Arriva Rail North Timetable/Travel Advice on Strike Days

[Bungle965]

I have created this thread as any sort of coverage of the amended timetable on strike days as any sort of coverage in the DOO thread simply gets lost with the argument for and against DOO on Northern.

In terms of the alternative timetable on strike days, it seems to we are getting to a low point since the strikes have started with only 30% of services running across the whole network.
Certainly on my line it is the first time that we have 0 trains whatsoever, instead it seems resources have been centred on Bolton-Manchester shuttles and providing as much service as possible on that line.
Slight annoyance when Bolton passengers have bus services which will take them to Manchester, while passengers on the Calder Valley up until Rochdale where passengers can either use Metrolink (no ticket acceptance once again!) or the 17 bus. If you live in Todmordon or Littleborough for example and want to visit the Christmas Markets the car appears to be the only option!

Sam

 

[ainsworth74]

As per the OP this thread is NOT to be used for DOO discussion. An existing thread exists for that and it should be used for that sort of discussion. ANY discussion of DOO will be deleted as being off-topic.

 

[jamesst]

I have created this thread as any sort of coverage of the amended timetable on strike days as any sort of coverage in the DOO thread simply gets lost with the argument for and against DOO on Northern.

In terms of the alternative timetable on strike days, it seems to we are getting to a low point since the strikes have started with only 30% of services running across the whole network.
Certainly on my line it is the first time that we have 0 trains whatsoever, instead it seems resources have been centred on Bolton-Manchester shuttles and providing as much service as possible on that line.
Slight annoyance when Bolton passengers have bus services which will take them to Manchester, while passengers on the Calder Valley up until Rochdale where passengers can either use Metrolink (no ticket acceptance once again!) or the 17 bus. If you live in Todmordon or Littleborough for example and want to visit the Christmas Markets the car appears to be the only option!

Sam

The strike day services out of Lime Street seem to be getting drastically cut from this Saturday too,big gaps on both the Wigan and Manchester Victoria lines

 

[northernchris]

Certainly on my line it is the first time that we have 0 trains whatsoever, instead it seems resources have been centred on Bolton-Manchester shuttles and providing as much service as possible on that line.

With the Bolton blockade complete it stretches the limited resources even further. It must be difficult to decide which services to operate, however I've noticed this week the Skipton-Leeds services are hourly from late morning rather than half hourly whereas the Bradford - Skipton remains hourly. Given that Leeds generates more passengers than Bradford, and the section between Keighley and Bradford has a decent bus service, I would have thought the Bradford service would have been scrapped in order to protect the Leeds services.

 

[_toommm_]

It's quite difficult to tell the difference on my line out to Ashton and Stalybridge. Were still down to one train per hour on the 'temporary' timetable, so strike days don't make much difference!

 

[Starmill]

Huge cuts affect the Norhtern service at intermediate stations between Manchester Piccadilly and Manchester Airport with no service after the final shuttle, 1359 Manchester Airport to Manchester Piccadilly. I was advised of this recently by a member of local ticket office staff who put it down to an inadequate number of contingency guards.

It's quite difficult to tell the difference on my line out to Ashton and Stalybridge. Were still down to one train per hour on the 'temporary' timetable, so strike days don't make much difference!

Well Ashton-under-Lyne is not being served, so I would say that the difference between an hourly service 0600 -2330, with peak extras, and no service is rather stark.

With the Bolton blockade complete it stretches the limited resources even further.

It would seem that there has been a very significant reduction in the replacement bus resources they are willing to deploy on a strike day now that engineiring work is complete. Presumably part of the costs of these buses was covered by the contracts with Network Rail while the work was taking palce, and Northern now have to pay for the limited bus replacements themselves. There is no service between Wigan and Bolton at all.

Taking this all together it appears that the total number of trains that can run on a strike day is greatly reduced by comparison with the position at the start of the Saturday Strikes back in August. It's a bit like the opposite of what happeend at Southern, where the number of trains that could operate on strike days increased slowly. Here it is going down over time.

it seems to we are getting to a low point since the strikes have started with only 30% of services running across the whole network.

30% seems like a slight over-estimate? Although looking back at it they do say almost 30%.

 

[CHAPS2034]

The strike service at Cheadle Hulme has varied wildly over the last few weeks.

Normally you would have 6 trains in 2 hours to Manchester and vv; from Crewe, Alderley Edge and Stoke on Trent hourly

Two weeks ago there were 3 trains per 2 hours (hourly from Alderley Edge and one every 2 hours from Macclesfield).

Last weekend - and this - there is only one every two hours (from Alderley) with no local service to Macclesfield. I think this was also the case about a month ago but I've lost track...

I'm not surprised that the number of stand in guards is declining the longer this goes on - isn't that part of the RMT tactics to wear them down working at weekends which I guess most would normally have off to spend with their families?

Anyway, I'm now intimately acquainted with the local bus timetables on Saturdays to start any journey - luckily I have an old farts bus pass so no extra expenditure required. But I guess most people will go by car - or not travel at all.

 

[M60lad]

On checking the timetable for this weekend it seems its the 1st weekend where there are no trains whatsoever running to/from Rochdale from any direction with Station virtually closed allday from what I can gather.

 

[Gems]

No trains on the S&C again. Just two replacement buses each way taking four hours. Very picturesque run though, almost as good as the train.

 

[rg177]

Indeed one suspects that contingency guards are getting increasingly fed up having been drafted in as working odd days only for it to turn into a Saturday job.

A couple of weeks back I remember seeing a Rochdale to Leeds stopper being in the timetable one Friday morning. By the time it got to the next morning it had been swiftly deleted and there was next to no service between Todmorden and Hebden Bridge except for buses.

Fast forward a few weeks and we now have no rail service to Rochdale never mind beyond. Even the 1820 which even on strike days from Leeds to Manchester previously is now curtailed at Hebden Bridge.

 

[skifans]

Bentham line essentially loses its service - should be 7 return services but cut back to 1 bus. Leaves Skipton at 0755 and arrives Lancaster 1011 whereas the return leaves Lancaster at 1615 to reach Skipton at 1828. The route is duplicated by the slower 582/581/580 bus route which takes longer but generally stops in more convenient places nearer to the villages. Timetable: http://www.kirkbylonsdalecoachhire.co.uk/index.php/bus-services/timetable-580-581-582 be very carefull if using Google Maps as it dosn't properly deal with through services and can result in some very poor routings.

 

[Gems]

Bentham line essentially loses its service - should be 7 return services but cut back to 1 bus. Leaves Skipton at 0755 and arrives Lancaster 1011 whereas the return leaves Lancaster at 1615 to reach Skipton at 1828. The route is duplicated by the slower 582/581/580 bus route which takes longer but generally stops in more convenient places nearer to the villages. Timetable: http://www.kirkbylonsdalecoachhire.co.uk/index.php/bus-services/timetable-580-581-582 be very carefull if using Google Maps as it dosn't properly deal with through services and can result in some very poor routings.

Leeds - Morecambe has never had a service on a strike day. But even the bus links to Settle seem to be dwindling now.

 

[ainsworth74]

I wonder if there's another East / West split developing. My line (Saltburn to Darlington) has the same level of service it always has on a strike day as far as I can see.

 

[Gems]

I wonder if there's another East / West split developing. My line (Saltburn to Darlington) has the same level of service it always has on a strike day as far as I can see.

East/West split? You have no idea. It has been like trying to merge Chelsea with West Ham. The odd brawl is bound to break out followed by the occasional riot.
In truth, a lot of managers are saying enough is enough. They are saying it to us personally. It is just going to get worse as Christmas approaches.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

On strike Saturdays my local station Elsecar seems to alternate between having a rail service between Sheffield and Barnsley one week and a replacement bus between Meadowhall and Barnsley the other. Rather confusingly this Saturday we seem to have both buses AND trains, in some cases departing a few minutes apart!

https://d2cf7kiw5xizhy.cloudfront.net/images/timetables/bucket/sheffield---barnsley---leeds-1497.pdf

 

[Andyh82]

The Calder Valley varies but is always much poorer than you’d expect. There is often nothing west of Halifax, sometimes something very limited. Never anything doing the full route and never anything via Brighouse.

The Airedale and Wharfedale is still often up to every 30 minutes

 

[Bungle965]

The Calder Valley varies but is always much poorer than you’d expect. There is often nothing west of Halifax, sometimes something very limited. Never anything doing the full route and never anything via Brighouse.

The Airedale and Wharfedale is still often up to every 30 minutes

It seems to change every weekend there is a strike on, there is no consistency.
Last week there was 1 through service, there and back. While other weeks there has been nothing.
Normally we get a service to Rochdale and to Todmordon. Rochdale all stops and the Todmordon fast to Rochdale, last weekend the stations east of Rochdale (Castleton, Mills Hill and Moston) got no service whatsoever.
2 of those stations have a direct bus route to both Rochdale and Manchester however of course there is no chance of getting tickets accepted on them, especially when Northern won't even get their tickets accepted on Metrolink.
Sam

 

[MDB1images]

Blackpool to Manchester has gone from 6 car Class 156's to nothing with efforts focussed on Blackpool to Preston and TPE taking the strain to Manchester.
Rail replacement buses via Bolton have run but at least one of these are timed just in front of the TPE train so everyone waits for the train (especially if going to Manchester)which means all TPE services are full and standing from 08:47 onwards each way until pretty much close of play save for the odd exception.

 

[Paul Duck]

I wonder if there's another East / West split developing. My line (Saltburn to Darlington) has the same level of service it always has on a strike day as far as I can see.

Earlier in the week we did have a 4 hour gap at Eaglescliffe in each direction. The missing train seems to have re appeared. Starting to feel for the guys having to work every Saturday to provide some sort of service in the North East and I thank them for it. Know how they feel working every Saturday

 

[Flyingsprinter]

On the Calder Valley as has been said they are no trains out of Manchester to Bradford, but there isn’t even a replacement bus service until Todmorden.
Nothing at all between Manchester, Rochdale and Todmorden. No train or Bus.
Are northern cutting yet even more corners by not even running a bus?

Means I now have a very complicated Saturday as I banked on there being at the bare minimum a bus as far as Todmorden.

 

[js1000]

Seems to me as if only a few short < 30 minute suburban shuttle lines in Greater Manchester consistently operate on Saturdays now. Bolton to Manchester, Manchester to Airport etc. Otherwise, if you're travelling from outside Greater Manchester into it then you've pretty much had it.

 

[Bungle965]

Seems to me as if only a few short < 30 minute suburban shuttle lines in Greater Manchester consistently operate on Saturdays now. Bolton to Manchester, Manchester to Airport etc. Otherwise, if you're travelling from outside Greater Manchester into it then you've pretty much had it.

Yes, what diminishing resources are available seems to have been concentrated on running a Bolton to Manchester shuttle service.
I at least expected Metrolink ticket acceptance this time.
Disappointed but not surprised.
Sam

 

[Flyingsprinter]

Why does there appear to be less and less services each week? It doesn’t make sense. Surely the same people are on strike each week leaving a similar number each week working?

 

[Bungle965]

Why does there appear to be less and less services each week? It doesn’t make sense. Surely the same people are on strike each week leaving a similar number each week working?

It's getting nearer Christmas the PUG's (Persons Utilised as Guard) choose not to work as a result, also to do with the fact that they may be falling behind in their own job roles as a result of having to turn up and work what can be a quite intensive shift on a Saturday.
Sam

 

[totally]

I have advance tickets for Swansea to Blackpool North for Saturday, routed via Manchester. As there is basically only the TPE service Manchester to Preston and my booked northern train is clearly not running can I leave to Transport for Wales Train at Crewe and travel using Virgin to Preston from where there is a service to Blackpool? Any suggestions are appreciated.

 

[Starmill]

In truth, a lot of managers are saying enough is enough. They are saying it to us personally. It is just going to get worse as Christmas approaches.

Do you mean, from the point of view that the contingency guards are fed up with the long hours and loss of their Saturday off with friends and family, and in addition that they're increasingly having to react to disorderly passengers on trains too?

That would be a particularly rum deal if so, and would explain much of the reduced service.

Of course, if trains don't run, then there can be no disorderly passengers.

 

[Starmill]

I have advance tickets for Swansea to Blackpool North for Saturday, routed via Manchester. As there is basically only the TPE service Manchester to Preston and my booked northern train is clearly not running can I leave to Transport for Wales Train at Crewe and travel using Virgin to Preston from where there is a service to Blackpool? Any suggestions are appreciated.

I would ask this question of the station staff at your origin and also the guard on your first service. You can also get in touch with Northern by twitter or phone (I have personally not experienced any positive results from these options but I'm aware others have so don't let that prejudice your trying). If they all say no (be prepared for all of them to say no; there is not a great deal of customer focus in this area) then personally I would just take their advice and just wait for the next train at Manchester Piccadilly. You can then claim delay repay from Northern for cancelling your Manchester to Blackpool train. Fighting the pointaabout changing at Crewe is quite possible but I'm not sure it's worth it.

Your problem will likely arise if the TransPennine Express train is too full to board (the risk of this is significant). If that happens, or to pre-empt that, you could use one of the Northern services from Manchester Victoria to Wigan Wallgate then Virgin Trains from Wigan to Preston. You will likely find a Northern contingency guard willing to grant you permission to use your ticket in whatever way you wish, pretty much.

You could alternatively attempt to just do your plan and rely on this:

Other Advance fares requiring a Northern connecting service
Customers who have an advance ticket with a Northern origin or destination station, where we offer the connection using another train operator’s service,and want to travel on a different date than is printed on their ticket, can travel on:

Friday 16 November or Sunday 18 November for tickets dated Saturday 17 November.

This will be honoured by the following operators: Chiltern, C2C, Cross Country, Gatwick Express, Great Northern, Greater Anglia, Great Western Railways, Hull Trains, London Northwestern, London North Eastern Railway, ScotRail, South Eastern, Southern, Thameslink, TransPennine Express, Transport for Wales, Virgin Trains and West Midlands Trains.

This is not vastly helpful to you if you're not travelling on a different day but want to travel on different services. You may also lose your entitlement to compensation. All depends on your priorities.

 

[Scotrail314209]

Blackpool to Manchester has gone from 6 car Class 156's to nothing with efforts focussed on Blackpool to Preston and TPE taking the strain to Manchester.
Rail replacement buses via Bolton have run but at least one of these are timed just in front of the TPE train so everyone waits for the train (especially if going to Manchester)which means all TPE services are full and standing from 08:47 onwards each way until pretty much close of play save for the odd exception.

Witnessed that myself at Preston, came from Scotland to change for Manchester. Decided not to bother as I had limited time and no way was I getting that train. Surely 1tph via Bolton from Preston would do something.

 

[Gems]

Do you mean, from the point of view that the contingency guards are fed up with the long hours and loss of their Saturday off with friends and family, and in addition that they're increasingly having to react to disorderly passengers on trains too?

That would be a particularly rum deal if so, and would explain much of the reduced service.

Of course, if trains don't run, then there can be no disorderly passengers.

There is a multitude of incidents and events that has gone on. I'll give you a few examples.

In the early days of the strikes some of the PUG diagrams were just short of the maximum allowed. this they got away with since the strikes were intermittent. Not on a weekly basis. One driver told me some of them at the end looked absolutely exhausted.

Not many guards have gone back to work, but the few that have still only book on at their booking on times, this means that diagrams can only be partly covered by them. So what you find is working guards are relieving PUG's, this means no extra services can be planned.

Then we have had incidents of anti social behaviour. One guard who went into work was assaulted at Leeds I hear. Another PUG felt so intimidated by large groups of rowdy passengers he retreated to the back cab almost in tears. Another PUG was not happy when a drunk passenger decided to throw up against the back cab door. So it has to be said you are quite right, I'm afraid a few ignorant and selfish passengers themselves are creating the conditions where some PUG's are saying enough is enough.

My apologies for going slightly off topic, but I felt it right that people understood some of the reasons for the dwindling services.

 

[Bungle965]

There is a multitude of incidents and events that has gone on. I'll give you a few examples.

In the early days of the strikes some of the PUG diagrams were just short of the maximum allowed. this they got away with since the strikes were intermittent. Not on a weekly basis. One driver told me some of them at the end looked absolutely exhausted.

Not many guards have gone back to work, but the few that have still only book on at their booking on times, this means that diagrams can only be partly covered by them. So what you find is working guards are relieving PUG's, this means no extra services can be planned.

Then we have had incidents of anti social behaviour. One guard who went into work was assaulted at Leeds I hear. Another PUG felt so intimidated by large groups of rowdy passengers he retreated to the back cab almost in tears. Another PUG was not happy when a drunk passenger decided to throw up against the back cab door. So it has to be said you are quite right, I'm afraid a few ignorant and selfish passengers themselves are creating the conditions where some PUG's are saying enough is enough.

My apologies for going slightly off topic, but I felt it right that people understood some of the reasons for the dwindling services.

I'm not even surprised at the fact that there are dwindling numbers of PUG's wanting to work, I certainly would not want to week after week working the maximum amount of time the company can squeeze out of you.
At the end of it, if you make a mistake because you are so exhausted that comes down on you, the company in the grand scheme of things don't really care. Like I mentioned previously, your own work suffers as a result.

The impact on other TOC's is starting to show now, East Midlands Trains are having to cancel their own services in order to run longer carriages on their Liverpool-Manchester route because the level of overcrowding has become so bad. TPE suffer from chronic overcrowding at the best of times, that gets even worse when there's a strike on.
Northern just appear to be getting away with providing the bare minimum in terms of alternative transport such as ticket acceptance on local buses and Metrolink.
Sam