Are rail journeys increasingly boring ?

[billio]

It struck me that rail jouneys are becoming increasingly boring., especially in the summer.
The problem with summer is the trees. Too many of them, with leaves. On some journeys you can see nothing of the countryside. Boring.
Then there is too much tidying up and simplification of the network. No odd branches leading away from the main line. No unused sidings, buildings, unnecessary platforms, odd pointwork, languishing rolling stock, distant crumbling bridges and viaducts, built over goods yards: hardly anything to stimulate my imagination. 'Where did that line go to?'
The detective work needed to spot where a branch curved away or that old route passed over/under or that station stood is just becoming impossible, especially in the summer.
Please take me back 30, 40 maybe 50 years to that bliss of working out how the railway used to be.

 

[32475]

I use the Outside Maps phone ap provided by Ordnance Survey. You can switch to a selection of old maps which track where you are but back in time. It’s fascinating to use on a train journey so that you can see where you are passing long closed stations, junctions and branch lines.
It makes an otherwise boring journey much more exciting.

 

[Lucan]

Also the fact that it is not as easy to see out of the window as it used to be. Most seats don't align with them, and they are smaller than they used to be, Airline style seating means you have a very restricted view out if you are not by the window itself - in fact you are lucky even to spot a station name board - good job they announce it these days. The old BR Mark I coaches seemed to make a feature of their large "picture windows", but that went out of the window (so to speak) with the Mark IIIs. In particular, I don't think young children can see out of many carriage windows at all due to the high sills - I never see them doing so. As a kid I loved looking out of train windows.

Not sure whether it's cause or effect, but I rarely see even adults looking out. It is part of a cultural change I believe. Few people care any more about the aesthetics of the landscape or of townscapes, as many more did around 100 years ago - the period of the origins of the Green Belt, town planning on a public scale, the expansion of the National Trust, and the Kinder Scout "Mass Trespass" which was predominantly by young people. But the National Trust for example now has overwhelmingly elderly members, and most people now regard the countryside (what remains of it) as just a boring place waiting to be "developed" by the building of more housing estates, retail parks, or the planting of wind generators.

 

[yorksrob]

I do miss the old carriages languishing about the network. Those old Gatwick Express mk2's seemed to get everywhere at one stage.

 

[Calthrop]

It struck me that rail jouneys are becoming increasingly boring., especially in the summer.
The problem with summer is the trees. Too many of them, with leaves. On some journeys you can see nothing of the countryside. Boring.

This brings irresistibly to mind for me, a journey quite some years ago with my brother -- who tends to be a bit of an awkward cuss. On the whole, he finds my railway enthusiasm a most strange and boring attribute of mine -- he just does not "get" the attraction of railways, in any way (I feel exactly the same about his consuming passion, football: so we're even). We were briefly in South Wales -- and to my amazement he suggested, quite off his own bat, that we take a trip on the Heart of Wales line, Llanelli -- Shrewsbury and back; I had been extolling the line's scenic delights to him. This was in high summer; and all the way, he complained bitterly about the luxuriantly-growing trees close by, blocking off the supposedly glorious moors-and-mountains views. (And he's a keen environmentalist -- in theory extremely pro-trees, opining that there cannot be too many of them !) I suggested to him that a midwinter journey over the line might have been more to his liking; strongly suspect, though, that he'd find something to moan about in those circumstances, too .

 

[TheSeeker]

My local line is being expanded to four tracks with all sorts of earthworks, new bridges, stations, signaling, OLE. Interesting rolling stock with ballast trains, OLE trains, rail cranes etc.

I really enjoy my commute, there's always something going on to look at. Often there is progress between the morning and evening journey.

 

[Paul Jones 88]

I find bus journeys more exciting these days, Bus 149, Edmonton Green to London Bridge, sit at the front of the top deck and you will see some very funny things going on and some very strange people going about.

 

[nw1]

I haven't noticed less in the way of views particularly, but will agree that the railway has less character compared to the late BR days and even early privatisation. Definitely less goods yards, remaining relics of the previous era, and old coaching stock and/or units in sidings dotted around.

I remember noticing the divergence of the Godalming Old branch south of Farncombe - still prominent in the 80s - and wondering where that used to go to. I imagined (before I knew about old railways in this area) that it was a former branch to Cranleigh or somewhere like that, but that actually diverged further north.

 

[6Gman]

I think there are two themes here.

Firstly, the lack of vegetation management which has restricted views in some cases - the Blaenau Ffestiniog branch (especially the lower parts) seem a good - or bad - example of this.

Secondly, the rationalisation of both the railway and neighbouring industries. Manchester - Bolton is a good example: there used to be engine sheds, collieries and a power station (with their own railway systems and locos). Now - basically nothing.

 

[2192]

Going upstairs on a continental high speed train is to be preferred. The view is better, but even then so much of such lines seem to be in cuttings, so I wonder if the slower superceded routes would be better.

 

[Trainfan2019]

I guess it depends on which area(s) you are travelling in.

Around Staffordshire and Cheshire areas there are quite a few examples that are interesting:

Overgrown sidings around Stoke on Trent
Electromotive diesel depot at Longport
Radway Green disused station
Diesel depot, locomotive services depot and Arriva train care depot all at Crewe
Disused overgrown platforms at Crewe

 

[yorksrob]

I think of all of them, the WCML probably provides the most interest in terms of railway infrastructure.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Wait till be have to "enjoy" HS2 with its extensive tunnels and cuttings.
There will also be sound/visual barriers on populated open stretches, which suits the residents but block the view from the train and reflect the sound back on to it.
There will be no view for the first 44km (27 miles) out of Euston until Great Missenden, bar a glimpse from the Colne Valley viaduct between the two long tunnel sections.
The northern sections should be more open (fewer/shorter tunnels, more rural character).

 

[PeterC]

I have recently made several journeys from Romford to Liverpool Street and compared with my commute in 1970 it is certainly dull.

 

[Bread & cheese]

You are travelling on a Voyager on a sunny day. You would like to look out of the window. But Voyagers have pull-down blinds on their windows, and someone in a nearby seat by the same window may well have zero interest in the passing scene, preferring instead to keep that nasty sunlight out so that they can spend the entire journey glued to their phone...

 

[nw1]

Wait till be have to "enjoy" HS2 with its extensive tunnels and cuttings.
There will also be sound/visual barriers on populated open stretches, which suits the residents but block the view from the train and reflect the sound back on to it.
There will be no view for the first 44km (27 miles) out of Euston until Great Missenden, bar a glimpse from the Colne Valley viaduct between the two long tunnel sections.
The northern sections should be more open (fewer/shorter tunnels, more rural character).

This is one of my pet dislikes, lines with no views.

In France the HSLs (e.g. from Paris to Lyon/Avignon and to the Tunnel) have views - as does HS1 once you get beyond about Ebbsfleet - so it is obviously theoretically possible to create an HSL with a view.

On the other side of the coin some of the HSLs approaching Stuttgart have little or no views. The Cologne-Frankfurt isn't too bad, it traverses the hilly Westerwald so tunnels are needed at times - but there are significant open stretches so you do see something.

While you'd need a tunnel under the Chilterns it must surely be possible to keep HS2 'in the open' beyond that, until you get to the edge of Birmingham?

I have recently made several journeys from Romford to Liverpool Street and compared with my commute in 1970 it is certainly dull.

Not sure about the infrastructure, but I would have liked to have used the GEML in the days when you had all those assorted first-gen and early second-gen EMUs, in the 1980s.

I think of all of them, the WCML probably provides the most interest in terms of railway infrastructure.

Probably agree, though I last used the ECML in 1993 so cannot comment so much on that.

Certainly you've got Willesden and Crewe - as well as some interesting bits where the railway and canal are close together.

 

[zwk500]

This is one of my pet dislikes, lines with no views.

In France the HSLs (e.g. from Paris to Lyon/Avignon and to the Tunnel) have views - as does HS1 once you get beyond about Ebbsfleet - so it is obviously theoretically possible to create an HSL with a view.

It's perfectly possible to create a line with a view. Getting permission to build it is the hard part, especially in Britain where you're never very far from somebody's house. France has the advantage of more open land than we do to minimise noise pollution.

 

[billio]

Wait till be have to "enjoy" HS2 with its extensive tunnels and cuttings.
There will also be sound/visual barriers on populated open stretches, which suits the residents but block the view from the train and reflect the sound back on to it.
There will be no view for the first 44km (27 miles) out of Euston until Great Missenden, bar a glimpse from the Colne Valley viaduct between the two long tunnel sections.
The northern sections should be more open (fewer/shorter tunnels, more rural character).

I am not looking forward to that type of train journey. A line from Cologne to Franfurt has quite a few tunnels, but when I was traveling on those trains it was possible to sit behind the driver and scare yourself to death. I don't know if that's still possible.

I use the Outside Maps phone ap provided by Ordnance Survey. You can switch to a selection of old maps which track where you are but back in time. It’s fascinating to use on a train journey so that you can see where you are passing long closed stations, junctions and branch lines.
It makes an otherwise boring journey much more exciting.

I will try that out thanks. What I would really like is if the National Library of Scotland map interface would show your location dynamically. OS Maps tracks your location on a modern map, if only they offered an 'old maps' map type to switch between now and then. Geoportail, the french equivalent does that.

I do miss the old carriages languishing about the network. Those old Gatwick Express mk2's seemed to get everywhere at one stage.

Hellifield has an interesting collection, in fact the whole station creates a craving for a long lost past.

....
Secondly, the rationalisation of both the railway and neighbouring industries. Manchester - Bolton is a good example: there used to be engine sheds, collieries and a power station (with their own railway systems and locos). Now - basically nothing.

Yes I used to travel on that line and the branch towards Bury at Clifton Junction. Lots to see. The pair of rusty tracks heading towards Clifton Hall Tunnel and passing below the Bolton track had a particular touching wiff of nostalgia.

 

[32475]

I think of all of them, the WCML probably provides the most interest in terms of railway infrastructure.

I travel between Euston and Glasgow several times each year and always wish there were certain places where you can slow the train down to take in locos, rolling stock and infrastructure at certain locations such as Willesden, Bletchley, Rugby, Crewe, Carnforth, that gorgeous bit through the Howgill Fells, Carlisle Kingmoor and Polmadie. I’m sure I’m in the minority of fellow passengers. Once HS2 opens I’m sure I’ll try it once for the novelty factor but after that I’ll revert to the current route which will be the cheaper option anyway.

 

[yorksrob]

I am not looking forward to that type of train journey. A line from Cologne to Franfurt has quite a few tunnels, but when I was traveling on those trains it was possible to sit behind the driver and scare yourself to death. I don't know if that's still possible.


I will try that out thanks. What I would really like is if the National Library of Scotland map interface would show your location dynamically. OS Maps tracks your location on a modern map, if only they offered an 'old maps' map type to switch between now and then. Geoportail, the french equivalent does that.


Hellifield has an interesting collection, in fact the whole station creates a craving for a long lost past.


Yes I used to travel on that line and the branch towards Bury at Clifton Junction. Lots to see. The pair of rusty tracks heading towards Clifton Hall Tunnel and passing below the Bolton track had a particular touching wiff of nostalgia.

Ah yes, the old postal wagons, formerly Southend line slammers. I remember seeing similar regularly go through Reading when I briefly lived in the area around the turn of the century.

I travel between Euston and Glasgow several times each year and always wish there were certain places where you can slow the train down to take in locos, rolling stock and infrastructure at certain locations such as Willesden, Bletchley, Rugby, Crewe, Carnforth, that gorgeous bit through the Howgill Fells, Carlisle Kingmoor and Polmadie. I’m sure I’m in the minority of fellow passengers. Once HS2 opens I’m sure I’ll try it once for the novelty factor but after that I’ll revert to the current route which will be the cheaper option anyway.

I'm much the same with HS1. Tried it for the novelty, but always use the classic lines now.

 

[Horizon22]

I suppose it might be more 'boring' to not see "unused sidings, unnecessary platforms, languishing rolling stock and distant crumbling bridges" but in some ways it is better than Network Rail is a) taking safety of old assets seriously and b) making efficient use of land and money by selling sites on for development as needed. The vast majority of passengers aren't too bothered I imagine, listening to music, reading a book, on their phones or chatting with friends and family. If there's a good view its a bonus, but that's it.

 

[nw1]

Ah yes, the old postal wagons, formerly Southend line slammers. I remember seeing similar regularly go through Reading when I briefly lived in the area around the turn of the century.



I'm much the same with HS1. Tried it for the novelty, but always use the classic lines now.

I've never used HS1 domestically, but have used it on Eurostar a good many times.

I have had cause to go that way domestically since it opened (Canterbury) but the higher fares, and the routing via St Pancras (compared to Victoria, which is easier for me) put me off so I took the classic route.

The classic line service pattern had changed though compared to what I remember from my first visit in 1986, to account for HS1 taking the fast journeys. No non-stop Bromley South to Chatham, and limited stop afterwards, nowadays; even though the service I was on was the faster one, it still stopped at a good number of the smaller stations.

 

[32475]

This all makes me think that like some long distance trains have a ‘Quiet Carriage’, a TOC might come up with a ‘For those who actually want to look out of the window and enjoy the view’ carriage. These carriages would feature the novelty of seats which align with windows.
Or is that all just the whimsical notion of a wild imagination?

 

[zwk500]

This all makes me think that like some long distance trains have a ‘Quiet Carriage’, a TOC might come up with a ‘For those who actually want to look out of the window and enjoy the view’ carriage. These carriages would feature the novelty of seats which align with windows.
Or is that all just the whimsical notion of a wild imagination?

If enough people are willing to pay the premium to offset the loss of revenue from lower capacity its certainly something that could happen. Does Avanti's standard premium seating align properly with the windows?

 

[yorksrob]

I've never used HS1 domestically, but have used it on Eurostar a good many times.

I have had cause to go that way domestically since it opened (Canterbury) but the higher fares, and the routing via St Pancras (compared to Victoria, which is easier for me) put me off so I took the classic route.

The classic line service pattern had changed though compared to what I remember from my first visit in 1986, to account for HS1 taking the fast journeys. No non-stop Bromley South to Chatham, and limited stop afterwards, nowadays; even though the service I was on was the faster one, it still stopped at a good number of the smaller stations.

Yes, the fares are already high in the area, so I've no wish to pay the premium.

 

[greyman42]

Going back to the 70s and early 80s you never new what was going to turn up regarding loco and stock which was a bonus. Nowadays you know what your going to be travelling on.