Arriva Buses (including Greenline)

[317 forever]

Arriva only has the 86 service that is wholly within the City boundary but it's expected the electrics will primarily be allocated to a route (or two) with a high proportion of 'City' mileage.

The DB250/Wrights will have a while to go yet, they are expected to go when the Electric buses arrive, so probably a year or so yet, although a few have been withdrawn recently due to mechanical issues.

Some examples may therefore be routes 6/6a, 50/51, 53/56 and 58/58a.

 

[Andy Pacer]

Some examples may therefore be routes 6/6a, 50/51, 53/56 and 58/58a.

I believe they're deckers so probably not most of those suggested. Probably a case of wait and see what happens when the time comes.

Some services will transfer to Blyth where a new depot on Union Street, with an authorisation of 25, is located. I am told this is on the opposite side of the Mecca Bingo from the bus station. The postcode shown on the licence is incorrect.

Does this mean there are now two sites in Blyth?

 

[RELL6L]

Arriva Northumbria has made arrangements for approximately 35 vehicles to be outstationed permanently at Stagecoach in Newcastle's Walkergate depot. Services 47, 553, 555, and Arriva's share of 685 will be operated from there along with various journeys on 51, 52, 53, 54, 306, 308 and a couple of school services. The peak vehicle requirement is 28. I do not know how long this arrangement is for. Walkergate has not appeared in Notices & Proceedings yet, but it is on the "O" Licence with an authorisation of 38.
https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/view-details/licence/155397
Some services will transfer to Blyth where a new depot on Union Street, with an authorisation of 25, is located. I am told this is on the opposite side of the Mecca Bingo from the bus station. The postcode shown on the licence is incorrect.

Seems much more sensible than the previous plans, the other depots are a long way our for the local Newcastle services. I imagine the 43/44/45 from Blyth will be a fair challenge. Ironic to run the 685 joint service with Stagecoach from…. a Stagecoach depot!

 

[Andy Pacer]

Seems much more sensible than the previous plans, the other depots are a long way our for the local Newcastle services. I imagine the 43/44/45 from Blyth will be a fair challenge. Ironic to run the 685 joint service with Stagecoach from…. a Stagecoach depot!

Possibly crew changes at Cramlington/Morpeth?

 

[Robertj21a]

I wonder therefore whether it is just routes entirely within the Flexi zone, or even entirely within the Leicester City Council area, that will gain electric buses?

Routes like the 29, 49 and 127 to name but 3 would seem unlikely to be due electric buses any time soon.

Mind you, if the double deck Pulsars that have gained e-leather seating are about to be withdrawn upon replacement by E400-MMCs I may kick myself for not riding one yesterday.


Thank you for letting us know the planned timing for these buses.

What's a double deck Pulsar ?

 

[RELL6L]

Possibly crew changes at Cramlington/Morpeth?

Cramlington I would think, all 43s go there and they swap every journey at Newcastle between 43 and 44/45, also nearer Blyth. It’s the logistics and driver shortages that will be the problem.

Looks like the 306/308 might swap each journey at Newcastle as well, be interesting to see the implications of this. More deckers on 306, more singles on 308?

 

[GusB]

What's a double deck Pulsar ?

A Wright Pulsar Gemini - the name given to the double deck bodies built on VDL running gear. Eclipses were built on Volvo chassis and Solars on Scania.

 

[SSmith2009]

Arriva only has the 86 service that is wholly within the City boundary but it's expected the electrics will primarily be allocated to a route (or two) with a high proportion of 'City' mileage.

The DB250/Wrights will have a while to go yet, they are expected to go when the Electric buses arrive, so probably a year or so yet, although a few have been withdrawn recently due to mechanical issues.

Understand from the leicesterbuses.co.uk website the arriva routes using electric buses will be the 47/48 and 50/51 services

The Arriva electrics aren't expected in Leicester for some time, so these Volvo B9s will hang on for a while yet, and may still survive beyond the electric introduction.
There are some diesel E400MMCs due for Arriva's Leicester depot in the coming weeks.

I heard it's around 28(?) E400MMC's and 8 E200MMC's for the Midlands area

 

[RogerOut]

Anone know if there are big changes to Arriva timetables in Kent? Maidstone, Tunbridge Wells for example?

 

[duncombec]

Anone know if there are big changes to Arriva timetables in Kent? Maidstone, Tunbridge Wells for example?

Times changed in the Medway Towns today. There have been similar timetable changes in Maidstone and Northfleet in recent weeks - details should still be on the Arriva website.

Edit: They are - follow the relevant links from the filtered page here: https://www.arrivabus.co.uk/latest-news/location/kent-and-surrey?page=1

 

[Andy Pacer]

Understand from the leicesterbuses.co.uk website the arriva routes using electric buses will be the 47/48 and 50/51 services


I heard it's around 28(?) E400MMC's and 8 E200MMC's for the Midlands area

47/48 and 50/51 was also my understanding, I hadn't realised it had been made public knowledge.

And yes, 28 E400MMC and 8 E200MMC for Leicester depot shortly.

 

[ScotGG]

Arriva truly are rubbish.

All links to timetables from their news page covering service cuts are dead.

 

[RELL6L]

I am trying to get a feel from BusTimes as to how things are going for Arriva in the Northumbria with the closure of Jesmond.
Usual caveats apply about BusTimes - I think it is usually pretty good but of course things can be missing.

The 685 seems to have run reasonably well, although the last round trip to Carlisle didn't run yesterday.

The 306 and 308 are completely mixed single and double deckers. I don't know how much is run from Walkergate but I'd say the majority is run from Blyth. They do Blyth - 308 - Newcastle - 306 - Whitley Bay or Tynemouth - 306 - Newcastle - 308 - Blyth. But some are from the Newcastle end and seem to do blocks of a 306 and a 308 round trip interworked with other routes, for example 1587 yesterday worked on 52-54 until 12.00 then set off at 12.10 on the 306. So Streetlites on the 306/308 as well as Pulsars. At the Blyth end they can do a pair of round trips as above then go onto the X routes or vice versa.

On the face of it the 43 and 44/45 are fully interworked, all from Blyth, swapping every trip at Newcastle, tending not to go to or from Blyth except at the start and end of service so presumably vans or cars are used to swap drivers. The evidence here would suggest the service yesterday was awful. Looking at afternoon departures from Newcastle:
14.30 to Morpeth, ran as far as Cramlington
14.50 to Cramlington, ran
15.10 to Cramlington, ran
15.30 to Morpeth, started at Cramlington 14 late
15.50 to Cramlington, ran 8 late
16.10 to Cramlington, cancelled
16.30 to Morpeth, cancelled
16.50 to Cramlington, cancelled, the incoming 44 was 20 late and ran empty to Cramlington to pick up service (maybe with driver change) - bit bizarre
17.15 to Cramlington, ran 13 late
17.35 to Morpeth, cancelled
18.05 to Cramlington, ran 11 late
18.35 to Cramlington, ran
19.05 to Cramlington, cancelled
20.05 to Cramlington, cancelled
21.05 and 22.05 to Cramlington ran

So the last through bus to Morpeth ran at 13.30! No departures at all from Newcastle between 15.58 and 17.28 or between 18.35 and 21.05!

The 51-54 run on complex sequence of interworkings on what appears to be a 12 hour complete cycle thus requiring 12 vehicles. From Newcastle it goes 51>51> Newcastle >52>53> Palmersville >53>52> Newcastle > 54>54> Newcastle > 52>53> North Shields >53>52> Newcastle. Even though one 52 goes to and from Ashington early and late this appears to be a Newcastle based vehicle, or possibly Blyth, but not Ashington - strange?

In the evening the 43 interworks with the 52 and 53 at the Cramlington end in another complicated way so maybe the evening service on the 43/44/45 is worked by Walkergate.
More double deckers on the 51-54 - a good use of resources?

This is all from afar - any news from the front line?

 

[Geordie driver]

This is our new normal. I live on the 43 route, it's our only bus bar a subsidized bus once an hour that doesn't go to town. There is a meeting locally on Monday, I pity the poor Arriva representative. Company still trotting out the lazy, untrue trope about driver shortages, no mention that in the same company and in the same area other depots are managing fine. It's the mishandling of the Jesmond closure that is responsible for this, nothing else. The 43 is 3 an hour during the day and one an hour in the evening..

(Image shows an information poster listing services that aren't running due to "operational issues")

 

[Titfield]

IMHO the Traffic Commissioner needs to call a Public Inquiry to examine Arriva's actions to determine the causes of what appears to be a wholesale failure to provide the advertised service to the travelling public who rely on such services.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

This is our new normal. I live on the 43 route, it's our only bus bar a subsidized bus once an hour that doesn't go to town. There is a meeting locally on Monday, I pity the poor Arriva representative. Company still trotting out the lazy, untrue trope about driver shortages, no mention that in the same company and in the same area other depots are managing fine. It's the mishandling of the Jesmond closure that is responsible for this, nothing else. The 43 is 3 an hour during the day and one an hour in the evening..

(Image shows an information poster listing services that aren't running due to "operational issues")

View attachment 123160

It is desperately sad, especially when I remember the days of the new Northumbria. Ok, it was going to be different from United and deregulation would bring challenges, and the management team would cash in on some of the property.

However, when you see the pig's ear that Arriva has made with the North East business in 20 or so years... And they've been here before with the closure of Alnwick and Bishop depots. What odds that we will see other routes getting axed as complex interworking and chronic unreliability kicks in? The 685 to Stagecoach, and the 47, 553, 555 also going?

 

[7484]

Company still trotting out the lazy, untrue trope about driver shortages, no mention that in the same company and in the same area other depots are managing fine. It's the mishandling of the Jesmond closure that is responsible for this, nothing else. The 43 is 3 an hour during the day and one an hour in the evening..

It is, ultimately, down to a severe driver shortage so the reason given is the truth. I'm unsure which depot you believe is managing fine?

I am trying to get a feel from BusTimes as to how things are going for Arriva in the Northumbria with the closure of Jesmond.


The 685 seems to have run reasonably well, although the last round trip to Carlisle didn't run yesterday.

The 306 and 308 are completely mixed single and double deckers. I don't know how much is run from Walkergate but I'd say the majority is run from Blyth. They do Blyth - 308 - Newcastle - 306 - Whitley Bay or Tynemouth - 306 - Newcastle - 308 - Blyth. But some are from the Newcastle end and seem to do blocks of a 306 and a 308 round trip interworked with other routes, for example 1587 yesterday worked on 52-54 until 12.00 then set off at 12.10 on the 306. So Streetlites on the 306/308 as well as Pulsars. At the Blyth end they can do a pair of round trips as above then go onto the X routes or vice versa.


The 51-54 run on complex sequence of interworkings on what appears to be a 12 hour complete cycle thus requiring 12 vehicles. From Newcastle it goes 51>51> Newcastle >52>53> Palmersville >53>52> Newcastle > 54>54> Newcastle > 52>53> North Shields >53>52> Newcastle. Even though one 52 goes to and from Ashington early and late this appears to be a Newcastle based vehicle, or possibly Blyth, but not Ashington - strange?

In the evening the 43 interworks with the 52 and 53 at the Cramlington end in another complicated way so maybe the evening service on the 43/44/45 is worked by Walkergate.
More double deckers on the 51-54 - a good use of resources?

This is all from afar - any news from the front line?

As far as I know the work that transferred to Blyth this time was the 43/44/45 along with 4 52 boards. The 306/308 is still operated jointly, generally following the pattern you've detailed, with 8 boards each.

The 43/44/45 cycle seems to be the main issue, realistically there are quite a few potential reasons behind it. It could be due to a lack of route knowledge with the original Blyth drivers, so they're unable to step in and cover Jesmond work, and the duty allocator only has a smallish pool of ex-Jesmond drivers to work with. It's also potentially linked to the actual shifts, you can do far more 43/44/45 trips in a stint than you can an X7/8/9/10/11 - so one 43/4/5 duty missing impacts quite a few trips. Obviously both of these potential reasons are things that could and should have been planned for, either by planning in some route learning (though services would have been missed to accommodate this too I imagine!) or sending different work to Blyth (sending all 308 boards and leaving the 43/44/45 at Walkergate).

The early/late 52 runs from Ashington aren't run from there due to no route knowledge. The AM appears to be a Blyth vehicle, and the PM from Walkergate.

While ultimately the issues we're seeing is due to the driver shortage, there are things that could possibly be done to spread the pain rather than concentrating it all on the 43/44/45 customers.

 

[Geordie driver]

It is, ultimately, down to a severe driver shortage so the reason given is the truth. I'm unsure which depot you believe is managing fine?



As far as I know the work that transferred to Blyth this time was the 43/44/45 along with 4 52 boards. The 306/308 is still operated jointly, generally following the pattern you've detailed, with 8 boards each.

The 43/44/45 cycle seems to be the main issue, realistically there are quite a few potential reasons behind it. It could be due to a lack of route knowledge with the original Blyth drivers, so they're unable to step in and cover Jesmond work, and the duty allocator only has a smallish pool of ex-Jesmond drivers to work with. It's also potentially linked to the actual shifts, you can do far more 43/44/45 trips in a stint than you can an X7/8/9/10/11 - so one 43/4/5 duty missing impacts quite a few trips. Obviously both of these potential reasons are things that could and should have been planned for, either by planning in some route learning (though services would have been missed to accommodate this too I imagine!) or sending different work to Blyth (sending all 308 boards and leaving the 43/44/45 at Walkergate).

The early/late 52 runs from Ashington aren't run from there due to no route knowledge. The AM appears to be a Blyth vehicle, and the PM from Walkergate.

While ultimately the issues we're seeing is due to the driver shortage, there are things that could possibly be done to spread the pain rather than concentrating it all on the 43/44/45 customers.

Ashington and Blyth were managing with way less services cut.

I know loads of people with a PCV licence who could be back driving in a couple of weeks, so no shortage. Including me.

They won't go back because of the awful conditions and pay in the industry. You could recruit 20 drivers a week, but if 21 leave you are in trouble. Even in an industry known for poor pay and conditions, Arriva have stolen the crown ( from Slavecoach) as the worst bus employer to work for.

What a triumph.

Jesmond closure has been talked about for decades, and planned ( although I use the word planned jokingly) for years. They have had months to route learn Ashington and Blyth drivers, but they haven't.

Drivers were told redundancy and relocation payments were on the cards. I did tell those I knew still there that expecting the company to treat it's staff with a bit of dignity and respect would be a big sea change, some of them were very naive.

At the last minute they were told just to move, don't like it then !eave. So many of them have left.

Just checked on bus times and this morning of the 5 buses supposed to be out on the 43, there is one.

These levels of service would get a small local cowboy operator taken off the road. Multi national cowboy operators seem to get away with it.

 

[7484]

Ashington and Blyth were managing with way less services cut.

I know loads of people with a PCV licence who could be back driving in a couple of weeks, so no shortage. Including me.

They won't go back because of the awful conditions and pay in the industry. You could recruit 20 drivers a week, but if 21 leave you are in trouble. Even in an industry known for poor pay and conditions, Arriva have stolen the crown ( from Slavecoach) as the worst bus employer to work for.

Managing is a bit of a stretch, even with fairly substantial amounts of overtime being worked Ashington were, and are, still losing services. Again though, less noticeable as one shift missing there will impact fewer trips than a shift on the 43/44/45 would. Led to believe Blyth were in a similar boat before the arrival of Jesmond work, essentially short on drivers but just about getting through on overtime.

You say there isn't a shortage because you could go back in a couple of weeks, that doesn't really work. It would be like me saying that since I, and many others, could go and help out the retail or hospitality industry there isn't a staff shortage there. If the pay and conditions, as a start, aren't good enough then all of these industries have no chance.

I don't disagree that the closure of Jesmond has been poorly planned out. Realistically, since the sale was agreed years ago, the sensible plan would have been to get Ashington and Blyth (though I'm unsure if Blyth could have been done much earlier with the town centre regeneration?) ready to go for a couple of weeks ago so that they could both immediately take all of the work.

From what I've heard on the grapevine, lots of Jesmond drivers would have been happy to transfer to Ashington, less so to Blyth. Given the issues currently seem to be with the Blyth work, not the Walkergate operations, this gossip seems to have some legs. I had also heard that the relocation package was quite generous, hence Unite cancelling the proposed strike action, did it somehow not materialise in the end?

The overall issue though is the shortage of drivers, which is obviously impacting companies across the country and not just Arriva NE. I absolutely think increasing pay and improving work patterns will help, but only to an extent. The amount of vile abuse all public facing employees receive only seems to be increasing, with the insane levels of toxic behaviour on social media seeping into real life. People can only take so much, almost regardless of pay (if we're realistic and accept bus drivers, retail workers etc are never going to be making £100k/year).

 

[Geordie driver]

The relocation package only became quite good because of the proposed strike.

We aren't going to agree on this, but pay a decent rate, support your staff and don't put up shifts that would turn a robot into a Marxist and you will have no driver shortage.

There is no shortage of qualified drivers.

 

[RELL6L]

It looks even worse today around Newcastle. Again it is complex but it looks like the Saturday schedule has the 51 combined with the 43/44/45 while the 52/53/54 are separate. The latter don’t seem to bad but the 43/44/45/51 are appalling. I don’t think there has been a single through journey from Morpeth to Newcastle at all today, the few that started from Morpeth only made it to Cramlington. The only departures from Newcastle on the hourly 51 have been at 8.15, 11.15 and 13.15. No 45 to Dinnington since 13.40. Arriva should be held to account for this.

 

[philthetube]

I hope everyone posting on this thread is complaining to the traffic commissioners. It's no good whinging about them if reports are not made to them.

 

[David 90825]

I believe they're deckers so probably not most of those suggested. Probably a case of wait and see what happens when the time comes.


Does this mean there are now two sites in Blyth?

The Union Street site in Blyth is an additional location that has been obtained whilst the main Blyth depot at Bridge Street undergoes refurbishment. I understand Union Street will be in use until sometime in March 2023 when the main depot's refurbishment will be completed.

 

[RELL6L]

I hope everyone posting on this thread is complaining to the traffic commissioners. It's no good whinging about them if reports are not made to them.

Fair comment, but I am sitting in an ivory tower miles from Newcastle throwing stones simply based on what BusTimes is telling me. For all I know there are more buses out which are not tracking- a much more minor breach - and the service is running well….

 

[Andy Pacer]

Fair comment, but I am sitting in an ivory tower miles from Newcastle throwing stones simply based on what BusTimes is telling me. For all I know there are more buses out which are not tracking- a much more minor breach - and the service is running well….

Probably important when quoting observations that these are based on Bus Times and not fact if that's the case.

 

[Volvodart]

I think it should always be reported if you are stating bustimes rather than physical observations.

 

[RELL6L]

I think it should always be reported if you are stating bustimes rather than physical observations.

Agreed. I do normally- see post 1123 above - I neglected to do so in yesterday’s post and apologies if anyone thought otherwise.

That said - to Arriva’s credit- I think BusTimes is pretty accurate for their operations, as it is now for all the major operators and many others. Maybe less so for the precise vehicle and a few exceptions - the Weston board on the late lamented First 126 in Somerset was missing for 2 months- but generally good.

 

[Geordie driver]

There was a meeting tonight at a school in our area ( Dinnington) to discuss the bus problems with representatives from Arriva, Nexus and our local councilors.

200 people turned up.

No one from Arriva turned up.

 

[Stan Drews]

There was a meeting tonight at a school in our area ( Dinnington) to discuss the bus problems with representatives from Arriva, Nexus and our local councilors.

200 people turned up.

No one from Arriva turned up.

Perhaps they were planning to come by bus, and it didn’t turn up?

 

[MotCO]

Perhaps they were planning to come by bus, and it didn’t turn up?

I think that they tried to use the Arriva App to find out which bus to catch, but they couldn't make head or tail of it!