Are you entitled to keeping your ticket when exiting barriered stations?

[D365]

I guess the title is self-explanatory My employer has recently started strongly encouraging us to keep receipts and the actual tickets when processing expenses claims.

If I’m claiming a ticket, keeping them (and scanning after use) is mandatory.

 

[DelayRepay]

If you must use a paper ticket, take a photograph of the ticket before you travel as usually a photo will suffice for expense claims.

This is what I do if I travel with paper tickets. Although I've never had a problem claiming based on the receipt, even if the receipt just says 'rail tickets'. They can validate whether the amount claimed is in line with the fare.

I once got told off for paying an extra 50p for a flexible ticket compared to two advances. I thought the flexibility was worth 50p but apparently not!

 

[Birmingham]

I once got told off for paying an extra 50p for a flexible ticket compared to two advances. I thought the flexibility was worth 50p but apparently not!

Next time, buy the two advances and end up having to buy a new flexible single for your return due to business circumstances.

 

[sor]

my employer is normally quite antiquated but one area of innovation is that they've had their trainline corporate portal linked up to the expense system for years. It's paid for centrally and the expense system is aware of it, so the "claim" is then just to show that it was bought in line with policy. TfL has never been a problem, they're happy with the PDF statement

my main reason for keeping the ticket is however different - I typically buy plusbus when I get there & I need to show it to the ticket counter to get it. No one's ever challenged it (at best they put a tear in it so really show its used) but I'd have to protest if anyone ever did. Or get them to sell me a plusbus at the gateline...

 

[GoneSouth]

I once got told off for paying an extra 50p for a flexible ticket compared to two advances. I thought the flexibility was worth 50p but apparently not!

That’s excellent! I manage my household budgets to those high standards

I just wish my family were as aware of every penny they spend.

What will they say next time when you get the advanced tickets and miss the return leg because of a work meeting, then have to buy a full price single to get home. Some people are just so short sighted.

 

[Bletchleyite]

What will they say next time when you get the advanced tickets and miss the return leg because of a work meeting, then have to buy a full price single to get home. Some people are just so short sighted.

Depending on exactly how often that happens and how much a walk-up single costs it might actually be entirely worth going with the Advances. 50p is a slightly extreme case, though.

In my experience these overrunning work meetings are about as common as the theoretical 9am ones - i.e. not very common at all. When people have travelled a long way there generally is respect that they aren't able to give another hour (not least because some will have flown, and literally nobody buys flexible flight tickets now as they're so expensive), and the meeting can on occasions be continued online during the journey if needs be.

I have the distinct impression that most people who talk on here about business travel have (a) either never experienced it at all, or (b) experienced it in say the 1980s or early 1990s when employment culture was very, very different, and walk-up fares were much more reasonably priced.

 

[py_megapixel]

What will they say next time when you get the advanced tickets and miss the return leg because of a work meeting, then have to buy a full price single to get home. Some people are just so short sighted.

I'm sure wanting a fixed time in one direction and flexibility in the other is actually quite a common situation. It's annoying and slightly surprising that the ticketing system does not cater for this. (It's yet another thing that would be solved in a very simple manner with single-leg fares).

 

[BenS123]

SWR has "Semi Flex Return" tickets where you travel outwards on the booked train, but acts like an open ticket on the way back. There's a thread about it here https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/new-swr-semi-flex-return-fares.198269/. I use them regularly and do feel like they should be available on more TOCs.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm sure wanting a fixed time in one direction and flexibility in the other is actually quite a common situation.

I'd probably say "almost universal".

It's annoying and slightly surprising that the ticketing system does not cater for this. (It's yet another thing that would be solved in a very simple manner with single-leg fares).

It sort of does, as Avanti's singles are 60-70% of returns, but yes, single leg pricing is one of the things that properly allows for it without complicating things.

SWR has "Semi Flex Return" tickets where you travel outwards on the booked train, but acts like an open ticket on the way back. There's a thread about it here https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/new-swr-semi-flex-return-fares.198269/. I use them regularly and do feel like they should be available on more TOCs.

I'd rather see single-fare pricing than any more complexity being added.

 

[ScotsRail]

In the olden days collected tickets were sent back to railway HQ for accounting purposes. Read the Dorothy Sayers mystery "Five Red Herrings", set in the 1930s where a false alibi relies on the suspect's ticket being made available to the police by the staff at Glasgow St Enoch.

Spoilers!

 

[Dryce]

I’ve never been prevented from keeping a ticket whenever I’ve asked.

The subject of tickets and expenses regularly crops up on here. What I genuinely don’t understand is why people dealing with expenses tend to require a higher level of proof when it comes to rail travel compared to other forms of transport, and indeed other types of expenses.

I've not had an issue when going through the gateline to ask to be let through to keep my ticket. I've always been let through with my ticket.

It's not a big deal. If there was hassle I'd just photograph the ticket.

I prefer E-tickets but they're not always available.

 

[mmh]

I've not been to a country which does that, as far as I can recall.

When I visited the US

You have then, as in California the BART ticket gates used to print on tickets as they passed through, although they no longer have any paper tickets. They were quite elaborate, they printed a running total of the balance left on the ticket. A paper-based version of Oyster PAYG!

 

[PeterC]

SWR has "Semi Flex Return" tickets where you travel outwards on the booked train, but acts like an open ticket on the way back. There's a thread about it here https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/new-swr-semi-flex-return-fares.198269/. I use them regularly and do feel like they should be available on more TOCs.

I wondered what semi-flex was supposed to mean. I was quoted such a fare by SWR earlier this year but it made no sense as the site required a return train to be booked.

When I visited the US, on some journeys tickets were taken from us, even when on the train (where no exit barriers were present).

This wasn't unusual in inter city services into London in British Rail days

 

[plugwash]

magstripe readers will be gone within 5-10 years, probably tending towards 5.

I'll belive it when I see it, afaict first the CCST-only tickets need to become available on some other medium, then only after that is done can the TVMs (and perhaps small ticket offices, though they could potentially have multiple printers like large ticket offices do today) switch away from CCST, then a period needs to be waitied for the majority of still-valid CCSTs to reach the end of their validity (some tickets are valid for a year).

I think doing all that in only 5 years would be a stretch.

 

[norbitonflyer]

I once got told off for paying an extra 50p for a flexible ticket compared to two advances. I thought the flexibility was worth 50p but apparently not!

I had to very carefully explain to our expnses team why an open return ticket London to Newcastle was better value than three separate singles London-Newcastle - Leeds - London: the concepts of "any permitted route" and "break of journey" both being alien to them.

And incidentally a I have yet to find a journey planner (NR, Trainline, whatever) that recognises that you might want to use different via points in each direction - if you specify "London to Newcastle return" you can only add Leeds as a via point in both directions, not one direction only.

 

[plugwash]

IIRC trainsplit/trainscanbecheaper allows specifying different via points for the two directions.

 

[DelayRepay]

I had to very carefully explain to our expnses team why an open return ticket London to Newcastle was better value than three separate singles London-Newcastle - Leeds - London: the concepts of "any permitted route" and "break of journey" both being alien to them.

I once got challenged as to why I'd bought a peak instead of off-peak ticket. Erm.. because the meeting started at 9:30am and I did not want to be prosecuted for fare evasion?

 

[yorkie]

You have then, as in California the BART ticket gates used to print on tickets as they passed through, although they no longer have any paper tickets. They were quite elaborate, they printed a running total of the balance left on the ticket. A paper-based version of Oyster PAYG!

Well it's not a nationwide or widespread thing there; I didn't take the BART but travelled on local operators in various cities and didn't experience this.

It sounds it is actually an antiquated niche situation, not at all how the original post portrayed it, so my point still stands!

I had to very carefully explain to our expnses team why an open return ticket London to Newcastle was better value than three separate singles London-Newcastle - Leeds - London: the concepts of "any permitted route" and "break of journey" both being alien to them.

And incidentally a I have yet to find a journey planner (NR, Trainline, whatever) that recognises that you might want to use different via points in each direction - if you specify "London to Newcastle return" you can only add Leeds as a via point in both directions, not one direction only.

As @plugwash says, one provider does this:

IIRC trainsplit/trainscanbecheaper allows specifying different via points for the two directions.

and to do this, on the new.trainsplit.com site, go to advanced options then deselect "use these options for return":


By the way there isn't any point using Trainscanbecheaper; it's the same as the old Trainsplit.com but with splits turned off. The new Trainsplit site simply allows splits to be turned on and off.

I once got challenged as to why I'd bought a peak instead of off-peak ticket. Erm.. because the meeting started at 9:30am and I did not want to be prosecuted for fare evasion?

Off Peak varies by route, e.g. York to Macclesfield is valid from 0715, but if you go to Stoke you can't depart until 0900.

You should not be prosecuted for using a time restricted ticket at a peak time unless there was evidence you did so deliberately to avoid paying the correct fare; the standard course of action would be to charge an excess fare.

I'd rather see single-fare pricing than any more complexity being added.

Some TOCs had such fares prior to "simplification" (circa 2007/8) however they abolished them to fit in the new structure.

TOCs no longer feel bounded by "simplification" so do all sorts of stuff against the principles of it now; I guess that could justify a new "re-simplification" which would be an excuse to put fares up. But let's not go there... !

 

[Cloud Strife]

and literally nobody buys flexible flight tickets now as they're so expensive

I actually get them on occasion! They aren't so expensive on domestic Polish flights with LOT, so if I'm going to Warsaw, I'll normally book a flexible fare on return because there are departures roughly every 3 hours. The company doesn't mind, because a flexible ticket is usually cheaper than driving there.

 

[Broucek]

With the big switch to work at home, many employers (mine included) do all expenses via a photo of the receipt.

 

[Runningaround]

I wonder how many delay repay claims will be rejected by not being able to present the ticket?
I had to use a ticket office due to paying by RTV's, and didn't get a receipt.
If you are delayed as I was a fortnight ago, my priority was getting out to the bus asap, so I forgot to ask the gate to let me through so I could keep it and their wasn't time to anyhow due to the massive queue.
So they've saved the time and refund of my 30+ minute delay and probably many more by keeping the evidence required to claim.

 

[Taunton]

It's not unusual at all - I've been involved in a number of cases where people have bought tickets and got a receipt, claimed back on expenses from the receipt and then refunded the ticket and kept the money. Having the actual ticket is one way to help make this more difficult.

Indeed. When on business in Australia, flying internally with plane tickets being provided by the client, I was surprised to be asked afterwards by their accountant for the boarding cards, which only by chance I had kept. They were in turn surprised that I didn't know this. Not clear if it was a company or an Australian tax office procedure, but was apparently to stop people being given plane tickets by the company, not going, and cashing the unused tickets in for a cash refund, which you could still do over there.

 

[miklcct]

I have never understood why they don't do as every other country, rather than eat the ticket, the gate just endorses it with some print so it can't be easily reused again, and returned to you for you to do as you so please. And so it leaves it for the passenger to do what they like, expense it for work, stick it in their scrapbook/diary etc.

Eating single journey tickets is the common practice on everywhere else I have been to, including Hong Kong and Shenzhen, where the ticket itself doesn't contain printing and is just a token encoded with the fare paid. It can be reissued after it has been eaten.

 

[miklcct]

I was surprised to be asked afterwards by their accountant for the boarding cards, which only by chance I had kept.

In the case of e-boarding cards, do you send a photo of it?

 

[XAM2175]

Indeed. When on business in Australia, flying internally with plane tickets being provided by the client, I was surprised to be asked afterwards by their accountant for the boarding cards, which only by chance I had kept. They were in turn surprised that I didn't know this. Not clear if it was a company or an Australian tax office procedure, but was apparently to stop people being given plane tickets by the company, not going, and cashing the unused tickets in for a cash refund, which you could still do over there.

In the last decade-plus though that would only have been possible with flexible fares, which in turn would be no great difference to how BA would have done it here. Sounds like a company thing, especially since it's got to be coming up on eight or nine years now since Qantas started offering mobile boarding passes, and Virgin Australia had been using plain receipt paper for at least five years before that. In fact, I think refund-to-cash mostly died with the conversion from paper flight coupons to e-tickets.

I think though there was a general policy for a lot of companies that air tickets be booked only through a corporate travel provider, or on company-provided credit cards, so that if they were refunded for whatever reason the value came back to an account the company controlled - which strikes me as providing better accountability than collecting boarding pass stubs.

 

[plugwash]

Off Peak varies by route, e.g. York to Macclesfield is valid from 0715, but if you go to Stoke you can't depart until 0900.

Seems very strange given that both are set by TPE.

 

[najaB]

Are you entitled to keeping your ticket when exiting barriered stations?

Are you entitled to keep the ticket? No. Tickets remain the property of the railway.
Will you encounter difficulty keeping the ticket if you ask? Rarely.

 

[Ediswan]

Are you entitled to keep the ticket? No. Tickets remain the property of the railway.

Where is that written ? It is not in the NRCoT.

 

[Kilopylae]

magstripe readers will be gone within 5-10 years, probably tending towards 5.

Unless you have a source, I doubt this.

 

[Wallsendmag]

The obvious answer for those wanting to keep their tickets is to buy an eTicket

Unless you have a source, I doubt this.

I'll be a source for that, and much quicker than that I would expect