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Are too loud and too many PRM alarms and announcements making travellers uptight.....

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initiation

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It's not unusual to get 5 announcements in 2 mins at Temple Meads

1. Platform 10 for the...
2 We are sorry to announce the 1800 is delayed by 2 minutes.
3. The next train to arrive at Platform 10...
4. Police/terrorism/baggage announcement
5. The train now arriving at Platform 10...

Then there is the on-board announcement once the doors have opened 'please do not try to board or leave the train when the doors are closing'....completely pointless! And the tone it is said in grates.


So, how do get TOCs to change this?
 
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RJ21

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So, how do get TOCs to change this?

Nag MPs to legislate against it?

It's interesting when you get to the very end of the day, at Picc the announcements are near enough never ending but turning up at 23:00 heading for one of the last services it is pleasantly quiet.
As for door alarms, I popped up the road on Sunday and happened to be on the road 20ft below the railway and with the station building between me and the 156 with a newly fitted door release alarm. It was clearly audible from the road, probably reflected off the adjacent pub, but need I say any more?
 

BurtonM

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'doors will open on the left hand side':

The problem with this is formal English is too drawn out.
The Berlin U-Bahn, in its raw functional style, makes do with 'Ausstieg: links'.

It's not really possible to say something like that in so few words in Englsih.
 

Parallel

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It's not unusual to get 5 announcements in 2 mins at Temple Meads

1. Platform 10 for the...
2 We are sorry to announce the 1800 is delayed by 2 minutes.
3. The next train to arrive at Platform 10...
4. Police/terrorism/baggage announcement
5. The train now arriving at Platform 10...

Then there is the on-board announcement once the doors have opened 'please do not try to board or leave the train when the doors are closing'....completely pointless! And the tone it is said in grates.


So, how do get TOCs to change this?

Indeed. I mean, we can expect more announcements at the larger stations but there are just too many. IIRC at Temple Meads, each train is announced at least three times, the first with where the train calls at, the second being shorter and where the origin station was, and the third is another calling pattern just as the train arrives. If there is considerable dwell time, there is a fourth with "the train at platform x is the". Then you have one about luggage, one about See it, Say it, Sorted. One about a timely departure, one about standing behind the yellow line, one about minding the gap between the train and platform, one about penalty fares, one for not boarding terminating trains if they are not intended for travel... the list goes on.

I don't mind the train service updates but I hate when there are so many generic safety ones, these are played over the service updates. Should be the other way around IMO
 

Spartacus

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Yep, and when there's so many announcements people, especially regular passengers, tune out and it just becomes part of the background noise, so much so that they won't recognise if there's an announcement that they would need to hear, often staff having to shout it out, over the din of Digital Doris.
 

mallard

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'doors will open on the left hand side':

The problem with this is formal English is too drawn out.
The Berlin U-Bahn, in its raw functional style, makes do with 'Ausstieg: links'.

It's not really possible to say something like that in so few words in Englsih.

Except that they do say the equivalent in English on many services across the continent (including on the Berlin U-Bahn at major stations). "Exit on the left/right." is the usual form. Absolutely nothing wrong with using the exact same wording in the UK.
 

Via Bank

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'doors will open on the left hand side':

The problem with this is formal English is too drawn out.
The Berlin U-Bahn, in its raw functional style, makes do with 'Ausstieg: links'.

It's not really possible to say something like that in so few words in Englsih.
Is it really? “Exit: left”, “exit on the left” or even “doors open on the left” are perfectly acceptable.

We are mercifully starting to see some sense in a few places. The new Crossrail trains use short sentences and have minimal guff. “This is the train to Shenfield.” “Next station: Manor Park.” To the point, and also better for visitors and people who struggle to hear and understand long, rambly announcements.

But the problem is often that people in charge think “here is some potential danger, something must be done.” An announcement is something relatively easy to do, but people don’t properly think about the consequences of information overload.
 

Taunton

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'doors will open on the left hand side':

The problem with this is formal English is too drawn out.
The Berlin U-Bahn, in its raw functional style, makes do with 'Ausstieg: links'.

It's not really possible to say something like that in so few words in Englsih.
Exit. Stage Left :) (with acknowledgement to a certain cartoon character of long ago that few will remember).
 

initiation

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So I asked GWR on twitter - they responded 'Announcements are needed for safety purposes and passenger information'

I asked if they consider 5 announcements in 2-3 minutes as necessary and if airports where no regular announcements occur are potentially unsafe...no response yet
 

takno

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So I asked GWR on twitter - they responded 'Announcements are needed for safety purposes and passenger information'

I asked if they consider 5 announcements in 2-3 minutes as necessary and if airports where no regular announcements occur are potentially unsafe...no response yet
I wouldn't complain too loudly. They'll only add in another announcement apologising for all the announcements but making it clear that they are essential because otherwise you, the valued customer, will most certainly go to the wrong platform, and abandon your baggage to have a picnic on the line.
 

High Dyke

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If travelling public have commented on the amount of allarms and volume level, then spare a thought for the drivers and guards that have to put up with the same door alarm noises at every station that particular service calls at. The refurbished EMT cl.158 units are particularly annoying.
 

BanburyBlue

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I think they must have forgotten about that. The Thames Turbos have very long winded announcements about not boarding the train when the doors are closing (since the incident at Hayes & Harlington), the Great Western electrification and how wires are now live and you should be careful when carrying long items, as well as all that See it Say it Sorted stuff, and it happens at virtually every station as far as I can think.

Yes, had that this week on a trip to Maidenhead. Continual - no chance of 5 minutes kip. I like the warning about the overhead electric lines, and being careful 'especially if carrying long items'.

Slightly off topic, but can never understand why drivers on Chiltern tell you where the train is going once it has departed from Marylebone, rather than before the doors close?
 

Chris M

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If travelling public have commented on the amount of allarms and volume level, then spare a thought for the drivers and guards that have to put up with the same door alarm noises at every station that particular service calls at. The refurbished EMT cl.158 units are particularly annoying.
For on-train announcment overload try the East London Line core. There's barely there's barely time for a breath between Surrey Quays and Whitechapel.
"This is a London Overground service to Highbury and Islington. The next station is Canada Water, change for the Jubilee Line. Please note that the doors in the last carriage will not open a the next station, please move towards the front of the train to exit. Due to a short platform you can only alight from the front 4 coaches at the next station, please ensure that you are travelling in the correct part of the train. This is coach 3 of 5. This is Canada Water, change here for the Jubilee line. Please note that due to a short platform you can only alight from the from the front 4 coaches at the this station, please ensure you are travelling in the correct part of the train. This is coach 3 of 5. This is the London Overground service to Highbury and Islington, the next station is Rotherhithe. Please note that the doors in the front carriage will not open at the next station, please move towards the rear of the train to exit. Please note that due to a short platform you can only alight from the rear four coaches at the next station, please ensure you are travelling in the correct part of the train. This is coach 3 of 5. This is Rotherhithe. Please note that due to a short platform you can only alight from the rear four coaches at this station, please ensure you are travelling in the correct part of the train. This is coach 3 of 5. This is the London Overground service to Highbury and Islington, the next station is Shadwell. Please note that due to a short platform...."
 

Via Bank

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See, I think there are three problems here. Sorry, this is going to be quite a long post. Nothing new for me, but oh well. ;)

The first (and most obvious) is that people in the industry are obsessed with sounding 'professional' and being unambiguous, to the point where it's a fault.

A pretty much ubiquitous example would be the wet weather announcements. A personal (non-) favourite is from Stratford, where someone says something like this, often as often as once a minute:

"Customer information announcement: due to the current adverse weather conditions, customers are advised to take extreme care while moving around the station, as floor surfaces may be slippery when wet."​

That. Repeatedly. If memory serves, it seems to always be playing somewhere on the station. It does my neck in, and almost certainly makes people turn off or turn their music up.

A lot of the language used here is unnecessarily formal and wordy, for no real reason other than to be unambiguous ('floor surfaces', as opposed to other surfaces? 'Adverse' weather rather than wet weather? Use of the passive voice?) Here's an alternative version of that announcement:

"The floor is wet today. Please be careful."​

This removes a lot of the unnecessary guff, and uses simple, short words which non-native English speakers, children, and people will learning difficulties are more likely to understand. It sounds less formal, but that's the point. The passenger's "ear-time" is at a premium, and if it sounds like it's going to go on forever, they're just going to turn off. Use that "ear-time" wisely.

The second problem, I think, is that people often don't make announcements to solve a specific customer need. Instead, they make an announcement so they can say "I told you so" when something goes wrong. The audience is not the customer; it is their own boss, or their own legal department.

A non-rail example, but still closely related, can be found on London buses. Some context: Westminster Bridge is having protected cycleways installed, and this includes the Dutch "floating" bus stop design - the cycleway goes behind the bus stop, bus users access the shelter by crossing the cycleway. This way, everyone's happy: bus drivers don't have to play leapfrog with cyclists, your gran can comfortably pootle along to the shops on her rusty old Gazelle, bus users have a place they can wait that's out of the way of people cycling and other pedestrians.

St. Thomas's Hospital decided this would be dangerous, and lobbied quite extensively against the scheme. Part of the compromise reached with TfL was that there would be an announcement on buses, warning bus users of the danger of approaching cyclists. This has now been deployed on existing bus routes which already have the floating bus stops, such as route 25 (which parallels the CS2 protected cycle track between Aldgate East and Stratford.)

I'm not opposed to the idea in principle. British people aren't used to the idea of a floating bus stop. It's probably a good idea to remind people to take care… except, the announcement that's played on the buses plays at every single stop that has a bypass. And it's unnecessarily wordy, too (see problem 1.) "Caution: there is a cycle lane behind this bus stop. Use the crossing point." As before, people simply turn off.

Maybe it could be better worded. As simple as "look out for bicycles when leaving the bus."

However, the question I'd ask here is "who's the audience of this announcement"? Is it the bus passenger? Or is it St. Thomas's Hospital?

What's the announcement's primary function? Is it to tell a tourist getting off the bus to watch out, so they don't get mown down by your gran on her bike laden with shopping? Or is it to tell St. Thomas's Hospital that TfL have thought about the hypothetical risk of people having to cross the cycleway?

The third problem, related to the second, is that people make announcements as a 'default solution,' without thinking about what's actually causing the problem.

Let's examine the stairs example for this one. You know the one. "Please hold the handrail whilst using the stairs, and do not run or rush. It is advisable when using the stairs not to use mobile devices to send messages, watch videos, or play games."

As in problem two, what's clearly happened here is: someone fell and hurt themselves quite badly on the stairs; management tells middle manager "do something"; middle manager tells underling on the station "make announcement to tell the punters not to hurt themselves."

As before, this is more an announcement so they can say "I told you so" when someone falls over, hurts themselves, and threatens to sue for compensation. It won't actually do anything to avoid conditions where people with a dodgy knee end up running down the stairs, late for a train, well away from a handrail, lose their footing and go thunk. And it won't stop someone from answering a text while descending the staircase and then crashing into someone else.

The answer here is not an announcement. The solution is to make adjustments to the stairs to add more handrails, reduce the trip risk. Or it's to install a lift, or an escalator, etc. Or maybe it's to install benches, so people have a place where they can sit down and answer texts/watch Game of Thrones/etc.

All of these cost money, which is quite hard to come by these days. An announcement costs very little. Unfortunately I'd suspect it's about as good as a placebo at actually making a difference - but it allows the station manager to say "well, I did something."

There are other problems too. Poor zoning, for instance (why does LUL advertise contactless payment to me while I'm already on the platforms, and have therefore already paid?), poor pronunciation, out-of-date announcements (eg for wet weather) playing, badly-adjusted microphones and speakers, etc. But the three things above are the main problems I've observed.

Sorry. This post got out of hand. I'll stop now.
 

causton

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Sorry. This post got out of hand. I'll stop now.

This one is a lot shorter: I agree with most, if not all, of that post! It seems no matter how many times announcements are made that people do not listen and I believe it is the fault of the many incorrect, inaccurate, irrelevant or indecipherable announcements that people have to listen to on a day to day basis.
 

DMU180

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It'd do to remove all the waffle. Announcements about forgetting your bags are not necessary. The Goverment needs to pack in with the requirements for them.

All a regional train needs is what it gets in Switzerland, such as (made-up example):-

(once, while doors are open at intermediate stations, and maybe twice at termini)

"[bong] London Midland service to London Euston calling at [...]"

(once on departing a station)

"[bong] Next station Bletchley"

(on door release)

"[bong] Bletchley"

(on departure from stop before terminus)

"[bong] Next station London Euston where this train terminates. All passengers please leave the train at this station."

(on arrival at terminus)

"[bong] London Euston, terminus. All passengers please leave the train."

That would be entirely sufficient. The pleasantries are not needed.

I notice that London Buses did actually trim their announcements a bit - the original iBus trial on the 168 used to do "Route 168 to Hampstead Heath" and the "Route" was dropped as a completely spurious ear-worm.

The "bong" should be a nice relaxing sound, the Mk3 guitar strum would also work. Its purpose is to tune you into the announcement so you don't need "ladies and gentlemen" or any similar waffle[1].

As for the door opening alerts, they are a horrible noise. Some kind of pleasant "ding dong" type sound would be fine. I also think a different sound is needed for "doors closing on a timer" and "doors closing as we are departing".

[1] Has anyone noticed that the Class 700 for manual announcements has the Dutch 3-tone "bong" as found on NS and at Schiphol Airport? Wonder why it ended up with that?

You've given me a good chuckle with your very matter of fact announcements. Reminds me of the time I was flying with Iberia from Madrid to Malaga and the captain's announcements were very matter of fact. Upon taxing to the runway he simply said "Take off is imminent" and before landing he said "landing is imminent" no pleasantries at all. Quite unnerving if you missed the first part and just heard "imminent!" Glad I'm not a nervous flyer!
 

Parallel

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A great one from my local station the other day:
*Bing bong* To ensure a timely departure, train doors will be locked shut up to 40 seconds before departure.

Followed straight after by... :lol:

*Bing bong* We are sorry to announce that the 11.16 service to Cardiff Central is delayed by approximately 53 minutes. This is due to signalling problems.
 

Smidster

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Yes - There are far too many pointless announcements which do nothing but make you tune out to one that might actually matter to you.

Some particular examples:

1) Where you have an electronic announcement that is immediately followed by a human telling you exactly the same information
2) I was on a delayed service the other day and every 2-3 minutes the tannoy would whir into action "the next stop is xxxx" You mean it hasn't changed in the last couple of minutes we have been staring at a field?

And we now have the joy of announcements on buses so sadly not just a rail thing
 

mallard

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Where you have an electronic announcement that is immediately followed by a human telling you exactly the same information

Or worse, when an electronic announcement is interrupted by a human saying exactly the same thing. Just means it takes longer for the relevant information to be conveyed!

As another, unrelated, category of utterly useless announcements, my local TOC have decided to start making announcements for (and displaying on the departure boards) certain local bus services. This kinda makes a little bit of sense; they do issue "through" (not just PlusBus) tickets that are valid on this particular bus service. However, they've done just about everything possible wrong:
  • The automated announcement system does not have a recording for the bus destination! The departure board system doesn't have the correct text for it either, displaying an internal railway industry code that means nothing to passengers.
  • The bus is announced as a "<TOC> Service" when it's actually run by the local bus company (which is not even part of the same group as the TOC) and is branded as such.
  • The bus is announced as going to "only" (trying to say "<destination> only", but due to the first point it can't) despite having multiple stops. So when (if) they can be bothered to create a recording for the destination, it'll needlessly confuse passengers who want to use the bus to go to intermediate stops.
So the complete announcement goes something like "Outside the station for the <TOC> bus service to only." with multiple repeats for the every 10-20 minute bus service. Complete and total failure to give any useful information.
 

Chris M

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Quite unnerving if you missed the first part and just heard "imminent!" Glad I'm not a nervous flyer!
This is actually the reason for a bing-bong or "Ladies and gentlemen" or similar at the start of the message - people not expecting the announcement take a couple of seconds before they start processing what is being said. With an introduction none of the information-conveying part of the message is lost. There are many announcements that go overboard with this though, you don't need more than 1-2 seconds in most circumstances.
An ideal message should be structured either: "Intro, single important bit", "intro, first important bit, least important bit, second important bit" or "intro, really important bit, least important bit, really important bit again." This is because people remember the start and end more than they do the middle. Training courses should also be structured in the same way for the same reason.
 

Parallel

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This is why I much prefer “the next train to arrive at platform 1” or “the next train to depart from platform 1” or “The train now approaching platform 1” or “The train at platform 1...” rather than just “platform 1 for the...”

It’s a rare case where more words are actually better as it gives you more time to zone in (IMO anyway)
 

bramling

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The second problem, I think, is that people often don't make announcements to solve a specific customer need. Instead, they make an announcement so they can say "I told you so" when something goes wrong. The audience is not the customer; it is their own boss, or their own legal department.

This is so true.

As an example:
<senior manager to middle manager> "There's been an increase in the number of accidents on escalators. Do something about it."
<middle manager to senior manager> "Staff have been instructed to make announcements."
<senior manager to middle manager> "Good work."

Everyone can then say they've done something. Unfortunately some people in these sorts of positions simply aren't bright enough to think of anything more effective than announcements.
 

adrock1976

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What's it called? It's called Cumbernauld
I changed trains at Cardiff Central yesterday, and was enjoying a quiet coffee in Upper Crust when a repeated announcement was made: "Will the Superintendent please go to the depot".
It went on and on, annoying everybody. You couldn't engage in normal converstion while it was on.
It then changed to "Fire has been discovered on the station".
Eventually a real voice came on to say there was no fire and to disregard the announcement because it was a test.
But both announcements kept going for maybe 10 minutes, before they finally subsided.
For me, the test failed miserably.
You should not bombard the public with possibly distressing fake emergency announcements.
If they must conduct such tests, they should be out of hours.

Glad to see the IEP on-train announcements were just about right - clear, timely and non-repetitive.
Later I used an ATW 175, and we were back into pointless repeated announcements about litter/security/not smoking/low platforms/belongings and Thank You.
Just give thanks we don't have to hear the whole lot repeated in Welsh.
Then onto a 158 whose PIS was incapable of doing more than scrolling "Welcome to Arriva Trains Wales".
I don't really understand why the railway finds it so difficult to get the little things right.

For public announcements (except for evacuations) and radio use, I was under the impression that the word "fire" must not be used, so as to prevent causing distress to any members of the public who may be within earshot.

For example, when I have done festival stewarding, for a waste paper basket size fire, "Mr Ash" is used (and stewards could deal with that themselves using the supplied fire extinguishers), with "Mr England" used for anything bigger that would require the on site fire service to attend. It was reiterated during the briefing and on site training that the word "fire" must not be used, so as to avoid causing distress to the general public who may be within earshot of the radio or radio holder.
 

Chris M

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I caught a train from London Bridge to Charing Cross at lunchtime today (Thurs 9th November). Crossing over the Thames there was a recorded announcement, slightly longer than ideal, but not too bad given the amount of information needing to be conveyed. The problem was that it was advance warning about the August bank holiday Thameslink works meaning no trains into Charring Cross. That was over two months ago now, but there was no mention that there will be no trains into Charing Cross between Christmas and New Year. If this is a regular announcement still (I don't know, it's been a good number of months since I last made this journey) then regular passengers will just tune it out and wont notice when it's changed to give useful information.
 

geoffwba

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I think that generally there are too many announcements, particularly at the larger stations, to the extent that passengers get confused and the information just washes over them. Although I am not a frequent rail traveller (being retired), I do use local services for shopping and sightseeing trips. I have found on many occasions usually when just having boarded a train, that someone will come up to me and ask "is this the train for such and such?", when the information is on the station departure boards, the train's information displays and from the public announcements. IS this because of the information overload I wonder?
 

Peter Sarf

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At least the railways are not as bad as the following :-

"Please hold on, the bus is about to move".

What is totally pointless and embarrassing about this announcement is that I have deduced it is played on about 70% of the times the bus has completed a gear change from first to second - so the bus is moving quite steadily by then !. I first started hearing this announcement on Friday morning (12/01/2018) and since then I have only heard it timed correctly on two occasions - that is before the bus moved. The other approximately forty occasions are once the bus has completed a gear change from first to second !.

I never ever expected this sort of thing to happen in Britain !.
 

joncombe

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At least the railways are not as bad as the following :-

"Please hold on, the bus is about to move".

What is totally pointless and embarrassing about this announcement is that I have deduced it is played on about 70% of the times the bus has completed a gear change from first to second - so the bus is moving quite steadily by then !. I first started hearing this announcement on Friday morning (12/01/2018) and since then I have only heard it timed correctly on two occasions - that is before the bus moved. The other approximately forty occasions are once the bus has completed a gear change from first to second !.

I never ever expected this sort of thing to happen in Britain !.

We can't be far off the point where there will be constant announcements on London buses. Would drive me mad, I only hope my local bus service does not decide to copy this!
 

185143

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I though no one could make a more irritating onboard announcement that the drivel Northern 319s come out with...

Then I used the accessible toilet facility on a Pendo!
 

lammergeier

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At least the railways are not as bad as the following :-

"Please hold on, the bus is about to move".

What is totally pointless and embarrassing about this announcement is that I have deduced it is played on about 70% of the times the bus has completed a gear change from first to second - so the bus is moving quite steadily by then !. I first started hearing this announcement on Friday morning (12/01/2018) and since then I have only heard it timed correctly on two occasions - that is before the bus moved. The other approximately forty occasions are once the bus has completed a gear change from first to second !.

I never ever expected this sort of thing to happen in Britain !.

Good grief, that really is bad. I don't know how the poor drivers put up with that rubbish I really don't, bad enough for the long suffering pax as well of course.

My spotify subscription and decent earphones are always with me when out and about on public transport!
 

BluePenguin

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I was on a Southeastern train today. As we were pulling away the announcements started playing. I noticed that they have changed and now say the same thing but differently. The announcement went on for a good 3 minutes about the calling points, short platforms and minding the map. We were nearly at the next station by the time it ended!
 
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