Apprenticeship Trainee Drivers

[AverageJoe]

The NVQ (2 GCSEs?) is about as relevant to driving trains as my law degree, qualified solicitor status is/was.

I’ve been incident free for five years, doing the job, means a lot more than any qualifications.

I’ll ask again, have you driven a train in anger?

You’re not understanding the question.

He is comparing you, a driver who has not made any errors and has years of experience to another driver with the same experience and safety record but he also has an NVQ and then from an employers point of view who do you hire?

Nothing to do with whether I have driven a train or not.

You’re not understanding the question.

He is comparing you, a driver who has not made any errors and has years of experience to another driver with the same experience and safety record but he also has an NVQ and then from an employers point of view who do you hire?

Nothing to do with whether I have driven a train or not.

Also if TOCs start to ask for it then it’s relevant whether we like it or not.

 

[43066]

Nothing to do with whether I have driven a train or not.

So that would be a “no” then?

I’ll leave it there.

 

[Jon1930]

You’re not understanding the question.

He is comparing you, a driver who has not made any errors and has years of experience to another driver with the same experience and safety record but he also has an NVQ and then from an employers point of view who do you hire?

Nothing to do with whether I have driven a train or not.


Also if TOCs start to ask for it then it’s relevant whether we like it or not.

Well it would be unfair on the driver who does not have the NVQ as he passed out way before the apprenticeship scheme started so doubt that will ever happen. Anyways doubt a driver manager would care about the Mickey mouse qualification, a driver that recently passed out told the driver manager part of the apprenticeship youd get a phone call from the assessor and ask u questions like what would u do if your colleague was being radicalised? Driver manager just laughed and said what a load of crap!

 

[AverageJoe]

So that would be a “no” then?

I’ll leave it there.

It’s a no.

I’m not trying to have a go at you or belittle you here, just explaining what the other guy meant by the question.

What he said does stand, I find your reaction strange tbh.

I am a tram driver so I have some experience of safety critical work.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

You have two candidates, both with similar times in position, both with immaculate records, both interviewed really well, 1 has the industry NVQ the other doesn’t who will you chose?

In that case they would pick whoever interviews better, as with any recruitment process.

 

[dk1]

In that case they would pick whoever interviews better, as with any recruitment process.

Or whichever candidate is related to somebody else already traincrew.

 

[Stigy]

Or whichever candidate is related to somebody else already traincrew.

Or whoever ticks any other, even vague, equality box

 

[MostlyHarmless]

You have two candidates, both with similar times in position, both with immaculate records, both interviewed really well, 1 has the industry NVQ the other doesn’t who will you chose?

I would imagine it would depend on any number of things including whether the interviewers had even heard of or placed any value on this qualification - particularly as at no other point in the recruitment process for a driver to you need any formal qualifications (as far as I'm aware).

I'm not against these 'apprenticeships' but I'm really not convinced that they add any value to role and I'm happy that I've managed to dodge the bullet twice now!

 

[wobman]

I would imagine it would depend on any number of things including whether the interviewers had even heard of or placed any value on this qualification - particularly as at no other point in the recruitment process for a driver to you need any formal qualifications (as far as I'm aware).

I'm not against these 'apprenticeships' but I'm really not convinced that they add any value to role and I'm happy that I've managed to dodge the bullet twice now!

It would depend on the drivers safety of the line records and driving experience, no 2 applicants would be identical in reality.

 

[43066]

It’s a no.

I’m not trying to have a go at you or belittle you here, just explaining what the other guy meant by the question.

What he said does stand, I find your reaction strange tbh.

I am a tram driver so I have some experience of safety critical work.

It has been explained upthread that the apprenticeship doesn’t add anything at all to the rules course. Choosing between two candidates, one with and one without the apprenticeship, is choosing between two identically qualified drivers, the only relevant qualification being the train driving license. Similarly, drivers with degrees aren’t favoured over those without because the only relevant qualification is the license.

Looking at it another way, why do you think TOCs aren’t putting their qualified drivers through the apprenticeship?

 

[387star]

That’s the thing though; as tedious as it is (because let’s face it, it isn’t beneficial to the trainees or their future, having a non-transferable qualification), those applying for trainee driver jobs aren’t really in a position to object. It is what it is, and if they don’t like it, hard luck. If I had to do it as a trainee I’d do it, without hesitation, because doing it and getting your key, is generally a far better option than objecting and making your life that little bit harder, or declining an offer of employment based on it and cutting your nose off to spite your face.

It's a bit like the farcical situation at Thameslink where they said training would be in Three Bridges so I got a house share There. Turned out it was in Brighton as Three Bridges depot didn't open till nearly a year after I started. This meant getting up at 2am to drive to Brighton. Taxi agreement didn't apply to trainees. To be fair they did relent and eventually offer travel time but you can hardly moan as a trainee. Once I got a rail replacement on an arduous journey to Brighton at 4AM and I hate earlies ! The driver I was supposed to shadow with wasn't even there! All that just to sit and read a rule book feeling zonked out... but like I say worth it eventually

 

[Carl98k]

Is it mainly TOCs that offer apprenticeships? I don’t see many FOCs offering these up. For example GBRf are recruiting for trainee drivers in London, no mention of an apprenticeship

 

[wobman]

If your a TOC and you can recoup over £20k of your trainee driver training costs you will do it, plus its a recognised qualification for the hard work that the trainees put in.
This is especially relevant if your have a big recruitment drive, that's 100 x trainee driver each saving £20k that a huge cost saving.

 

[Terry844]

Is it mainly TOCs that offer apprenticeships? I don’t see many FOCs offering these up. For example GBRf are recruiting for trainee drivers in London, no mention of an apprenticeship

Freightliner are doing the apprenticeship

 

[Carl98k]

Freightliner are doing the apprenticeship

So just this one then? I’m waiting to start for a Foc and I believe it’s the standard 12 month course.

 

[SJN]

So just this one then? I’m waiting to start for a Foc and I believe it’s the standard 12 month course.

The ones with the apprenticeship are still the standard course. It’s just you get a week to do the functional skills exams if you don’t have certificates.

 

[Carl98k]

The ones with the apprenticeship are still the standard course. It’s just you get a week to do the functional skills exams if you don’t have certificates.

Yes I totally get that. It’s just on most TOCs they advertise as train driver apprenticeship, the FOC I applied for advertised as trainee driver. I’m happy either way (who wouldn’t be).

 

[Terry844]

Yes I totally get that. It’s just on most TOCs they advertise as train driver apprenticeship, the FOC I applied for advertised as trainee driver. I’m happy either way (who wouldn’t be).

You will find out when you start your course, if they ask for GCSE certificates

 

[Carl98k]

You will find out when you start your course, if they ask for GCSE certificates

That’s if they’re doing the apprenticeship

 

[Terry844]

So what FOC is it, some one may know

 

[Carl98k]

So what FOC is it, some one may know

GBRf

 

[Stigy]

So just this one then? I’m waiting to start for a Foc and I believe it’s the standard 12 month course.

Colas also I believe?

plus its a recognised qualification for the hard work that the trainees put in.

Your European Train Driving Licence is basically a recognised qualification. It’s that that means you can move TOC etc along with your safety of the line record. The apprenticeship qualification may be recognised, but for what? It’s nothing without your licence and is just a piece of paper.

I understand and agree why they go down this route (funding).

 

[NorthernTech]

Or whoever ticks any other, even vague, equality box

 

[HST274]

So is it basically the same except there is an added week to achieve certain levels in certain subjects?

 

[JackO2034]

This has been a fascinating read with all the different opinions.

I have GCSE’s in English and ICT but not maths.

I’ve just applied for an apprenticeship with a TOC, so seeing that maths could be done whilst on the course is really reassuring!

I’m currently in the Police and had to an apprenticeship in my training, so I think a lot of public/private organisations are doing it!!