Arriva Rail Northern to be stripped of franchise

[GRALISTAIR]

Realistically will it change anything or improve punctuality?

Certainly not in the short term. Medium term possibly.

 

[WesternLancer]

It is, but the BBC's interpretation seems to be somewhat different to other news sources.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50971629

that's a much better report than elsewhere in the press, with more informed comment too.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Why should Greater Manchester commuters be any greater a priority than West Yorkshire, South Yorkshire, north east etc?

Because Burnham shouts loudest?

 

[tbtc]

This empty announcement is purely a 'dead cat' to divert attention away from the fare rise. And it appears to be working.

Exactly, which is why I'm surprised that there's been so much attention spent on this - it's the first working day of the year, people are fed up enough and then they get to the station to find that their ticket has gone up in price (only in line with inflation, but still, an increase)... any savvy politician is going to want to divert attention away from that.

I'm not convinced that Shapps will be any good at Transport, but he's a lot "cannier" than Grayling, he's more adept in the Dark Arts, he knows how to engineer a smokescreen and distract people away from bad news - we can probably expect more stunts like this as he continues to find inconvenient truths that he wants to deflect attention away from (to feed the compliant press a nice simplistic story full of Tough Talk and the likes)

 

[WesternLancer]

The itrm is nowhere on the BBC News website's national pages. If it had been GTR I suspect it would be a different story.

maybe the BBC checked posts #2 and #3 on this thread before just 'buying' the spin...

 

[Trackman]

Her...

Mary Hewitt so I'm lead to believe.

 

[WesternLancer]

Exactly, which is why I'm surprised that there's been so much attention spent on this - it's the first working day of the year, people are fed up enough and then they get to the station to find that their ticket has gone up in price (only in line with inflation, but still, an increase)... any savvy politician is going to want to divert attention away from that.

I'm not convinced that Shapps will be any good at Transport, but he's a lot "cannier" than Grayling, he's more adept in the Dark Arts, he knows how to engineer a smokescreen and distract people away from bad news - we can probably expect more stunts like this as he continues to find inconvenient truths that he wants to deflect attention away from (to feed the compliant press a nice simplistic story full of Tough Talk and the likes)

A very good overveiw!

I seem to recall Mr Shapps even has another name for smokescreen use....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grant_Shapps#Denials_of_pseudonym_and_second_job

 

[samuelmorris]

that's a much better report than elsewhere in the press, with more informed comment too.

and indeed, not front page news, as the status quo hasn't actually changed yet. Interesting, as some news outlets are convinced Arriva are being stripped of the franchise, so I suppose if this was intended to divert attention from the fare rise, it's worked. People hoping for this to happen, however, must have very short memories - it wasn't that long ago Arriva took over the franchise from someone else. It doesn't really need mentioning in here that the franchise would be in basically the same position regardless of which of the UK's TOC parents was running it. In my humble opinion, OLR will also make very little difference. My only real hope is that now more parts of the north are voting conservative they may be repaid in kind by an increase in subsidised investment up there. Further electrification still seems a bit optimistic, but extension of the fleet withdrawal to cover the 150s and 156s seems perfectly reasonable to ask for.

 

[hwl]

Exactly, which is why I'm surprised that there's been so much attention spent on this - it's the first working day of the year, people are fed up enough and then they get to the station to find that their ticket has gone up in price (only in line with inflation, but still, an increase)... any savvy politician is going to want to divert attention away from that.

I'm not convinced that Shapps will be any good at Transport, but he's a lot "cannier" than Grayling, he's more adept in the Dark Arts, he knows how to engineer a smokescreen and distract people away from bad news - we can probably expect more stunts like this as he continues to find inconvenient truths that he wants to deflect attention away from (to feed the compliant press a nice simplistic story full of Tough Talk and the likes)

He also knows sorting stuff takes time...

 

[DJH1971]

All I have to say is good riddance to them.

 

[Scott M]

If it was a southern franchise overseeing a raft of cancellations, no Sunday service and overcrowded pacers on long-distance services, they would have been stripped long ago.

 

[LOL The Irony]

A case of "be careful what you wish for," I fear.

100% this.

 

[jfollows]

The BBC also posted the attached chart showing Northern's cancellations since 2014 which is interesting, essentially that although May 2018 was a big problem in fact the number of cancellations now exceeds those then. "One in 16 trains cancelled in the four weeks to 7 December 2019". And this is when the earlier industrial dispute has supposedly been resolved.

 

[squizzler]

I always cringe at press terminology of TOC's being 'stripped' of their franchises. I understand it is related to the terminology of, for example, athletes who fail a dope test being 'stripped' of any medals won by cheating. I think better terminology would be of the the TOC being 'relieved' of their franchise like a failed sea captain or general being relieved of their command.

 

[8H]

This is the fear. Hopefully even the Tory party wouldn't have the front to implement a mini-Beeching programme after getting elected on a 'policy' aspiration of reversing Beeching !

What you could see “Michael Green Grant Shapps” to give him his full name, doing is to “give” the regional and local authorities more control over Northern rail routes without any genuine additional money thereby switching the blame off Whitehall and saving some money to spend in the South East.

 

[E16 Cyclist]

They can strip as many toc’s of their franchise as they like as that’s not the problem, until something is done about the dft or power given to someone who says some idea about railways and how they work nothing is going to change

Most of the blame for this mess lies at the department’s door and northern have been the fool guys. So far the departments magic touch has affected Southern/GTR, South Western, Northern, makes you wonder who’s next..

 

[Darandio]

I always cringe at press terminology of TOC's being 'stripped' of their franchises. I understand it is related to the terminology of, for example, athletes who fail a dope test being 'stripped' of any medals won by cheating. I think better terminology would be of the the TOC being 'relieved' of their franchise like a failed sea captain or general being relieved of their command.

It's hardly press terminology when the likes of Shapps, Burnham and Houchen use the term repeatedly.

 

[js1000]

Split the Liverpool to Crewe and Southport to Alderley Edge services as they were prior to May 2018 timetable and punctuality should improve dramatically (this will benefit TPE's poor punctuality/cancellations also by removing some Castlefield services)

 

[jfollows]

Split the Liverpool to Crewe and Southport to Alderley Edge as they were prior to May 2018 timetable and watch punctuality improve dramatically (this will benefit TPE also)

Please!
The only benefit of the local service serving Wilmslow at the moment is that it's not necessary to look at a timetable. I visit my friend Terry for lunch occasionally in Heaton Chapel (he and his retired mates with sheds made the running-in board) and it's very liberating that I don't time my return to coincide with a booked train, instead I just turn up at the station when I want to - on the last two occasions my arrival coincided with the (very late) arrival of the Wigan-Alderley Edge service and so it was a very efficient journey for me.
As well as providing an unreliable service on local trains plus a horribly rattly DMU environment, the Wigan-Alderley frequently delays the xx.55 fast Manchester-London service between Adswood Road Junction and Alderley Edge.

 

[Sceptre]

Because Burnham shouts loudest?

Tories in Skipton and Harrogate have also been spending the past ten years systematically undermining devolution talks, so there’s no voice for Yorkshire like Burnham is for Manchester.

 

[wolfman]

Not make the slightest difference,will still be run by the teapot jockeys in the Dft.

 

[jfollows]

Whoever is in charge at Northern needs to work out the industrial relations problems which still appear to exist, resolve these to mutual satisfaction, and introduce new contracts for new hires which are more appropriate to today's working environment than yesterday's. It's for the management to lead and drive this process. The reasons for the problems and the "fault" attribution for them aren't important. It won't be easy, it will take time, and it appears beyond the capability of the current management.

 

[Winthorpe]

What you could see “Michael Green Grant Shapps” to give him his full name

What's the significance of Shapps' full name to this matter?

 

[yorkie]

This appears to be going over the same ground as the previous threads ( https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...d-north-east-franchises-from-march-31.197313/ and https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...nd-things-are-only-going-to-get-worse.196916/ )

This thread is eing used to discuss off topic matters and has become a "master thread" for Northern, which isn't the purpose of this thread, it is therefore locked.

Just a gentle reminder that posts like this...

Split the Liverpool to Crewe and Southport to Alderley Edge services as they were prior to May 2018 timetable and punctuality should improve dramatically (this will benefit TPE's poor punctuality/cancellations also by removing some Castlefield services)

...are more than welcome on the forum, but we do require them to be posted in the Speculative Ideas section of the forum.

Some threads that may be of interest include:

• https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/castlefield-corridor-potential-solutions.197125/
• https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/northern-rail-in-2020-your-hopes-and-predictions.197619/
• https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...to-two-franchises-how-would-you-do-it.197322/

If anyone wishes to discuss anything not already covered by an existing thread, please create a thread in the appropriate area of the forum.

The forum has plenty of capacity for threads; there is no need to try to cram loads of discussion points into one thread