Any possibility of Carnforth station West Coast Mainline platforms re-opening?

[deltic08]

Wikipedia suggests May 1970 as the closure date of the main line platforms (following closure of Milnthorpe, Tebay and Shap on 1/7/68). I'm afraid that my records are very thin after the mid-sixties.

Carnforth main line platforms closed at the end of the Winter 1969/70 timetable on 3rd May 1970.

The last train to stop for passengers on the Down platform was a returning class 40 hauled enthusiasts charter from Edinburgh on 9th May 1970.

There are some good photos showing both mainline platforms on Railscot. Just google Railscot photos of Carnforth.

The ones of 4468 taken from a road overbridge by David Spaven shows what we are talking of very well. I was standing on the north end of the Up platform on the same day.

The photo of two class 90s northbound on the china clay tanks taken 20-1-2016 is taken from what was the Up platform entrance. More platform was removed than I remembered.

 

[randyrippley]

As I posted in another thread, if WCRC does close, then there is the chance of clearing the scrapyard otherwise known as Steamtown, building a new pair of platforms serving the WCML on the sidings parallel to the WCML south of the current station (retaining fast through lines) and using the rest of the released space as car parking for a new park and ride.
Carnforth is ideally placed to serve as a park and ride for commuter traffic from the South Lakes to Preston and Manchester. It has better road access than Lancaster, Oxenholme or Grange-Over-Sands, potentially far better parking, and the whole of the South Lakes as a catchment area. Given the painful commute into Manchester from the northwest (typically now 2.5 hours in the morning), it really would offer an attractive service. I'm not suggesting Virgin WCML services stop there - but the combination of Barrow, Windermere and Glasgow - Manchester services would offer a regular fast service to Manchester.
Forget the size of Carnforth - thats not relevant. What is relevant is the size of the hinterland: the whole South Lakes and part of the Western Dales, and the ease of access to it via the A590/A591/A6/M6/A65.

 

[RichmondCommu]

As I posted in another thread, if WCRC does close, then there is the chance of clearing the scrapyard otherwise known as Steamtown, building a new pair of platforms serving the WCML on the sidings parallel to the WCML south of the current station (retaining fast through lines) and using the rest of the released space as car parking for a new park and ride.

That's a pretty big "if". And who's to say that another organisation wouldn't buy the site and use it for similar purposes.

 

[randyrippley]

That's a pretty big "if". And who's to say that another organisation wouldn't buy the site and use it for similar purposes.

Lets hope they don't, for the sake of the residents near that site.
Its nothing but an unlicensed scrapyard

 

[Iskra]

Lets hope they don't, for the sake of the residents near that site.
Its nothing but an unlicensed scrapyard

I think you're completely exaggerating the issue. I used to live within 500m of it. It had zero negative impact on my life. If anything, it was quite nice hearing the odd steamer being fired on the way to work early doors.

It also creates employment, and brings people and money to Carnforth.

Furthermore, there is ample free on street parking within 5 minutes walk of Carnforth railway station, so a new car park is unnecessary. Also, why would you want to further congest Carnforth town centre with extra cars?

 

[randyrippley]

there is ample free on street parking within 5 minutes walk of Carnforth railway station, so a new car park is unnecessary. Also, why would you want to further congest Carnforth town centre with extra cars?

err......there is very limited street parking in Carnforth, most of which is taken by residents, office workers and shoppers. For a railhead to go ahead, much more parking would be required.
As for congestion, Carnforth's is minimal compared to Lancaster, the alternative railhead. And I'm talking of parking them at Steamtown, not the town centre so they wouldn't increase congestion

 

[RichmondCommu]

Lets hope they don't, for the sake of the residents near that site.
Its nothing but an unlicensed scrapyard

In other words your suggesting that loco's and rolling stock are not maintained / restored there?

In indeed if it was an unlicensed scrap yard I'm sure the authorities would have stopped commercial activity there a long time a go.

 

[Iskra]

err......there is very limited street parking in Carnforth, most of which is taken by residents, office workers and shoppers. For a railhead to go ahead, much more parking would be required.
As for congestion, Carnforth's is minimal compared to Lancaster, the alternative railhead. And I'm talking of parking them at Steamtown, not the town centre so they wouldn't increase congestion

There's plenty of parking on the residential back streets. If you were commuting to Manchester, you would be arriving early enough to get a parking spot ahead of office workers or shoppers.

For the South Lakes I'd suggest Oxenholme already serves the market you're talking about and it has a significantly better service.

Yes, but the new Heysham M6 link is going to improve the traffic in Lancaster.

The people coming from the South Lakes on the M6, A6, A65 etc would all have to drive through the town centre to get to the current steamtown site, causing further congestion.

 

[randyrippley]

There's plenty of parking on the residential back streets. If you were commuting to Manchester, you would be arriving early enough to get a parking spot ahead of office workers or shoppers.

For the South Lakes I'd suggest Oxenholme already serves the market you're talking about and it has a significantly better service.

Yes, but the new Heysham M6 link is going to improve the traffic in Lancaster.

The people coming from the South Lakes on the M6, A6, A65 etc would all have to drive through the town centre to get to the current steamtown site, causing further congestion.

OK, lets go through this point by point
First, there really isn't much free available parking in Carnforth. I regularly go there and I know exactly how difficult it is - and how vocal the residents can be if you leave car outside their house all day. A new park and ride would need a new car park

Next, getting by road to Oxenholme from anywhere except Kendal is a pain. The road from the M6 is dangerous, while from any other direction you have to pass through Kendal itself

The Heysham M6 link may relieve traffic to Heysham and Morecambe, it will do nothing to ease the problems of Lancaster's one-way system, which any out of town traffic will have to negotiate. And again, there's a severe lack of parking near Lancaster station

Finally, yes there would be an increase in traffic through Carnforth, but that would be small compared to existing volumes already heading for Lancaster / Morecambe and would add little to the current traffic. Except for school closing time around 4pm, traffic problems in Carnforth are relatively minimal

 

[Esker-pades]

Personally, the proximity of Carnforth to Lancaster, it's current usage and service levels, and the extra time required to slow services down to stop there, its chances are slim.

I mean, one could stop every other Manchester to Scotland TransPennine service, but I don't think that's feasible.

 

[Iskra]

OK, lets go through this point by point
First, there really isn't much free available parking in Carnforth. I regularly go there and I know exactly how difficult it is - and how vocal the residents can be if you leave car outside their house all day. A new park and ride would need a new car park

Next, getting by road to Oxenholme from anywhere except Kendal is a pain. The road from the M6 is dangerous, while from any other direction you have to pass through Kendal itself

The Heysham M6 link may relieve traffic to Heysham and Morecambe, it will do nothing to ease the problems of Lancaster's one-way system, which any out of town traffic will have to negotiate. And again, there's a severe lack of parking near Lancaster station

Finally, yes there would be an increase in traffic through Carnforth, but that would be small compared to existing volumes already heading for Lancaster / Morecambe and would add little to the current traffic. Except for school closing time around 4pm, traffic problems in Carnforth are relatively minimal

We clearly have differing experiences.

I spent 2 years living within 100m of Carnforth station, in a flat with no attached parking. Me and my then partner parked our two cars in the town centre daily. We were never unable to park. I never had any problems from residents for parking outside their house and nor should I as it's a public highway.

I spent 4 years living in Lancaster as a student, 1 of those years again was within 100m of the station. We had 4 cars between us, and again we were always able to park daily.

I find Oxenholme fairly easy to get to. The road is no more dangerous than any other rural road, there is nothing intrinsically unsafe about it.

The increase wouldn't be small and the it would be felt a lot more on Carnforths single carriage way roads compared to Lancasters 2-lane ring road. Traffic routinely queues through Market street in Carnforth 8am-5.30pm as well as on the A6. I disagree that Carnforth doesn't have traffic problems.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

There's plenty of parking on the residential back streets.

Comments like this will not endear you to the residents of those "residential back streets" when they suddenly find a veritable horde of "unknowns" suddenly descending upon them...

 

[RichmondCommu]

Comments like this will not endear you to the residents of those "residential back streets" when they suddenly find a veritable horde of "unknowns" suddenly descending upon them...

Simple solution to that; sell up or wait for your tenancy agreement to end. Or don't move into the street in the first place.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Simple solution to that; sell up or wait for your tenancy agreement to end. Or don't move into the street in the first place.

And all because some bright spark suddenly decided that reopening the main line platforms at Carnforth would be a good idea...

Why on earth should those local residents be put upon in that way. If a railway station facility is to be expanded, then let those charged with that decision ensure that extra car parking on railway land be so provided.

I find your option of "sell up and wait for your tenancy agreement to end" to be patronising at best and having undertones of "big brother" at worst.

Your final option of "don't move into the street in the first place" is utterly meaningless when one considers those residents who moved into those properties years ago.

Local councillors will find this proposal of disruption to be a heaven sent "axe to grind" with the railway authorities and even the local press with all their usual journalistic shortcomings will ensure that the local area television stations will milk this for all that it is worth.

 

[RichmondCommu]

And all because some bright spark suddenly decided that reopening the main line platforms at Carnforth would be a good idea...

Why on earth should those local residents be put upon in that way. If a railway station facility is to be expanded, then let those charged with that decision ensure that extra car parking on railway land be so provided.

I find your option of "sell up and wait for your tenancy agreement to end" to be patronising at best and having undertones of "big brother" at worst.

Your final option of "don't move into the street in the first place" is utterly meaningless when one considers those residents who moved into those properties years ago.

Local councillors will find this proposal of disruption to be a heaven sent "axe to grind" with the railway authorities and even the local press with all their usual journalistic shortcomings will ensure that the local area television stations will milk this for all that it is worth.

Hang on minute, I'm not suggesting for one minute that Carnforth should once again have a direct service to Carlisle or destinations south of Lancashire.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Hang on minute, I'm not suggesting for one minute that Carnforth should once again have a direct service to Carlisle or destinations south of Lancashire.

Well, that is what this thread is all about, according to what its title states, so I based my posting response on this being the subject matter so discussed.

 

[randyrippley]

Hang on minute, I'm not suggesting for one minute that Carnforth should once again have a direct service to Carlisle or destinations south of Lancashire.

why not? Its a good idea!

 

[Mallone]

I find it hard to understand how anybody interested in rail transport can call "Steamtown" a scrapyard. You seem to be oblivious to the fact that old passenger carriages are stripped down, refurbished and returned to excellent condition at this site. Also, steam and diesel locomotives are rebuilt, repaired and brought back into service providing people, genuinely interested in railways, a chance to relive their childhood memories.
I have no time for the way Steamtown is cloaked in secrecy but I would hate to see it go.

 

[Iskra]

Comments like this will not endear you to the residents of those "residential back streets" when they suddenly find a veritable horde of "unknowns" suddenly descending upon them...

1) If they have jobs they'll be out working all day anyway so won't even notice.
2) It's already happening.
3) They are public highways. People are allowed to park there. You do not have a god given right to a parking space right outside of your house.
4) I'm not interested in endearing myself to the residents of Carnforth.

Anyway, it's a pie in the sky hypothetical idea, so I don't think anyone need worry about the infrastructure strain on Carnforth all that much for now.