Anyone noticed anecdotally another uptick in passenger numbers

[Snow1964]

Even more of a problem is the areas that seem to have got busy, often have no spare stock, or it is very much in a local area.

An unscientific visual thought is it seems commuting patterns have changed, but the timetable and stock allocation is still based on patterns 10-20 years ago. Been told cities like Bristol, Cardiff, Leeds, Birmingham etc have seen lots of regional offices open, and some of this has replaced London, but hasn't been much change in rail commuting capacity to reflect this.

I have travelled to both Bristol and Cardiff at rush hour recently and many trains are very crowded with lots of standees, but seem stupidly short (I commuted into London for 30+ years and 8-12cars were the norm, so I find these toytown length trains strange at rush hour)

 

[jammmmmsssssss]

That doesn’t apply in East Anglia

So true

 

[yorksrob]

At the risk of jinxing it, GA have been reliable since the pandemic/new stock settled down

That doesn’t apply in East Anglia

The North is as abysmal as ever.

 

[evergreenadam]

Some of the Eastbourne to Victoria services recently have been full and standing from Eastbourne.

The poor passengers trying to board and get a seat at Lewes has become a real problem.

I‘m also suprised that the 8 coach length is maintained. Definitely a case for 12 coaches on some of the post peak services after 10am

Lewes has always got a poor deal, summer Saturday evening 8 coach trains returning to London are also often full and standing on arrival at Lewes.

 

[Snow1964]

Even the DfT spreadsheet is showing some days at 90% (excluding Elizabeth line), or over 100% (including Elizabeth line)

eg 9-12 March all 90%, then 13-28 March (28th is day before Good Friday), all days are 82-85%

Interesting although the spreadsheet compares to pre-covid, there is no noticeable fall off on Monday or Friday, in fact all 7 days of week are now a very consistent percentage

Daily domestic transport use by mode

Daily usage of selected domestic transport by mode for Great Britain

www.gov.uk

 

[railfan99]

It's amazing that there's any uptick at all, given how abysmally unreliable the railway's been these last few years.

As a non-local, I won't have had nearly as many journeys as many of you, but in September 2022 and again in September 2023 rushing around England and with a few journeys in Scotland and Wales, I only had about two trains cancelled, with alternative routes available in one case from Preston, Lancs.

There were very few trains that ran more than five minutes late: many were punctual to the minute, or a minute late at my destination.

Great to see patronage maintaining an upwards trend from the above comments, although not many enjoy standing for an hour or 90 minutes. The latest ORR report (that doesn't appear to have been discussed on the forum) was mostly positive. Without veering OT, revenue is down due to season ticket purchases declining. Perhaps this farebox type will slowly recover if WFH continues to reduce.

 

[nw1]

Last Sunday the 1700-ish Bournemouth to Waterloo (semi-fast, calling at the New Forest stations) was pretty busy for the season. Normally those trains are not so very busy outside the summer period.

But perhaps because the weather has been so atrocious this year and last Sunday, while coldish, was sunny, it was full of pent-up demand from people waiting for the first fine weekend! I guess I too went out last weekend for that reason...

The down train, the 1154 (? - that was its pre-Covid timing) from Waterloo, wasn't so busy but it normally isn't anyway - it's a bit late for day trips from London.

 

[yorksrob]

As a non-local, I won't have had nearly as many journeys as many of you, but in September 2022 and again in September 2023 rushing around England and with a few journeys in Scotland and Wales, I only had about two trains cancelled, with alternative routes available in one case from Preston, Lancs.

There were very few trains that ran more than five minutes late: many were punctual to the minute, or a minute late at my destination.

Great to see patronage maintaining an upwards trend from the above comments, although not many enjoy standing for an hour or 90 minutes. The latest ORR report (that doesn't appear to have been discussed on the forum) was mostly positive. Without veering OT, revenue is down due to season ticket purchases declining. Perhaps this farebox type will slowly recover if WFH continues to reduce.

You've definitely lucked out in that case.

 

[Blindtraveler]

There has not been a journey of over 50 miles that I have taken in the last 12 to 18 months where there hasn't been some form of disruption and a good few under the 50 or 60 mile threshold as well, especially when said journey involves Thameslink in or out of North Kent or the Elizabeth line
Has somebody said above, it's a minor miracle that passenger numbers have climbed back largely to pre-pandemic levels, somehow doubt they will do a great deal of growing while the current order persists

 

[Recessio]

I've definitely noticed the SWR morning trains getting busier. I used to be able to get a seat, now it's standing only and often full by Woking.

 

[stuu]

You've definitely lucked out in that case.

Except that's not true. 97% of trains run as scheduled, and 9 out of 10 arrive on time. Of course if you live somewhere unfortunate that might not be your daily experience, but most journeys for most passengers don't get disrupted.

I have been doing Taunton-London once or twice a month for the past couple of years, as well as other journeys, and my trains have never been cancelled and the worst delay was less than an hour, and that was because someone had thrown a sofa over a bridge. Apart from strikes, but I support the right to strike so I can't complain, even if it is annoying

 

[yorksrob]

Except that's not true. 97% of trains run as scheduled, and 9 out of 10 arrive on time. Of course if you live somewhere unfortunate that might not be your daily experience, but most journeys for most passengers don't get disrupted.

I have been doing Taunton-London once or twice a month for the past couple of years, as well as other journeys, and my trains have never been cancelled and the worst delay was less than an hour, and that was because someone had thrown a sofa over a bridge. Apart from strikes, but I support the right to strike so I can't complain, even if it is annoying

Statistically maybe, but any regular passenger will have run a gauntlet of random mass-cancellations and industrial action since the pandemic.

 

[Adrian1980uk]

Statistically maybe, but any regular passenger will have run a gauntlet of random mass-cancellations and industrial action since the pandemic.

That's the thing though, the perception rightly or wrongly is that the trains are unreliable. Change that narrative and you'd be surprised how many passengers would use them but in the current setup it would not be something the DFT would want.

 

[yorksrob]

That's the thing though, the perception rightly or wrongly is that the trains are unreliable. Change that narrative and you'd be surprised how many passengers would use them but in the current setup it would not be something the DFT would want.

Oh, I agree - if you take away those issues, people want to use trains.

The situation would have to change then the narrative may follow.

 

[Moonshot]

That's the thing though, the perception rightly or wrongly is that the trains are unreliable. Change that narrative and you'd be surprised how many passengers would use them but in the current setup it would not be something the DFT would want.

The point you make about narrative/perception is very important. As an insider , the staff are well used to stating the trains are unreliable....because they are.

 

[stuu]

Statistically maybe, but any regular passenger will have run a gauntlet of random mass-cancellations and industrial action since the pandemic.

Statistically is the important thing though, most journeys simply aren't disrupted. We remember the times they are, and rightly, moan about them

 

[nw1]

I've definitely noticed the SWR morning trains getting busier. I used to be able to get a seat, now it's standing only and often full by Woking.

Hopefully that will encourage SWR to introduce peak extras again. They do seem to be lagging behind some other TOCs in that respect, though the 701 situation probably isn't helping.

AFAIK the only SWR peak extras on the mainlines are the Portsmouth Direct going to 4tph for a couple of hours rather than 3.

 

[yorksrob]

Statistically is the important thing though, most journeys simply aren't disrupted. We remember the times they are, and rightly, moan about them

You are correct that most journeys aren't disrupted, however perceptions, not statistics are the important thing. The average person will not need to be disrupted very often to decide that the railway is unreliable.

 

[Snow1964]

That's the thing though, the perception rightly or wrongly is that the trains are unreliable. Change that narrative and you'd be surprised how many passengers would use them but in the current setup it would not be something the DFT would want.

The perception can be result of few headlines : Avanti short of drivers, Northern regularly cancelling same commuter trains, West Midlands struggling to operate a Sunday service, X route suffering land slip, ASLEF having yet another monthly strike day.

Whichever part of UK rail has problems causing a bad headline, affects perception, even if not your local line. No one sees a news headline saying trains actually ran on time today.

Ironically I have even seen radio and TV ads encouraging train use minutes apart from disruption announcements or news. It's not like the Operator messing up reimburses all the other Operators for cutting their rail numbers by ruining the efficient and reliable image.

 

[urbophile]

I've been on quit a few crowded Merseyrail trains recently. I believe the new 777s (four car) have about the same number of seats as a three car 507, but more standing room, so they don't seem as uncomfortable: but the rush seems to build from around 16.00 or earlier.

 

[Deepgreen]

Is "uptick" supposed to mean 'increase'?

 

[Snow1964]

Is "uptick" supposed to mean 'increase'?

Correct, it is a small increase or upward trend
Although it is more American English than UK English

 

[geoffk]

Correct, it is a small increase or upward trend
Although it is more American English than UK English

Not keen on the word uptick but it's a lot better than hike and spike, both of which I find annoying. Local services in the south-west have recovered well and some are enjoying their best ever service.

 

[Deepgreen]

Not keen on the word uptick but it's a lot better than hike and spike, both of which I find annoying. Local services in the south-west have recovered well and some are enjoying their best ever service.

I'm perfectly content with 'increase', though. The BBC is complicit in this adoption of pointless alternative words where perfectly good ones already exist in the language - 'multiple' (usually mis-used) is a persistent current one, where they use it to mean simply 'several', whereas it actually refers to things or events operating together, in concert (hence 'multiple unit'). Anyway, I mustn't drag us off-topic further...

 

[Halwynd]

I undertook a rail journey last Saturday using an Off Peak Return.

The second leg of my early-evening return journey (with Avanti) was cancelled, and the next timetabled service an hour later was cancelled too, so Avanti put a Special Stop Order on a Euston - Glasgow (normally first stop Warrington) which was not booked to call. I was able to choose almost any seat I liked as there were only half a dozen or so in the Standard Class carriage I boarded - Premium and First contained nothing but fresh air.

I've never really bothered with Delay Repay, but because of all the shenanighans on the railway these days I've started claiming. The following day I submitted a claim for the return journey for which I was eligible a 50% refund, based on a delay of about 90 minutes. A couple of days later I received an email to say no... I was due a full refund of the return ticket because my return journey was delayed for more than 120 minutes. If the Euston - Glasgow hadn't stopped then I would have been over two hours late, so I'm assuming the Delay Repay system doesn't take into account Special Stop Orders.

 

[Taunton]

I've been around London early this Sunday morning. No Marathon or similar. Grey, cold, wet and windy. Yet the trains are notably busy. District Line from Earls Court to Paddington, a less-frequented branch, was well-filled. Elizabeth arriving at Paddington at 0900 from Reading, not Heathrow, full and standing (including one with a real Penny Farthing bicycle!).

I did notice the trains well-filled but the buses empty.

 

[Recessio]

Hopefully that will encourage SWR to introduce peak extras again. They do seem to be lagging behind some other TOCs in that respect, though the 701 situation probably isn't helping.

AFAIK the only SWR peak extras on the mainlines are the Portsmouth Direct going to 4tph for a couple of hours rather than 3.

Hopefully. Another part of the problem is the shorter trains just outside of the peaks, I'm finding it can be close to full and standing on the five car services.

 

[nw1]

I've been around London early this Sunday morning. No Marathon or similar. Grey, cold, wet and windy. Yet the trains are notably busy. District Line from Earls Court to Paddington, a less-frequented branch, was well-filled. Elizabeth arriving at Paddington at 0900 from Reading, not Heathrow, full and standing (including one with a real Penny Farthing bicycle!).

I did notice the trains well-filled but the buses empty.

Certainly seems unusual to get a train arriving at 0900 on a Sunday so busy - I thought Sundays traditionally had a later start, due to Sunday trading laws amongst other things.

Even on a Saturday I'd have expected the typical time for people to arrive in London on a daytrip range from 1000-1200 or so, depending on how far people have to travel.

 

[Watershed]

I've been around London early this Sunday morning. No Marathon or similar. Grey, cold, wet and windy. Yet the trains are notably busy. District Line from Earls Court to Paddington, a less-frequented branch, was well-filled. Elizabeth arriving at Paddington at 0900 from Reading, not Heathrow, full and standing (including one with a real Penny Farthing bicycle!).

I did notice the trains well-filled but the buses empty.

Similarly on the southern side of the Thames. Trains on the Brighton Main Line absolutely rammed with some passengers left behind.

 

[JonathanH]

Similarly on the southern side of the Thames. Trains on the Brighton Main Line absolutely rammed with some passengers left behind.

There is a reduced service today though with many of the platforms at East Croydon unavailable.