitions, but Soluhull always seemed like a sensible place for them to tap into (it always gets forgotten when people discuss places no longer served by XC like Liverpool/ Portsmouth/ Brighton though)

When they did stop at Solihull all that happened is that the trains were used as an extra service into Birmingham or Leamington Spa and Solihull has good connections to both of those places anyway.
Birmingham International really isnt that far from Solihull and a lot of people who live along the A45 corridor who would gravitate towards Solihull as their local station are about the same distance from International. It's a bit further if you are in Solihull town centre or further south, but even then bus links to International are good and bus/rail connections into central Birmingham are so ridiculously frequent that people seem happy just to go there and get on XC services at New Street, even if there is a bit of doubling back.
It's not really like XC pulling out of Liverpool/Portsmouth/Brighton at all.

 

[Deerfold]

Any OA attempts to run a service between stations that are already served by another operator without some significant new links provided is likely to fail the revenue abstraction test and not be approved (some of the current OA operators may actually be getting a lot of their income from revenue abstraction, but they managed to convince that their business case did not depend on this).

 

[swt_passenger]

Very good

How are the preserved lines' attempts to start a commuter service going? I know the Watercress line's not had much luck with their Reliant Robin on rails...

It wasn't being proposed by the Watercress line though was it? It was that 'GO co-op' or something similar who were organising it, I think the heritage people were just renting out their track.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Any other suggestions for a "micro-franchise"?

How about this wild idea:

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=1258729&postcount=13

 

[LexyBoy]

Oh yes that's right- still, the reduced costs should still apply.

 

[The Ham]

It wasn't being proposed by the Watercress line though was it? It was that 'GO co-op' or something similar who were organising it, I think the heritage people were just renting out their track.

It was, but those plans seam to have been shelved, but they are due to start a new service:

Mainline Rail - on our flagship Westbury to Birmingham Moor Street service, provisionally due to start in spring 2014, we have managed to develop a plan for a clockface timetable using brand new rolling stock.

check out their website for details of their projects:
http://www.go-op.coop/plans/

How about this wild idea:

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=1258729&postcount=13

I have written to the council, to ask them to re-instate a public rail link to connect Yeovil Junction to Yeovil Penmill.

I think the more people ask for this service to be re-instated, the more likely this will happen. It will totally make using the rail access easier if we can get to Yeovil Junction from the town eh?!

One way around that would be to electrify from Basingstoke to Yeovil Junction (if the business case to Exeter isn't good enough). Then run the services on the line between Yeovil Junction and Waterloo as EMU's and have a DMU service which ran from Westbury to Exeter via Yeovil Penmill and Yeovil Junction (comparable time to many of the GW services between the two) which met the London service. With the return doing the reverse (DMU from Exeter meeting the EMU before it heads back to London).

It does mean a walk across the platform for those passengers going to Exeter from east of Yeovil Junction, but with a reduced journey time (faster acceleration & possible faster top speed) of the EMU's the short amount of extra time for the chance could still result in no increase in trip time from Salisbury to Exeter (would also impact fewer people than a change at Salisbury if electrification stopped there).

 

[The Planner]

It was, but those plans seam to have been shelved, but they are due to start a new service:

Will believe it when I see it, no contact made with us at all for aspirational paths or owt that I have seen or heard of.

 

[Lee_Again]

OK. Here we go.

This one would require a new chord that allows down trains from Stansted to join the branch and head towards Royston.

If you ran a King's Cross > Finsbury Park > Welwyn Garden City > Stevenage > Hitchin > Letchworth > Royston > Stansted service I'm sure it would be very well used.

Those mid herts stations serve a huge population and links from them to Stansted are very poor. The A120 road is often very busy and the bus links are worse.

A 40 minute journey from Stevenage would be most welcome.

 

[Deerfold]

OK. Here we go.

This one would require a new chord that allows down trains from Stansted to join the branch and head towards Royston.

If you ran a King's Cross > Finsbury Park > Welwyn Garden City > Stevenage > Hitchin > Letchworth > Royston > Stansted service I'm sure it would be very well used.

Probably - but good luck finding any spare paths from Hitchin south. Would probably fall foul of the revenue abstraction rules too as almost all the service would mirror FCC services.

 

[Lee_Again]

Probably - but good luck finding any spare paths from Hitchin south. Would probably fall foul of the revenue abstraction rules too as almost all the service would mirror FCC services.

I know. It would be good though. May be it could be routed via Hertford.

If they ever built that line from Luton to Stevenage then it would be a new route (so no abstraction and no paths across the viaduct needed) joining Luton Airport to Stansted Airport. Surely there's some value in that??

 

[Deerfold]

I know. It would be good though. May be it could be routed via Hertford.

If they ever built that line from Luton to Stevenage then it would be a new route (so no abstraction and no paths across the viaduct needed) joining Luton Airport to Stansted Airport. Surely there's some value in that??

I suspect anything involving new track being laid will be used by an existing or new TOC rather than by an OA operator - a Luton - Stevenage - Standsted line would most likely be run by FCC so there would be no problems with revenue abstraction.