Arriva in Kent

[SEClass375]

Does anyone know anything about the Tunbridge Wells depot as it looks like they aren't using it anymore?

Is there any news on any new buses coming our way for TW as we could do with some?

Are they going to reinstate the services that they cut this year for TW?

Any info would be gratefully apreciated.

 

[alex397]

It is being used until the very end of October.

15th October was apparently the last day of full service, but a couple of local routes will remain there until the end of October.

Thats all i've heard.

 

[overthewater]

Arriva kent has to be one of the worse Operations Arriva have, its just feels rundown and the network is on its backside, Yet if you look east to Stagecoach land its far better.

 

[alex397]

Arriva kent has to be one of the worse Operations Arriva have, its just feels rundown and the network is on its backside, Yet if you look east to Stagecoach land its far better.

I think they are generally ok, and they have good drivers too. Buses tend to be in good condition and clean inside (although maybe this is because they carry less passengers!)

I think they have a more difficult operating territory than Stagecoach in East Kent. West Kent seems to have bigger gaps between urban areas, and has quite a few commuter towns, where lots of people work in London all day. East Kent has urban areas closer together (although this doesn't explain Medway).
However, I have found Arriva less reliable, and they are more expensive than Stagecoach. Frequencies in some areas are quite rubbish too, when you compare it to Stagecoach.

Stagecoach have recently extended a route into Arriva territory, partly competing against Arriva's 333, between Faversham and Sittingbourne - will be interesting to see how that works out.

 

[overthewater]

Stagecoach have recently extended a route into Arriva territory, partly competing against Arriva's 333, between Faversham and Sittingbourne - will be interesting to see how that works out.

If stagecoach ends up carrying more passengers then Arriva need to watch out.

 

[ashworth]

However, I have found Arriva less reliable, and they are more expensive than Stagecoach. Frequencies in some areas are quite rubbish too, when you compare it to Stagecoach.

Stagecoach have recently extended a route into Arriva territory, partly competing against Arriva's 333, between Faversham and Sittingbourne - will be interesting to see how that works out.

That's interesting.
About 2 years ago I spent a week staying on the outskirts of Sittingbourne and was surprised, for a fairly built up area, how poor the bus services were especially with almost nothing in or out of the town after 7pm. I notice that the new Stagecoach service also finishes before 7pm.
I ended up using the train more than I did the bus even though it was a good distance to walk to the station. At least the trains ran regularly right through until after midnight. Although it was quite a journey from Maidstone to Sittingbourne one evening when I missed the last Arriva bus, which I believe departs before 6pm, and I had to get the train from Maidstone Barracks changing at Strood.
At that time, the Kent Explorer Ticket was more expensive to buy on Arriva buses in Sittingbourne than it was on Stagecoach in East Kent. Also I could never work out whether it was actually valid on the Chalkwell services towards Chatham. I suppose its all easier now for daily multi operator journeys, albeit even more expensive, with the Discovery Ticket.

 

[SEClass375]

The last bus I can take home from Tunbridge Wells is at 18:20 whereas the last bus to Tonbridge from TW is way later at around 22:00. Its a postcode lottery with arriva here.

 

[Busaholic]

That's interesting.
About 2 years ago I spent a week staying on the outskirts of Sittingbourne and was surprised, for a fairly built up area, how poor the bus services were especially with almost nothing in or out of the town after 7pm. I notice that the new Stagecoach service also finishes before 7pm.
I ended up using the train more than I did the bus even though it was a good distance to walk to the station. At least the trains ran regularly right through until after midnight. Although it was quite a journey from Maidstone to Sittingbourne one evening when I missed the last Arriva bus, which I believe departs before 6pm, and I had to get the train from Maidstone Barracks changing at Strood.
At that time, the Kent Explorer Ticket was more expensive to buy on Arriva buses in Sittingbourne than it was on Stagecoach in East Kent. Also I could never work out whether it was actually valid on the Chalkwell services towards Chatham. I suppose its all easier now for daily multi operator journeys, albeit even more expensive, with the Discovery Ticket.

Thirty odd years since I worked in Maidstone, but had to travel around the county by public transport, including evenings. There were still some evening bus services then, but they were poorly used. The Sittingbourne service (and I'd lived there for a few years) was one where I might be the only passenger, although at least I was a fare-paying one! Sittingbourne people tended to look towards the Medway Towns rather than Maidstone for entertainment, etc, which didn't say much for the County Town!

 

[SEClass375]

One thing I have noticed (especially today) is the amount of buses that are on the road displaying 'Sorry! Not in Service' (also known to me as Arriva's favourite service).

Today I saw 4 of them not in service on the same road heading into Tunbridge Wells

 

[Busaholic]

One thing I have noticed (especially today) is the amount of buses that are on the road displaying 'Sorry! Not in Service' (also known to me as Arriva's favourite service).

Today I saw 4 of them not in service on the same road heading into Tunbridge Wells

Could that have something to do with the closure of Arriva's T. Wells depot and the consequent re-allocations of routes with commensurate ' dead running'?

 

[SEClass375]

It could be however they wern't on the direct road from Tonbridge to TW but on the direct route from Maidstone

 

[Busaholic]

It could be however they wern't on the direct road from Tonbridge to TW but on the direct route from Maidstone

It could be, but only you would know!

 

[SEClass375]

It could be, but only you would know!

Saying that I have found out when and where the new depot in TW is going to open from the local newspaper! (It opens in Spring for those who want to know)

 

[MedwayValiant]

I was pleased to see this thread, because I'd beeen wondering whether I should start a thread about Arriva's Medway operation. Unfortunately, it's become a bit of a shambles in the last few months. The "flagship" 101 to Maidstone is an exception; it's fast and reliable, but most of the rest not so much.

Reliability is poor at the moment; I shall use the route on which I travel most as an example. My route is the 145, which is probably a horrible route to drive on. Most of it is effectively on single track road, loadings are high and include a lot of pushchairs, and there's a loop at one end which currently seems to be regarded as optional. Sometimes there is a handwritten note saying "Not Orion Road", but sometimes they just don't go there. On Saturday afternoon just gone the route was operating a bus short, which meant some very long gaps later in the afternoon and standing passengers at 1800 on a Saturday.

There have been several recent reports of drivers getting out mid-journey to smoke; that hasn't been a regular sight since the 80s. There are currently a lot of vehicles hired in from other parts of Arriva, some of which are not in peak condition.

Medway has the second highest bus fares on the British mainland behind Warrington, but certainly doesn't have the second best bus service. That 145 has been reduced three times in the last 15 months. It was every 7½ minutes, then every 10, then every 12, and then the evening service was curtailed. (And yet the Sunday service was increased from every 30 minutes to every 20. Every 30 was ample.) This is not for want of passengers, so I can only imagine that it is for want of drivers and/or vehicles.

I've no idea whether Arriva is secretly hoping that another operator will offer to take Medway off their hands, but they show few signs of actually wanting it. You now have to go to Maidstone to buy a Medway annual ticket, because Arriva no longer operates the enquiry office at Chatham Bus Station. There is no stored value card (Kent CC has started one, but neither Arriva nor Stagecoach accepts it, and Arriva simply doesn't have one of its own), and there is no all-operators day ticket other than the south-east wide Discovery (£8.50, as against £4.80 for the all-operators ticket in Luton and Dunstable, which is an area of comparable size and also has Arriva as the main operator).

 

[Antman]

I was pleased to see this thread, because I'd beeen wondering whether I should start a thread about Arriva's Medway operation. Unfortunately, it's become a bit of a shambles in the last few months. The "flagship" 101 to Maidstone is an exception; it's fast and reliable, but most of the rest not so much.

Reliability is poor at the moment; I shall use the route on which I travel most as an example. My route is the 145, which is probably a horrible route to drive on. Most of it is effectively on single track road, loadings are high and include a lot of pushchairs, and there's a loop at one end which currently seems to be regarded as optional. Sometimes there is a handwritten note saying "Not Orion Road", but sometimes they just don't go there. On Saturday afternoon just gone the route was operating a bus short, which meant some very long gaps later in the afternoon and standing passengers at 1800 on a Saturday.

There have been several recent reports of drivers getting out mid-journey to smoke; that hasn't been a regular sight since the 80s. There are currently a lot of vehicles hired in from other parts of Arriva, some of which are not in peak condition.

Medway has the second highest bus fares on the British mainland behind Warrington, but certainly doesn't have the second best bus service. That 145 has been reduced three times in the last 15 months. It was every 7½ minutes, then every 10, then every 12, and then the evening service was curtailed. (And yet the Sunday service was increased from every 30 minutes to every 20. Every 30 was ample.) This is not for want of passengers, so I can only imagine that it is for want of drivers and/or vehicles.

I've no idea whether Arriva is secretly hoping that another operator will offer to take Medway off their hands, but they show few signs of actually wanting it. You now have to go to Maidstone to buy a Medway annual ticket, because Arriva no longer operates the enquiry office at Chatham Bus Station. There is no stored value card (Kent CC has started one, but neither Arriva nor Stagecoach accepts it, and Arriva simply doesn't have one of its own), and there is no all-operators day ticket other than the south-east wide Discovery (£8.50, as against £4.80 for the all-operators ticket in Luton and Dunstable, which is an area of comparable size and also has Arriva as the main operator).

I really am surprised at the reductions on the 145, this route should be an absolute goldmine. I believe longer Darts, which aren't supposed to operate on the 145, cannot do the Orion Road bit.

Even the Sapphire 101 route often sees 04 reg Volvo B7TL's and single deckers, although at least the latter have the advertised wi-fi and usb chargers, the E400's seem to break down with alarming regularity even though they are only 2/3 years old. The 700 to Bluewater has recently been upgraded to sapphire but mixed single and double deckers for some strange reason, I'm not sure how safe having standing passengers is on the A2? Generally speaking the Kent operation do seem very poor and their social media accounts are often full of complaints. It also seems quite telling that the hybrid double deckers in Maidstone have been moved to Liverpool in exchange for diesels.

Dartford and Gravesend should be good bus operating territory but services are often poor and even the high profile fastrack services are often unreliable with bunching commonplace and seemingly very little in the way of regulating the service.

As for the Tunbridge Wells garage it has been sold for redevelopment (retirement flats) and operations have moved to Cannon Lane Tonbridge but will apparently move to a new site in the industrial part of Tunbridge Wells next year.

 

[SEClass375]

I really am surprised at the reductions on the 145, this route should be an absolute goldmine. I believe longer Darts, which aren't supposed to operate on the 145, cannot do the Orion Road bit.

Even the Sapphire 101 route often sees 04 reg Volvo B7TL's and single deckers, although at least the latter have the advertised wi-fi and usb chargers, the E400's seem to break down with alarming regularity even though they are only 2/3 years old. The 700 to Bluewater has recently been upgraded to sapphire but mixed single and double deckers for some strange reason, I'm not sure how safe having standing passengers is on the A2? Generally speaking the Kent operation do seem very poor and their social media accounts are often full of complaints. It also seems quite telling that the hybrid double deckers in Maidstone have been moved to Liverpool in exchange for diesels.

Dartford and Gravesend should be good bus operating territory but services are often poor and even the high profile fastrack services are often unreliable with bunching commonplace and seemingly very little in the way of regulating the service.

As for the Tunbridge Wells garage it has been sold for redevelopment (retirement flats) and operations have moved to Cannon Lane Tonbridge but will apparently move to a new site in the industrial part of Tunbridge Wells next year.

The 04 reg ALX400 B7TLs and the 51 reg lowlander (FE51 WSV) are considered a luxury compared to the 51/02/03 reg ex-London Geminis because the ALX400s have full height seats (and the newest double decker we have) and the lowlander has free WiFi.
But we have a better range of single deckers.

A problem that we have in TW is that in general, the buses are quite unreliable. Today we had a bus swap due to the bus having a fault.

 

[extendedpaul]

Medway has the second highest bus fares on the British mainland behind Warrington, but certainly doesn't have the second best bus service. That 145 has been reduced three times in the last 15 months. It was every 7½ minutes, then every 10, then every 12, and then the evening service was curtailed. (And yet the Sunday service was increased from every 30 minutes to every 20. Every 30 was ample.) This is not for want of passengers, so I can only imagine that it is for want of drivers and/or vehicles.

I've long considered Medway bus fares to be very high but I didn't know they are are only surpassed in Warrington. Is there a reference source for this information ?

The single fare from the bottom of my road to Rainham town centre is £2.20 for a distance of under a mile. I refuse to pay it and can walk without hurrying in 15 minutes.

 

[MedwayValiant]

I worked it out myself a few months back. When I have a bit of time I'll bring that spreadsheet up to date and publish it somewhere.

I was careful to say "British mainland" in order to exclude the Isle of Wight. The main operator there is Southern Vectis, and its day ticket for the whole island is £10.00. It doesn't offer a day ticket for a smaller region, and it doesn't offer return fares.

On the mainland, Warrington's day ticket is £5.95 and is valid only on Network Warrington services; as in Medway, no all-operators ticket is available. (No, you almost don't need one within Medway - but Arriva don't go to Medway City Estate, so anyone who needs to go there must use both Arriva and Nu-Venture.)

Since my original post about the 145, I've had a 42 minute wait and a 31 minute wait for a bus which supposedly runs every 12.

 

[Swanny200]

God, I remember the 145, had to travel from Delce Road to Thomas Aveling on that route, certainly different from the M&D operations with the Merc Breadvans. It does seem to have gone rapidly downhill, 2004 they did the whole project new start thing with the Alx400s and since then... not much has happened. It's like they are saying "We gave you new buses, what else do you want?"

 

[Antman]

God, I remember the 145, had to travel from Delce Road to Thomas Aveling on that route, certainly different from the M&D operations with the Merc Breadvans. It does seem to have gone rapidly downhill, 2004 they did the whole project new start thing with the Alx400s and since then... not much has happened. It's like they are saying "We gave you new buses, what else do you want?"

New buses aren't much good without drivers and apparently they are desperately short of them at Gillingham.

 

[MedwayValiant]

OK, I have now updated the little spreadsheet I mentioned earlier. It looks at the 50 largest urban centres in the UK - those with a population of 140,000 or more.

Two places - the Blackwater Valley Conurbation (ie Farnborough and Aldershot) and Warrington - have a more expensive day ticket for the main operator than does Medway. That the Blackwater Valley does is a little odd, since Stagecoach is usually the cheapest of the major operators. Warrington also has a more expensive weekly ticket for the main operator. (OK, and so does London if you consider TfL as one operator. But it's quite a lot bigger than Medway, the weekly ticket includes trams, and in any case it's only 20p more expensive than Medway.)

Eighteen of the 50 centres have no all operators ticket available. In the Blackwater Valley that's fine because Stagecoach is the only operator, but in the other seventeen some passengers will need more than one ticket to travel around town.

EDIT: I remembered about one second after I posted that Thamesdown Transport in Swindon is now a Go Ahead company and no longer publicly owned. The attached document claims otherwise!

 

[Antman]

In a quite astonishing gaffe by Arriva they published this on social media giving travel advice to various firework displays, all very good you might think until a few of their customers pointed out that some of the routes listed don't actually have any evening service, oh dear!!


Bonfire night is upon us and if you want to enjoy a firework display but don’t want to hassle of finding somewhere to park or paying extortionate car park fees then Arriva are here to take you there! There are some really great events happening around Kent and here are a few we’ve found:


• Tonbridge Fireworks is on 27th October at the ground of Tonbridge Angels FC. The 218/219 buses can take you here, just get off at The Pinnacles and it’s just a short walk away.


• Bearstead ...is hosting its annual display on 3rd November at the Elizabeth Harvie Field. Take the 9 bus and walk down from Mallings Lane.


• Sevenoaks Fireworks is on 4th November. If you fancy travelling over for it you could ride the 502 from Tunbridge Wells or the 308 from Gravesend.


• In Maidstone there is an exhibition at Kent Life on either the 4th or 5th November. If you’re taking the 101 walk here from Ringlestone BP Garage or from the 155 walk from Aylesford Malta Inn.


• New Ash Green has a fireworks night on 5th November. Take the 423/489 and walk down from North Square.


It’s definitely worth checking online and buying tickets to some of the events listed and if there’s a great event happening near you be sure to share it in the comments below!

 

[MedwayValiant]

Ha! I'm glad someone here has seen that, because the long reply on Facebook was in fact written by me; it is reproduced below. There has been no kind of response from Arriva. AIUI, the people who do this stuff for Arriva Kent and Surrey are in Luton (the one in Bedfordshire, not the one in Chatham), and their local knowledge is rather lacking.

Except that ...

The Tonbridge event took place a week ago, which is unfortunate because it would have been easy to travel to and from it by Arriva bus.

On the other hand, the last bus back from Bearsted on 3 November is at 1810, before the firework display begins.

The 502 is a schools service and does not operate on 4 November, which is a Saturday. The 402 would get you there from Tunbridge Wells, but the last bus back from Sevenoaks is at 1939, before the firework display begins. The last bus back to Gravesend is actually a 306 not a 308, and it's at 1853, before the firework display begins.

The New Ash Green event is on 5 November, which is a Sunday. Arriva chooses not to serve New Ash Green at all on Sundays, so anyone going to the fireworks will need to use a bus operated by Go-Coach.

Think about it before you make impossible suggestions to your customers ...

 

[telstarbox]

Does anyone know when Arriva started the X1 and X2 services in Kings Hill? The X1 is interesting as it runs non-stop via the M20 to Maidstone town centre.

 

[extendedpaul]

Does anyone know when Arriva started the X1 and X2 services in Kings Hill? The X1 is interesting as it runs non-stop via the M20 to Maidstone town centre.

From a google search it seems to have started on 6 February 2017 according to Kent Online.

 

[telstarbox]

Thanks - sorry, not sure how I missed that before :/

 

[MedwayValiant]

I was going to say "About this time last year", so I wasn't too far off.

Oddly, they didn't start as "normal" Arriva services out of Maidstone, but were run by New Enterprise - which mainly does private hire and coach tours - out of Tonbridge. New Enterprise is an Arriva company, but when the services first started Arriva's customer service didn't know about them and more than once they told enquirors on Facebook "We don't have any service called X1". When they moved from there to Maidstone I'm not sure.

 

[telstarbox]

Have Arriva got rid of a load of services around Tonbridge e.g. the 77 which used to be their route?

 

[alex397]

Have Arriva got rid of a load of services around Tonbridge e.g. the 77 which used to be their route?

They stopped operating the 77 between Tonbridge and Kings Hill in 2017. Nu Venture now operate the route. Don't think they've got rid of anything else recently.
They did stop operating Sevenoaks local services earlier this year.

 

[cnjb8]

SL16 YPH is now with Diamond Bus North West at Bolton.