Are railway byelaws on CRB?

Discussion in 'Disputes & Prosecutions' started by mallym17, 22 May 2015.

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  1. mallym17

    mallym17 New Member

    22 May 2015
    I was stopped at greenford station , gates were open i hadn't tapped.

    Anyway to fast forward TFL took me to court in my absence , they got £15 surcharge and i got conditional discharge after i explained my mitigating circumstances.

    It was the RAILWAY BYELAW 17(1)

    Question is im going to in future be working with kids , will this be on my CRB / DBS or on the PNC ?

    and do you think it will stop me from getting jobs ?

    Look forward to hearing from you
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  3. cool110

    cool110 Member

    12 Dec 2014
    No, bylaw offences are non-recordable.
  4. First class

    First class Established Member

    9 Aug 2008
    However, it would be foolish to suggest that UK Government, police and the court system would not retain details of such convictions.

    If you were to be working with children, you would be asked if you had previous convictions. You MUST answer, that, yes, you do.

    Just because it may not appear on a CRB check, does not mean you should not declare convictions. It is always better to be open and honest, and explain the minor nature of such convictions, and the lessons learnt.

    It will appear on PNC, but not DBS.

    When a TOC issues a summons, they obtain a reference number from the police, (used to be ACPO), which then tracks the case through the courts.
    Last edited by a moderator: 22 May 2015
  5. DaveNewcastle

    DaveNewcastle Established Member Fares Advisor

    21 Dec 2007
    Newcastle (unless I'm out)
    Actually, a Byelaw conviction should not normally appear on the PNC at all, (unless its prosecution was accompanied by another charge which is recordable).

    The situation is not simple, but for most situations relating to suspected fare evasion, it might be adequate to say simply:
    • Byelaw Offence = not recordable;
    • Regulation of Railways Act Offence = recordable.
    But there are nuances which can alter that simple explanation in practice:-

    The requirements for entries to be made in the Police National Computer (PNC) are defined in the National Police Records (Recordable Offences) (Amendment) Regulations (as amended). The arrangements are that a record is made in the PNC for all cautions, warnings and convictions for offences which are:
    a) capable of a custodial sentence (i.e. it carried the potential for imprisonment irrespective of the actual sentence given following any specific conviction); or
    b) listed in the schedule of Offences in the National Police Records (Recordable Offence) Regulations 2000 (a long schedule which includes fare evasion under the RoRA but not the under the RCCA and not all offences in the RoRA, some other offences against railway property, forgery, counterfeiting and fraud); or
    c) one of the specifc offences listed in the National Police Records (Recordable Offences) (Amendment) Regulations (as amended) (related to vagrancy, car hire, health workers, the licenced trade, football, prostitution, motor vehicles and others, but not fare evasion); or
    d) an offence listed in the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984 (PACE) Code D (mostly summarising all of the above).​

    To the best of my knowledge, no Byelaw conviction should be entered in the PNC, whether it is prosecuted publically (by the CPS or Police) or privately (by a Local Authority, Trust, Charity, land Agency, Harbour Master, Railway Operator, other body or private individual) unless that charge is accompanied by a recordable prosecution for the same offence, even if the other recordable offence does not lead to a conviction. What that means is that if a passenger is accused of fare evasion under both Railway Byelaw 18 and Regulation of Railways Act S.5 and no evidence is offered to convict the latter, then the succesful prosecution of the Byelaw Offence may be entered in the PNC.

    Following a conviction for a Byelaw offence in a Magistrates Court, a solicitor acting for the accused would be well placed to ensure, on behalf of the client, that no entry is triggered by the conviction, as it would be for the majority of the cases heard by that Court.

    For security vetting and checks on other sensitive roles in defence and government, investigations should include reporting prosecutions in a Magistrates Court, whether convicted or not, and whether for a 'recordable offence' or not, so it follows that a Byelaw Offence would appear during that check (but that goes beyond the scope of the PNC).
    Last edited: 23 May 2015
  6. SussexMan

    SussexMan Member

    23 Oct 2010
    Please can you provide some evidence to support your assertion?

    This report would suggest that you are incorrect.

  7. island

    island Established Member

    30 Dec 2010
    Are you sure it was Railway Byelaw 17 (1)? (And not TfL Byelaw?)

    Breaching the former is not an offence AFAIK.
  8. Gus

    Gus Member

    1 Nov 2009
    I am sure that you can buy a copy of your details held on the PNC for about £10, probably from your Police HQ.
  9. Stigy

    Stigy Established Member

    6 Nov 2009
    It won't appear on PNC if it's a Byelaw conviction. You are correct though, that one would be foolish not to declare such a conviction when asked in a job application etc, as if you answer 'no' you're lying and should you be found out, it's a matter of integrity as well as having a conviction, which I'm sure most employers would frown upon. Bear in mind that Railway Byelaws are criminal matters, so if asked if you've ever been convicted of a criminal offence, you'd have to answer 'yes'.
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