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Discussion in 'Fares Advice & Policy' started by ess, 30 Dec 2010.
No, but they are subject to horrific rises from 2nd January. Season ticket holders are strongly urged to renew before 2nd of January. Further massive rises will follow next year too, as the Government seeks to discourage us from using rail.
in germany rail tickets are subject to VAT at 19%, but they're still cheaper than the UK
But it is worth it Fred26. Mine is only going up £200 but that is nearly 10% so if my renewal date was mid-jan it would be worth losing 2 weeks. It is June however so not worth it!
I know it is and I agree with it being suggested. It was just irrelevant to the question asked and the shock, horror tone belongs in the Mail.
That aside how much has petrol gone up over the past year it is about 123p in Scotland it was about 110p last year so moving to the car may not be such a saving when tyres, servicing etc will also be hit by the VAT increase.
For goodness sake get some perspective. Our current government is determined to reduce it's subsidy support of TOCs by 1/3rd. How else should TOCs propose to raise the lost money back other than fare rises.
I also find your use of the word horrific very disproportionate. Horrific is the Boxing Day Tsunami, horrific is a family wiped out in a car crash. Horrific is not a fare rise.
Considering that you yourself Yorkie, criticise people for wandering off topic or not answering the question posted, you veered off on a nice little rant. Did Santa bring you a bigger soapbox for Christmas?
seems reasonable to me given the context of vat increases and rail fare increases happening at the same time. calm down everyone
Whilst there's no VAT on UK rail tickets (yet!) is it because they're zero-rated or because they're exempt? (Makes no difference for most people, but it does to those who are VAT-registered!)
Passenger transport is zero-rated, which is much better than being exempt!
Bear in mind that (whilst tickets may be Zero Rated), some of the things which TOCs (and ROSCOs etc) purchase from suppliers will be affected by the VAT increase. So, they will be faced with higher costs they need to make back from somewhere...
Why are they talking of rail 'subsidy' and road 'investment' then? It's determined wrongly too - the routes are unprofitable, why should those who live in rural areas be charged disproportionately more? However, the Gov't is applying this to the rest of the England and Wales - so the premium paying operators will be able to milk it and pay more to the Gov't.
Why are we subsidising private companies to lose money at all - renationalise!
Er, are you sure?
Are any TOCs not registered for VAT? I'm sure they all should be (I'm aware of the various dispensations and thresholds but don't think that any of these would apply).
If I'm right, then they would simply be reclaiming all 'Input Tax' at the end of each quarter in the same way as every other VAT-registered body. In otherwords - there's no change.
Was just about to post what DaveNewcastle said. The TOCs can, unless they're somehow operating exempt activities somewhere else, reclaim all the VAT they pay out in expenses.
Whilst rail fares (and public transport) are zero rated for VAT there are a few exceptions for train journeys where VAT is charged-
1. A railway where only one station is open to the public ie. is out and about train rides from the same station. There are a few short Heritage Railways where this applies such as the Lavender Line at Isfield.
2. Please correct me on this but I beleive where train rides include gifts or souvenirs in the price. Thus Santa Specials including a present from Santa maybe subject to VAT.Also applies to "Day out with Thomas" events where childrens gifts are handed out.
Ah, fair enough - I thought that if a supplier to a TOC (e.g. staff uniforms) increased their price due to VAT then the TOC would have paid a higher price