Any way of changing gender of ScotRail Bargain Berth?

[stuart]

No, seriously, so many posts that completely missed Stuart's point.

Glad to see someone has got it at last!

There was a move away from compartment stock to open saloons (talking about day stock here) for personal safety reasons: it was all too easy to find oneself in a compartment (designed for six, but often not occupied to capacity) with someone unsuitable and a closed door between yourself and the rest of the world. It's time a similar move was made with sleeper stock (the existing stock being prety much life-expired, despite the so-called refurbishment a couple of years ago, where they didn't even change the carpets). Either a move to single-class sleeping accomodation with single berths - perhaps supplemented by more seated accomodation - and/or a move in standard class to either "capsule" style accomodation or cabins with larger numbers of people where there is, as others have pointed out, safety in numbers.

Gender/orientation is only one of a number of variables - what about age, sobriety, propensity to snore, recent consumption of spicy curry, chronic insomnia? - that go into determining suitable pairings. In fact, the more you think about it, gender may become the least of your worries. A one-on-one sharing system based purely on gender just doesn't cut it in the 2000s.

 

[34D]

Gender/orientation is only one of a number of variables - what about age, sobriety, propensity to snore, recent consumption of spicy curry, chronic insomnia? - that go into determining suitable pairings. In fact, the more you think about it, gender may become the least of your worries. A one-on-one sharing system based purely on gender just doesn't cut it in the 2000s.

Try telling that to the father of an 18 year old student returning to university who has just shared a 6 berth with 5 businessmen in their 40s.

 

[Butts]

Try telling that to the father of an 18 year old student returning to university who has just shared a 6 berth with 5 businessmen in their 40s.

I've seen that movie

 

[12CSVT]

Having read some of the posts in this thread, all I'm going to say is thank goodness all the Scotrail and FGW sleeper services have conventional seated coaches.

 

[WestCoast]

There was a move away from compartment stock to open saloons (talking about day stock here) for personal safety reasons: it was all too easy to find oneself in a compartment (designed for six, but often not occupied to capacity) with someone unsuitable and a closed door between yourself and the rest of the world.

Compartments are still available on a number of longer distance trains (including the latest generation) on the continent (in both classes), but there is always the option of open seating as well. They actually tend to be the most popular seats on the train, as they appeal particularly to groups/families and people wanting to relax away from the hussle and bussle of a packed open saloon. They feel very civilised for long distance travel in my opinion.

cabins with larger numbers of people where there is, as others have pointed out, safety in numbers.

Again, couchettes of 6 are the main 2nd class sleeper accommodation in mainland Europe (private solo/group compartments may be 1st class), where there are vastly more overnight services than here. I've shared a couchette with 2-5 other people numerous times and never found any problems, nor have I heard about any. The only time I have travelled on the Caledonian sleeper was a quiet night, where sharing was not required due to the low occupancy.

To my knowledge, no operator has tried to fit the airline style lie-flat seats in an open saloon. It's perhaps an option, but I guess it depends on how many you can fit in (they are somewhat wide) and whether passengers like them without the ambient noise of an aircraft engine (thus hearing the movement and noises of a whole carriage of people, plus the train staff e.t.c).

 

[bkhtele]

You could try an upgrade to solo (a single birth) if available, it is unlikely that the train staff would care what sex the person was in the birth - think it is about £20 extra. I am sure it would be considered an admin error on the night. Think it is quite common that male/female selection is wrong. Staff are very helpful

 

[reb0118]

You could try an upgrade to solo (a single berth) if available, it is unlikely that the train staff would care what sex the person was in the berth - think it is about £20 extra. I am sure it would be considered an admin error on the night. Think it is quite common that male/female selection is wrong. Staff are very helpful

Doubt you can do this with a "bargain berth" though. If you hold the modern equivalent of the old open or saver returns then you can pay extra for a "solo" cabin. This is still in the standard coaches and the other berth in your compartment is not folded away either.

 

[deltic1989]

Ok, so if we were to phase out cabins on sleeper services how would the accomodation work?
Let's consider this. According to my research a mk 3 coach is 23 metres long, take out 1 metre (give or take a few centemetres) for the vestibules and we are left with 21 metres of space in the saloon.
Now if we have 3 metre long bunks against each wall of the coach we have enough room for 7 (if my mental arithmatic hasn't failed me), if we stack 3 of these bunks one on top of the other (as in the below photograph of a submarine) then we (again if my maths hasn't failed me) have enough room for 21 bunks against each wall, so 42 in each coach.
If each bunk has its own light and a curtain for privacy, this model should provide reasonable comfort and provide extra capacity over the existing model.
It's worked on warships for years and I hae to say that for my part my 4 1/2 years in this type of accomodation, all be it not on a submarine but a type 22 frigate, was pretty comfortable.

I stand to be correted on any of the points above, but it's an idea.


click here for the image I was talking about.

 

[34D]

Ok, so if we were to phase out cabins on sleeper services how would the accomodation work?
Let's consider this. According to my research a mk 3 coach is 23 metres long, take out 1 metre (give or take a few centemetres) for the vestibules and we are left with 21 metres of space in the saloon.
Now if we have 3 metre long bunks against each wall of the coach we have enough room for 7 (if my mental arithmatic hasn't failed me), if we stack 3 of these bunks one on top of the other (as in the below photograph of a submarine) then we (again if my maths hasn't failed me) have enough room for 21 bunks against each wall, so 42 in each coach.
If each bunk has its own light and a curtain for privacy, this model should provide reasonable comfort and provide extra capacity over the existing model.
It's worked on warships for years and I hae to say that for my part my 4 1/2 years in this type of accomodation, all be it not on a submarine but a type 22 frigate, was pretty comfortable.

I stand to be correted on any of the points above, but it's an idea.


click here for the image I was talking about.

I like your idea. Spookily, 42 people is traditionally the capacity of a mark 1 or 2 first class coach (mark 3 and 4 are a bit higher).

If this was the lower of two levels of lie flat accommodation (with the higher level being berths for one with an en suite shower) I would be most happy.

Not sure if there is a way to ask this without breeching forum rules or public decency, but the headroom in those navy bunks is very restricted, and I'd imagine that intimate activity is virtually impossible - is this the case? Though again, we would (hopefully) have first class compartments for that.

 

[ng1980]

Ok, so if we were to phase out cabins on sleeper services how would the accomodation work?
Let's consider this. According to my research a mk 3 coach is 23 metres long, take out 1 metre (give or take a few centemetres) for the vestibules and we are left with 21 metres of space in the saloon.
Now if we have 3 metre long bunks against each wall of the coach we have enough room for 7 (if my mental arithmatic hasn't failed me), if we stack 3 of these bunks one on top of the other (as in the below photograph of a submarine) then we (again if my maths hasn't failed me) have enough room for 21 bunks against each wall, so 42 in each coach.
If each bunk has its own light and a curtain for privacy, this model should provide reasonable comfort and provide extra capacity over the existing model.
It's worked on warships for years and I hae to say that for my part my 4 1/2 years in this type of accomodation, all be it not on a submarine but a type 22 frigate, was pretty comfortable.

I stand to be correted on any of the points above, but it's an idea.


click here for the image I was talking about.

Hi, deltic1989,

I have never been on a sleeper train in UK - I have been on 3 sleeper trains in China ( ) and 2 in Australia ( :cry: ).

Chinese sleeper trains have (or at least had, I have not kept up with the development of Chinese railways in the last few years) five classes:
* 1st class: soft sleeper
* 2nd class: hard sleeper
* 3rd class: soft seat
* 4th class: hard seat
* 5th class: standing, sitting on floor, or sitting in luggage van

I attach a pic (downloaded, not mine) of a 2nd class hard sleeper, which does not look very comfortable. However, I stayed in this accomodation on three trips (Wuhan - Shanghai, Shanghai - Hong Kong, Hong Kong - Beijing) and I found them perfectly comfortable and adequate.

As you can see, these are also bunks of three, but rather than being alongside the carriage, they are across the carriage, affording a greater number of beds in the carriage. There is also room for a table and chair on the opposite side of the gangway.

I don't know about the guage and width clearance comparisons between the UK and China, but here is another option. However, people in the UK might like a little more privacy than this. A curtain across could make things a bit more private.

Anyway, just thought that I would share.

 

[ng1980]

Hi, deltic1989,

I have never been on a sleeper train in UK - I have been on 3 sleeper trains in China ( ) and 2 in Australia ( :cry: ).

Chinese sleeper trains have (or at least had, I have not kept up with the development of Chinese railways in the last few years) five classes:
* 1st class: soft sleeper
* 2nd class: hard sleeper
* 3rd class: soft seat
* 4th class: hard seat
* 5th class: standing, sitting on floor, or sitting in luggage van

I attach a pic (downloaded, not mine) of a 2nd class hard sleeper, which does not look very comfortable. However, I stayed in this accomodation on three trips (Wuhan - Shanghai, Shanghai - Hong Kong, Hong Kong - Beijing) and I found them perfectly comfortable and adequate.

As you can see, these are also bunks of three, but rather than being alongside the carriage, they are across the carriage, affording a greater number of beds in the carriage. There is also room for a table and chair on the opposite side of the gangway.

I don't know about the guage and width clearance comparisons between the UK and China, but here is another option. However, people in the UK might like a little more privacy than this. A curtain across could make things a bit more private.

Anyway, just thought that I would share.

Forgot to attach pic, and it won't do it by editing, so here's a new message with attachment.

 

[simonm]

Why not just do what they do on the Night Riviera (also run by First) where single travellers have a single cabin to themselves and you don't share unless you know the person.

 

[philjo]

Hi, deltic1989,

I have never been on a sleeper train in UK - I have been on 3 sleeper trains in China ( ) and 2 in Australia ( :cry: ).

Chinese sleeper trains have (or at least had, I have not kept up with the development of Chinese railways in the last few years) five classes:
* 1st class: soft sleeper
* 2nd class: hard sleeper
* 3rd class: soft seat
* 4th class: hard seat
* 5th class: standing, sitting on floor, or sitting in luggage van

I attach a pic (downloaded, not mine) of a 2nd class hard sleeper, which does not look very comfortable. However, I stayed in this accomodation on three trips (Wuhan - Shanghai, Shanghai - Hong Kong, Hong Kong - Beijing) and I found them perfectly comfortable and adequate.

As you can see, these are also bunks of three, but rather than being alongside the carriage, they are across the carriage, affording a greater number of beds in the carriage. There is also room for a table and chair on the opposite side of the gangway.

I don't know about the guage and width clearance comparisons between the UK and China, but here is another option. However, people in the UK might like a little more privacy than this. A curtain across could make things a bit more private.

Anyway, just thought that I would share.

That arrangement would never pass UK fire regulations.

 

[jopsuk]

Why not just do what they do on the Night Riviera (also run by First) where single travellers have a single cabin to themselves and you don't share unless you know the person.

Many of the Caledonian sleeper services, especially Friday and Sunday night, run full or nearly full. You want to reduce capacity? If you wanted to go to single-occupancy only (unless you're booking together) you'd have to nearly double the number of Standard Class carriages- which would mean running five trains in and out of Euston rather than two, and you'd have to claw back every mark 3 SLE and SLEP currently rotting away or being used as accomodation on preservated railways or in charter rakes.