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Are we sacrificing the young generation without reasonable justification?

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Huntergreed

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As a member of the younger generation in society, I'm beginning to have very serious concerns on the long term social and economic impact of the current 'lockdown' on our generation.

With schools having now shut for 3 months, that's around 3-4% of a child's education been taken away from them (and I'm sorry but online learning just isn't as effective no matter how hard you try). This is even worse in universities when taking 2-3 months off of an academic year could result in around 10% of a whole degree being nullified. The lasting impacts on many industries of these statistics I imagine will eventually become apparent. If this goes on for any longer, young people are no longer going to have the necessary skills and knowledge to apply for any FE or HE course. If this happens, the detrimental impact on society will be unimaginable.

For many university students, the impact on mental wellbeing and attainment will be significant. Many universities have implemented 'no detriment' policies to try and prevent their students being marked unfairly harshly when they've not received the same quality of education online, which has essentially made degrees easier to pass and meant that many graduates may not be as qualified or as skilled as needed to be successful in today's (now half dead) graduate job market.

For young primary children, I can only imagine the psychological damage this is doing. The lack of social contact, and with it the opportunity to develop social skills is surely depriving our children the chance to learn how to form and maintain meaningful friendships and relationships with others. Are we really going to teach our young children that this is the type of society where we need to stay 2m apart from everyone, constantly live in a state of anxiety, and deprive them of any facial expressions through excessive mask wearing without strong science behind it?

For secondary pupils who are due to sit exams, this has arguably had an impact on their whole life, as with teachers now choosing grades, secondary students may no longer be able to follow their desired career path simply due to the fact that they didn't perform well during the year (as a recent pupil and student teacher, I know many students don't perform amazingly over the year but then work hard for the exam). I think this is wholly unacceptable and that we are arguably destroying the future dreams and aspirations of many high school students and leavers.

Whilst it may not be a massive concern quite yet, mental wellbeing of the younger generation must be considered much more than it is at present. My university for instance today announced that they'll be moving online for academic year 2020/21, and for many of us who were holding onto this as something to motivate us through this situation, this was a massive blow to our mental wellbeing. If we persist in this ridiculously cautious method to easing restrictions, I imagine the motivation of many young people to complete coursework and pursue 'online' learning will diminish rapidly, and I hate to say it but I imagine a rise in suicide will be inevitable.

On a wider note, the economic damage that this is causing will have massive implications on the younger generation. The graduate job market is going to be absolutely dire for arguably many years to come due to the increasing damage we are doing everyday we insist on lockdown and social distancing.

So my question is simply, is all of this damage we are doing to the young generation REALLY necessary to not overwhelm the NHS, and if not then why are the government which I elected now choosing to sacrifice the prospects and mental wellbeing of millions of people in this generation on a 'just in case' basis or to prove a political point?
 
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MikeWM

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Yes, a thousand times. What is happening here is downright disgraceful.
 

Richard Scott

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As someone who works in education this is extremely frustrating. We are forcing youngsters to stay home and they have no say. I'd happily support anyone who wants to be realistic about this and get youngsters their education. The risk of them being is school, I believe, is minimal compared to the emotional and educational damage all our youngsters are suffering. Time someone had the guts to stand up to this and stop delivering what the public think they want i.e. continued closures. We need a sense of reality now before it's too late. If a second wave comes we may just have to live and work through it otherwise this could go on for years.
 

nedchester

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As a 57 year old I absolutely agree.

My son (18) is potentially having his university studies ruined and my daughter (15) is having her GCSEs messed about. Add to the fact that their generation were to be the first generation to be poorer than the previous one then a pity the future for them. They will also have to pay for this mess when they start working.
 

Iskra

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Guess who will end up paying for it too...

Older decision-making generations have been screwing over following generations for a long time now, it's nothing new.
 

Huntergreed

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Guess who will end up paying for it too...

Older decision-making generations have been screwing over following generations for a long time now, it's nothing new.
I would argue that this is on a scale much greater than we've seen before and the damage we are doing will go down in history books as 'awful', a complete 'overreaction', and I fear 'unnecessary'
 

Richard Scott

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Just hope the older generation don't moan when the younger generation tell them there's not enough money in their pension pot for an increase due to the decisions they made in 2020!
 

squizzler

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The prospects of the younger generation risk being trashed by the climate crisis, as Greta Thunberg established beyond reasonable doubt over the last couple of years. It is too early to tell whether the so-called lockdown is will materially compound this.
 

underbank

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Time someone had the guts to stand up to this and stop delivering what the public think they want i.e. continued closures. We need a sense of reality now before it's too late. If a second wave comes we may just have to live and work through it otherwise this could go on for years.

I thought it was the teachers and their unions who don't want schools to restart?
 

underbank

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Just hope the older generation don't moan when the younger generation tell them there's not enough money in their pension pot for an increase due to the decisions they made in 2020!

Quite a high proportion of today's pensioners have final salary/gold plated public sector pensions, so won't be affected by market conditions.
 

Nicholas43

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As a (so far, healthy) 76 year old, I agree that under 25s are bearing an unfair cost, and risking unfair long-term harm. I'd like to see schools and universities re-opening, with well-considered measures to protect vulnerable teachers. That could mean, in universities for example, only on-line lectures, because lecture theatres will spread infection quickly among the students, and thence to the staff and the public. But lecture theatres are obsolete technology anyway. Sensibly distanced seminars and libraries seem to me practicable.
 

hexagon789

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As a member of the younger generation in society, I'm beginning to have very serious concerns on the long term social and economic impact of the current 'lockdown' on our generation.

With schools having now shut for 3 months, that's around 3-4% of a child's education been taken away from them (and I'm sorry but online learning just isn't as effective no matter how hard you try). This is even worse in universities when taking 2-3 months off of an academic year could result in around 10% of a whole degree being nullified. The lasting impacts on many industries of these statistics I imagine will eventually become apparent. If this goes on for any longer, young people are no longer going to have the necessary skills and knowledge to apply for any FE or HE course. If this happens, the detrimental impact on society will be unimaginable.

For many university students, the impact on mental wellbeing and attainment will be significant. Many universities have implemented 'no detriment' policies to try and prevent their students being marked unfairly harshly when they've not received the same quality of education online, which has essentially made degrees easier to pass and meant that many graduates may not be as qualified or as skilled as needed to be successful in today's (now half dead) graduate job market.

For young primary children, I can only imagine the psychological damage this is doing. The lack of social contact, and with it the opportunity to develop social skills is surely depriving our children the chance to learn how to form and maintain meaningful friendships and relationships with others. Are we really going to teach our young children that this is the type of society where we need to stay 2m apart from everyone, constantly live in a state of anxiety, and deprive them of any facial expressions through excessive mask wearing without strong science behind it?

For secondary pupils who are due to sit exams, this has arguably had an impact on their whole life, as with teachers now choosing grades, secondary students may no longer be able to follow their desired career path simply due to the fact that they didn't perform well during the year (as a recent pupil and student teacher, I know many students don't perform amazingly over the year but then work hard for the exam). I think this is wholly unacceptable and that we are arguably destroying the future dreams and aspirations of many high school students and leavers.

Whilst it may not be a massive concern quite yet, mental wellbeing of the younger generation must be considered much more than it is at present. My university for instance today announced that they'll be moving online for academic year 2020/21, and for many of us who were holding onto this as something to motivate us through this situation, this was a massive blow to our mental wellbeing. If we persist in this ridiculously cautious method to easing restrictions, I imagine the motivation of many young people to complete coursework and pursue 'online' learning will diminish rapidly, and I hate to say it but I imagine a rise in suicide will be inevitable.

On a wider note, the economic damage that this is causing will have massive implications on the younger generation. The graduate job market is going to be absolutely dire for arguably many years to come due to the increasing damage we are doing everyday we insist on lockdown and social distancing.

So my question is simply, is all of this damage we are doing to the young generation REALLY necessary to not overwhelm the NHS, and if not then why are the government which I elected now choosing to sacrifice the prospects and mental wellbeing of millions of people in this generation on a 'just in case' basis or to prove a political point?

Tough, it is what it is, suck it up like the rest of us have to.

I consider it a small price to pay when human lives are at risk.
 

BJames

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Yes. Completely. The argument that always seems to surface is that "even if younger people are at less risk, there are still vulnerable adults around them". Everything needs to be taken into account and risk assessed properly.

My University today thankfully had the common sense and logic to say that we would be holding seminars and small group teaching in the unused larger lecture theatres in September if restrictions are still in place. This will also open up the possibility for smaller lectures (e.g. some third year lectures that have small numbers) to use the largest lecture theatres and be distanced. Absolutely great news and a positive step forward.
 

nedchester

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Quite a high proportion of today's pensioners have final salary/gold plated public sector pensions, so won't be affected by market conditions.
What is a “gold plated” public sector pension? Or is it something your read in the Daily Mail.

And I agree that pension provision is very poor for future generations but that I think you’ll find most public sector pensions aren’t as good as you might think.
 

BJames

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Tough, it is what it is, suck it up like the rest of us have to.

I consider it a small price to pay when human lives are at risk.
This is a very close minded perspective and especially when the younger generation are at the least risk. It's been stated on here multiple times how the risk is really miniscule for the youngest in society - when is it time to balance the economy and public health? It's obvious we can't continue like this.

Edit: What about the health risks mentioned in the OP? Such as increased severe mental health problems as well as the other vastly documented health problems going undetected, and likely to cause a huge rise in deaths that have no association to COVID-19, other than the lockdown.
 

Butts

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With regard to University Students just think of it as a gap year, indeed for those due to start this Autumn that might be the most sensible option.
 

hexagon789

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This is a very close minded perspective and especially when the younger generation are at the least risk. It's been stated on here multiple times how the risk is really miniscule for the youngest in society - when is it time to balance the economy and public health? It's obvious we can't continue like this.

Edit: What about the health risks mentioned in the OP? Such as increased severe mental health problems as well as the other vastly documented health problems going undetected, and likely to cause a huge rise in deaths that have no association to COVID-19, other than the lockdown.

Is it? I'm sick and tired of people of my generation thinking they are hard done by. We haven't lived during two world wars, rationing, people being bombed out of their homes, losing family on the front line, a cold war or mass genocide. I think people should count their blessings and appreciate how lucky they are.
 

BJames

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Is it? I'm sick and tired of people of my generation thinking they are hard done by. We haven't lived during two world wars, rationing, people being bombed out of their homes, losing family on the front line, a cold war or mass genocide. I think people should count their blessings and appreciate how lucky they are.
I'm quite tired of hearing the comparisons to be honest. It's a completely different situation to the wars and it shouldn't be treated as the same. We need the younger generation to support the rebuilding of society and the economy following this and at the moment, it has not been managed properly. I'm not saying get everyone back to full and standing trains and let's get 2500 people back into a nightclub tomorrow night, but the way that education is being neglected throughout this is quite shocking. As said by the Head of OFSTED. If anyone, she should know.

I note you ignored my point about the wider health risks.
 

Richard Scott

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I thought it was the teachers and their unions who don't want schools to restart?
Unions definitely causing issues but then they would. Not sure how much of the argument is based on scientific fact. I'm more than happy to go back as are a number of people. If some staff have to self isolate then that's understandable and they should be able to do so but not prevent the rest of us trying to help the youngsters get their education.
 

Richard Scott

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Is it? I'm sick and tired of people of my generation thinking they are hard done by. We haven't lived during two world wars, rationing, people being bombed out of their homes, losing family on the front line, a cold war or mass genocide. I think people should count their blessings and appreciate how lucky they are.
That's exceptionally unfair. Most people aren't saying that and, let's be honest, who living today has been through two world wars. Very few can remember one. Tell the teenager who's got cancer and having no treatment that they're lucky to be stuck at home to possibly save a few lives. I've worked with a teenager with cancer and it wasn't pleasant. Luckily he lived, had it been now would he have been so lucky?
 

nedchester

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With regard to University Students just think of it as a gap year, indeed for those due to start this Autumn that might be the most sensible option.

And then places for the following year will be more competitive
 

yorkie

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To answer the question: Yes we are.

I thought it was the teachers and their unions who don't want schools to restart?
Teachers I know are desperate to work; I know of secondary schools that have several dozen volunteers who have put their names down to be in school but are simply not required. This was covered in the following threads (especially the latter):

...I know Teaching Assistants who are desperate to work but have nothing to do. They volunteered to work in school (it's entirely optional), and this gives them about half a days work every couple of weeks. They could do so much more, they want to do so much more, but are unable to.....

Just today a 11/12 year old boy was telling me his friend has been kept at home for 3 months (they do have a garden but it's tiny) and has no idea when he will be allowed out to see his friends. The boy isn't happy but is doing as he is told. I know him; he is a lovely lad. It's heartbreaking :(
Can anyone here seriously imagine being kept inside for that length of time at that age?
 

Ianno87

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Can anyone here seriously imagine being kept inside for that length of time at that age?

Indeed, at that age all anybody wants to do is go out, meet friends, have fun, be independent. It's part of growing up.
 

nedchester

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Indeed, at that age all anybody wants to do is go out, meet friends, have fun, be independent. It's part of growing up.
I have recently started allowing my two to go and out and see their friends. We tell them to social distance but it’s up to them.
 

Scrotnig

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As a society, we have decided we are not interested in any kind of health issue, unless it's the virus.

Cancer? Go home and die.
Mental health? Pull yourself together and deal with it.
Heart attack? Bad luck
Stroke? Read this guide but you're on your own
Need a lump checking out? Hahaha you must be joking
Consultation with your GP? Don't be so ridiculous, don't you realise people are dying, you're so selfish!

It is an appalling state of affairs and my great fear is, I can't see an end to it. If anything it's getting worse!
 
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Mag_seven

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BBC article on the financial impact on the young of the lockdown:


Young people have been hardest hit by a fall in their income during lockdown as more of their money goes on essentials, official data suggests.

The youngest and oldest workers are most likely to have lost their jobs or seen income cut owing to the system of state-paid wages.

With little in savings and less chance to cut spending, the under-30s would be hit hardest by this, the Office for National Statistics (ONS) said.

I hope the "lockdown till we have a vaccine" brigade take a good long look at this article.
 

Enthusiast

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There was a great hoo-ha over the effect that Brexit was going to have on the young: "Stealing our future"; "Ruining our lives"; "Old gits voted to leave but won't be around to see the consequences" etc. etc. Well Brexit will be as nothing compared to the unnecessary damage that has been done (and looks like continuing to be done for some time) to the youngsters by the way the virus problem has been handled. Their education is trashed - for some irreparably if they are at a critical point; their mental health is in jeopardy; they will be paying for the destruction of the economy for most if not all of their lives.

Why is nobody jumping up and down about this? The cure is now certainly worse than the disease and those wanting to continue to be locked down can do so. Nobody is stopping them from remaining banged up. But they should not receive any further support from the taxpayer. We need to move on.
 

adrock1976

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To answer the question in the opening post, Yes.

An example of how the younger generation have been shafted is that since 6 April 2010, those who have their 16th, 17th, and 18th birthdays are not automatically awarded National Insurance credits for those tax years anymore, and there has been an increase in retirement age from 65 to 67 (with some noises by the Government to increase it to 68 in the near future.

That does not take into account of life expectancy varying across different parts of the UK, for example, the World Health Organisation report into life expectancy in the UK back in 2008/9 had the Calton area of Glasgow having the lowest life expectancy where it is not expected to live beyond the age of 56. Somebody who may be residing in the Calton may be in paid employment, being charged National Insurance contributions towards the State Pension, but would never actually see a penny of their State Pension as they would not live long enough to be in receipt of it.

Regarding education, I am in favour of some classroom based learning as it would be good for students mental health and wellbeing, plus they would be meeting up with their friends too.
 
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