Arriva Rail North DOO

[Robertj21a]

Maybe people should sign this if angry. https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/206088

Poor wording, poorly written. Hardly inspires anyone to want to join in !

 

[PHILIPE]

Maybe people should sign this if angry. https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/206088

Being discussed here:-

www.railforums.co.uk/threads/northern-rails-problems-in-lancashire.163590

 

[northwichcat]

Maybe people should sign this if angry. https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/206088

Posted before. Makes no sense whatever and I doubt whoever set it up realises that TPE is run by First Group and if they do they never travelled on FNW services.

 

[northwichcat]

Train times for Thursday have appeared on RTT. It looks like Northern are running an almost identical timetable to the last weekday strike day, despite the changes to train times happening tomorrow.

 

[IanXC]

Train times for Thursday have appeared on RTT. It looks like Northern are running an almost identical timetable to the last weekday strike day, despite the changes to train times happening tomorrow.

Whereabouts are you looking? Leeds looks rather like an amended version of the new timetable as far as I can see.

 

[northwichcat]

Whereabouts are you looking? Leeds looks rather like an amended version of the new timetable as far as I can see.

Mid Cheshire has same times as last time, despite recast timetable and a few other Manchester area routes seem to be the same.

 

[John R]

It makes sense to keep to a now routine emergency service which everyone will be familiar with, both staff and passengers.

 

[Dentonian]

Train times for Thursday have appeared on RTT. It looks like Northern are running an almost identical timetable to the last weekday strike day, despite the changes to train times happening tomorrow.

Sorry, what's "RTT"? There is nothing on the Northern Rail site (just checked), so is "RTT" something available to the general public?

 

[LOL The Irony]

Real Time Trains

 

[Bromley boy]

Sorry, what's "RTT"? There is nothing on the Northern Rail site (just checked), so is "RTT" something available to the general public?

RTT = Real Time Trains.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/

Open Train Times is similar, but better, and may give you live track diagrams, depending on location.

https://www.opentraintimes.com/

 

[kw12]

Sorry, what's "RTT"? There is nothing on the Northern Rail site (just checked), so is "RTT" something available to the general public?

Real Time Trains.
Yes, it is available to general public. It takes an open data feed from Network Rail, in same way as sites such as Open Train Times

 

[Dentonian]

Real Time Trains.
Yes, it is available to general public. It takes an open data feed from Network Rail, in same way as sites such as Open Train Times

Got it. Yes, mine looks like AM trains are based on previous t/t. PM is unchanged as they've simply reduced the service by one an hour and kept the times of the other departures. I'll be on the bus to work on Thursday, then - but depending on punctuality of the new TT, that will probably be the norm from now on, anyway.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Heaton Chapel is still showing a fair few trains for Saturday morning, but not the 07:17 ex-Stoke. Has the amended timetable not yet been published for Saturday?

 

[northwichcat]

Heaton Chapel is still showing a fair few trains for Saturday morning, but not the 07:17 ex-Stoke. Has the amended timetable not yet been published for Saturday?

Only looks like Thursday's revised timetable is on RTT. Not sure which service you are talking about the first Stoke to Manchester on a Saturday is 06:58, arriving at Stockport at 07:42 and running non-stop to Piccadilly.

I can see those in Birchwood being very unhappy - the last Northern strike day they had an hourly TPE service to Liverpool up until 23:25. This time (now the fast has transferred to Northern) they only have an hourly all-stops between Oxford Rd and Warrington up until 18:30 plus 3 peak time extra EMT services

 

[woodmally]

So does anyone think this latest strike will make any difference? If not, like me, any thoughts on when the next lot will be?

 

[OxtedSignaller]

So does anyone think this latest strike will make any difference? If not, like me, any thoughts on when the next lot will be?

Doubt it the more the strikes happen the better the company becomes at contingency planning and the more the poor Guards are left out of pocket because let’s be honest Northern aren’t the highest paying TOC.

The precedent for DOO has been set on Southern/GTR so I can’t see them giving in at this stage. It will all come to a head when new rolling stock is introduced and ASLEF have had their say on the matter. The RMT have shown that they can’t negotiate and I fear they will leave the Guards in an unfavourable predicament like on GTR. Let’s be honest Northern are keeping their cards close to their chest and not even offering any sort of second person guarantee.

 

[woodmally]

Doubt it the more the strikes happen the better the company becomes at contingency planning and the more the poor Guards are left out of pocket because let’s be honest Northern aren’t the highest paying TOC.

The precedent for DOO has been set on Southern/GTR so I can’t see them giving in at this stage. It will all come to a head when new rolling stock is introduced and ASLEF have had their say on the matter. The RMT have shown that they can’t negotiate and I fear they will leave the Guards in an unfavourable predicament like on GTR. Let’s be honest Northern are keeping their cards close to their chest and not even offering any sort of second person guarantee.

I thought Northern was offering to keep the second person for the life of the contract. Well that's what they always say.

 

[northwichcat]

I thought Northern was offering to keep the second person for the life of the contract. Well that's what they always say.

They're not offering a guarantee of two people on every service that operates but are guaranteeing all existing guards will retain employment and won't be moved to a lower pay scale for duration of the franchise (currently expected to end in 2025.) Ironically if Arriva are stripped of the franchise a replacement publicly owned franchise may not offer that guarantee, despite the RMT wanting the 'greedy private German' company to be stripped of the franchise and it to go back to state ownership.

 

[Economist]

The reality is with striking for 24-48 hours is that it's not really going to make a huge impact, the government/TOC can sit it out without any difficulty.

Since strike pay is banned as far as I know, what unions should consider is encouraging their members, over the course of a couple of years, to save a few months pay into an account which they only dip into in event of a strike/dismissal/medical problem etc. It would probably be tough to do on a guard's salary but drivers shouldn't have too much of a problem.

That way, drivers (and possibly guards too) could walk out for a month or two at a time if they wanted to do so, yet not have to worry about putting food ln the table.

 

[pompeyfan]

Strike pay isn’t iligeal if dressed up differently. I know of RMT and Unite both issuing hardship payments to their members during industrial action.

 

[Chester1]

The reality is with striking for 24-48 hours is that it's not really going to make a huge impact, the government/TOC can sit it out without any difficulty.

Since strike pay is banned as far as I know, what unions should consider is encouraging their members, over the course of a couple of years, to save a few months pay into an account which they only dip into in event of a strike/dismissal/medical problem etc. It would probably be tough to do on a guard's salary but drivers shouldn't have too much of a problem.

That way, drivers (and possibly guards too) could walk out for a month or two at a time if they wanted to do so, yet not have to worry about putting food ln the table.

Why would drivers make that sort of sacrifice? Northern drivers have not striked over DOO yet. My bet will be they will copy Southern drivers by striking a few times, take 30 pieces of silver and only get millitant if Northern break a DOO agreement.

 

[Economist]

Why would drivers make that sort of sacrifice? Northern drivers have not striked over DOO yet. My bet will be they will copy Southern drivers by striking a few times, take 30 pieces of silver and only get millitant if Northern break a DOO agreement.

The saving side of things is something which in my opinion should be pretty standard, I'm a driver myself and something of a frugal sort.

The strike side of things is more interesting, from what I've seen of company DOO policies (and the overriding message they present tends to be common across TOCs), they are there to hang drivers out to dry if something goes wrong. If I were a non-DOO driver being presented with DOO, I'd want at the very least some sort of indemnity against disciplinary action and/or a prosecution in the event of an incident.

 

[filey donkey]

No trains between scarborough and Bridlington this time because northern have taken back the work of the scarborough tpe crews which ran 2 trains each way in the last strike. northern have put 3 buses on instead.

 

[LowLevel]

Give up on the Cheshire Lines via Widnes as well. Now all Northern so hardly any service and EMT sending a load of 2 cars vice 4 due to unit shortages.

 

[muz379]

The strike side of things is more interesting, from what I've seen of company DOO policies (and the overriding message they present tends to be common across TOCs), they are there to hang drivers out to dry if something goes wrong. If I were a non-DOO driver being presented with DOO, I'd want at the very least some sort of indemnity against disciplinary action and/or a prosecution in the event of an incident.

This has been addressed previously . The TOC may be able to offer an agreement around protection from company disciplinary action although this would be uncommon and as a paper agreement could be revoked at any time by a future franchise operator .

But it would be impossible to offer an indemnity against prosecution which is probably the more serious of the two anyway seeing as a prosecution could result in the deprivation of your liberty .

 

[northwichcat]

Strike timetables for Saturday are now on the Northern website.

As there's no trains from Stockport-Chester I suggest people avoid the ATW service between Manchester and Chester unless essential, given the Chester racegoers who normally change to the Northern service at Stockport will probably squash on to the ATW service at Piccadilly instead.

 

[Kieran1990]

3 Trains an hour on the Leeds-Horsforth section of the Harrogate loop... why more services during the strike? I was expecting something hourly to be honest

 

[XDM]

Strike pay isn’t iligeal if dressed up differently. I know of RMT and Unite both issuing hardship payments to their members during industrial action.

Are you sure strike pay is illegal if not dressed up?
I stand corrected, but I am sure it is legal. Why shouldn't it be?
It is not public money.
Indeed it saves public money, if the RMT's misled cannon fodder are paid strike pay there is no way they can claim from the state while on strike.

 

[pompeyfan]

Are you sure strike pay is illegal if not dressed up?
I stand corrected, but I am sure it is legal. Why shouldn't it be?
It is not public money.
Indeed it saves public money, if the RMT's misled cannon fodder are paid strike pay there is no way they can claim from the state while on strike.

I wasn’t sure if it had to be dressed up or not, but have know both the above unions to provide their members with money during industrial action.

 

[theblackwatch]

3 Trains an hour on the Leeds-Horsforth section of the Harrogate loop... why more services during the strike? I was expecting something hourly to be honest

That has been the case on the past few strike days. I don't think there can be any other places that have a better service during the daytime on strike days than normally.