Are there any true non-stop expresses left in the UK?

[hexagon789]

I think there used to be something on a Sunday that ran non-stop Newcastle Edinburgh but that seems to have stopped.

I think I know the one you mean, though of course most XC make at least one intermediate call Newcastle-Edinburgh usually Alnmouth or Dunbar

 

[Whistler40145]

Stourbridge Junction to Stourbridge Town

Is that classed as an Express service

 

[Ianno87]

In the absence of any precise definition of the distance involved - Waterloo to Hampton Court flower show specials!

You do get the 1923 from Waterloo on a normal weekday - fast Waterloo to Surbiton, then Thames Ditton, Hampton Court.

Realtime Trains - 1J91 1923 London Waterloo to Hampton Court

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[The DJ]

I've often wondered how a path was made for the "Elizabethan Express" (1954) which left King's Cross at 9:30 AM for a non stop journey to Edinburgh. A fast moving service with apparently a clear run.

 

[6Gman]

Agreed - but why let practically get in the way of "PR" ...

In those far off days , changing locomotives at Grantham was deemed a sensible policy to boost reliabilty , and even in Deltic days , the London crews lodged overnight I understand in Newcastle. Different times , different standards.

I actually stayed in a Newcastle B&B once and was surprised to encounter Kings Cross men lodging there.

I've often wondered how a path was made for the "Elizabethan Express" (1954) which left King's Cross at 9:30 AM for a non stop journey to Edinburgh. A fast moving service with apparently a clear run.

Reading the railway magazines of the period there were regular complaints of signal stops en route.

Plenty of enthusiasts complaining that they'd made a special effort (and incurred no little expense) to travel non-stop from London to Edinburgh (or vice-versa) only to be halted several times.

As others have said, it was a PR exercise in that period where the dismal post-war period met the optimism of "the New Elizabethan era".

 

[Whistler40145]

Would the Scottish Sleepers count when diverted via the ECML as when they do stop, usually for crew changes and not timetabled for passengers

 

[30907]

I've often wondered how a path was made for the "Elizabethan Express" (1954) which left King's Cross at 9:30 AM for a non stop journey to Edinburgh. A fast moving service with apparently a clear run.

The previous train to Newcastle was at 7.50am (apart from a dated Tyne Commission Quay service, which must have been looped somewhere (York?), so not a problem. Freights and stoppers were always down the pecking order. Southbound equally unproblematic - amazing how things have changed.

 

[dk1]

Would the Scottish Sleepers count when diverted via the ECML as when they do stop, usually for crew changes and not timetabled for passengers

I think this has been covered earlier in the thread.

 

[Whistler40145]

I think this has been covered earlier in the thread.

Blame my age, time for a Senior Moment

 

[dk1]

Blame my age, time for a Senior Moment

Not at all mate. It's tedious sometimes trawling through the replies when the thread gets long.

 

[Deepgreen]

You do get the 1923 from Waterloo on a normal weekday - fast Waterloo to Surbiton, then Thames Ditton, Hampton Court.

Realtime Trains - 1J91 1923 London Waterloo to Hampton Court

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Indeed; I only didn't include it as I went for the end-to-end non-stop. It's a real oddity, presumably done to give an extra Surbiton fast rather than for Hampton Court passengers.

 

[70014IronDuke]

Via Toton back in the day too, think was only passenger train to do that, this was in days of the Peaks though

When the Cutler was first transferred to the Midland, it ran via Derby, often with a Tinsley 47 (at least on the up working). It was re-routed via the Erewash in, I think, May 1970. But I also think it stopped at Leicester in those days.

There was a SuO St Pancras -Sheffield working via the Erewash sometime in the 90s or 2000s. I think it was about 17.30 off St Pancras. Would have been HST, I presume.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

When I lived in Nottingham around 2005 there were a couple of evening St Pancras-Nottingham fast trains which were extended via Alfreton to Sheffield and Leeds. I don’t recall direct trains avoiding both Derby and Nottingham but there may have been the odd one in the peaks.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Plymouth to Exeter had lots of non stop trains in the 90s/early-00s but nowadays no XC ones and only a couple of GWR ones.

 

[Speed43125]

stopped on a non-platform line at Newton Abbot to attach a pilot locomotive (inside the train engine of course, so it took twice as long!)

May I suggest that it was common enough to ignore the official policy and just stick it on the front of the train engine.

 

[E100]

Anecdotal storytime from a few years back... ...A good friend of mine's sister who lived in Preston and worked in Lancaster would catch the same train each day. Same platform etc etc. One day running quite late she didn't do her normal check of where the train was going (dashed for the doors) and accidentally boarded a Preston - Euston non-stopper that for some reason was on the other side (down side i.e. platform 3). As soon as the train left going the wrong way she realised and assumed she could get off at wigan only for the guard to then explain the situation shortly after flying through wigan. She was in tears and thankfully the guard was very sympathetic and the guard escorted her to the next train north and put her in first class back to Preston with the other guard's agreement (having well and truly missed her shift).

 

[bluesfromagun]

The last really long distance non stop express in the UK was the Elizabethan from Kings Cross to Edinburgh, with crews changing over half way via the corridor tender. This ended in 1962 when the Deltics took over. With modern multiple unit trains, I see no practical reason why a similar non stop run couldn't happen with a crew change on the move half way but no doubt all sorts of modern regulations would prevent it.
Population density in the UK works against such non stop runs and the development of places like Peterborough, Reading, Swindon, Milton Keynes etc. means that they are usually too important to miss.
This is the opposite of what has happened in aviation, when long distance routes to Australia and the far east used to be multi stop affairs but now we have a non stop flight to Australia and the industry would like to eliminate as many en-route stops as possible. On these very long haul services, of course, crews change over "on the move"!

Your first point is an interesting one. Guards changing over on the move is easy enough, drivers is a little more challenging but not impossible. I don't even think the rulebook mentions such a possibility anymore, but some trains have a DSD button to allow the driver to take their foot off the dead man pedal by keeping their finger on the button instead. This allows them to rest their legs or whatever. You could feasibly press that, get out of the seat, and take your finger off the button once your relief had sat down and put their foot on the pedal. It would need a lot of risk assessing though and I doubt any TOC would be keen on the risk associated with the minute or two this took, along with the brief conversation between the two drivers about any defects with the train etc

 

[AverageTD]

Although not regular, back in the SWT days some depot moves out of Strawberry Hill were run in service to Waterloo as expresses. These normally ran Strawberry Hill, Twickenham, Waterloo or sometimes just Twickenham, Waterloo. Only took 15-20 mins but still non-stop end to end.

 

[bussnapperwm]

In normal times Victoria has an express to Gatwick

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

How long is it since there was a non-stop service timetabled between London and Brighton?

 

[hexagon789]

How long is it since there was a non-stop service timetabled between London and Brighton?

Wasn't the Brighton Belle the last? Certainly in 1984 and all my subsequent all-line timetables a stop at East Croydon is the minimum.

 

[Statto]

I haven't looked at the timetables recently, but pre covid there was a Monday to Friday Liverpool-Euston which ran non stop Runcorn-Euston, southbound left Liverpool around 7am, the northbound journey was the first Liverpool service after the evening peak just after 7pm, the service took about 2 hours

 

[dk1]

Wasn't the Brighton Belle the last? Certainly in 1984 and all my subsequent all-line timetables a stop at East Croydon is the minimum.

Remember catching the hourly (or was it half hourly?) East Croydon only (or was it Clapham Jcn?) In the late 90s. They refurbed some 319s with 2+2 seating & super wide aisle & generous legroom. May also have been a Costa or something similar bar/area.

 

[hexagon789]

I haven't looked at the timetables recently, but pre covid there was a Monday to Friday Liverpool-Euston which ran non stop Runcorn-Euston, southbound left Liverpool around 7am, the northbound journey was the first Liverpool service after the evening peak just after 7pm, the service took about 2 hours

The 0700 LIV-EUS seems to still only call Runcorn; the 1907 EUS-LIV calls at Milton Keynes Central though as well as Runcorn

 

[dk1]

The 0700 LIV-EUS seems to still only call Runcorn; the 1907 EUS-LIV calls at Milton Keynes Central though as well as Runcorn

The down service has only done that since Covid. Became Runcorn only around 2015 due to serious crowding especially Thursday & Fridays.

 

[hexagon789]

Remember catching the hourly (or was it half hourly?) East Croydon only (or was it Clapham Jcn?) In the late 90s. They refurbed some 319s with 2+2 seating & super wide aisle & generous legroom. May also have been a Costa or something similar bar/area.

Think it was just a trolley which slotted into a specifically converted section with counter same as in the TSOT conversions. They did get linespeed increased to 100mph for the 319s to allow for a slightly quicker schedule schedule iirc

The down service has only done that since Covid. Became Runcorn only around 2015 due to serious crowding especially Thursday & Fridays.

What was it previously then?

 

[dk1]

Think it was just a trolley which slotted into a specifically converted section with counter same as in the TSOT conversions. They did get linespeed increased to 100mph for the 319s to allow for a slightly quicker schedule schedule iirc


What was it previously then?

Stafford like all the other xx:07s & I think Crewe was added too at some point. That's easily served by the 18:57 (THFO) Manchester but not sure who got the Stafford stop. Possibly the 18:46(FO) Preston/Blackpool or the 19:10 Holyhead.

 

[paul1609]

I think the longest non stop scheduled journey from a UK station pre covid would have been the down South Of France Eurostar.
Ashford International to Lyon Part Dieu. 413 miles (the up service stops at Lille). I think this beats Kings Cross to Edinburgh.

 

[plugwash]

Does the Cambridge cruiser still run in these times non stop?

Most of the "cambridge cruisers" got extended beyond cambridge a few years back after cambridge north was built and cambridge was expanded with more through platforms. There are a handful in the morning that terminate at cambridge, but they all seem to have extra stops.

Realtime Trains - Departures from Cambridge

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[hexagon789]

Stafford like all the other xx:07s & I think Crewe was added too at some point. That's easily served by the 18:57 (THFO) Manchester but not sure who got the Stafford stop. Possibly the 18:46(FO) Preston/Blackpool or the 19:10 Holyhead.

Cheers, makes sense really

I think this beats Kings Cross to Edinburgh.

Correct, KGX-EDB is 393 miles. Even EUS-GLC is only 401.25mi