Arriva Trains Wales Strike

[notadriver]

Train Drivers are (usually overpaid) (in my opinion) but as a guard that gets approx 14k less than the average driver I do wonder how much money Drivers want, btw I hate this I pay your wages cack as to be honest we all do through taxation as most lines are heavily subsidised, there are 2 people on the avg train, both are safety crritical, only one has 2 automated safety systems if they foul up, guards get "9" on the buzzer if they are getting beaten up....f'in g8 isn't it

Surely the safety critical role of the driver is more involved than a guards? Are there still guards who are responsible for safety of the train and passengers?

 

[Failed Unit]

Surely the safety critical role of the driver is more involved than a guards? Are there still guards who are responsible for safety of the train and passengers?

Yes most of the former regional railways operators (if not all)

 

[notadriver]

Yes most of the former regional railways operators (if not all)

Actually didn't know that. So if a guard on a regional train found a defect such as no heating, could they 'fail' the train and not take it into service ?

 

[CarterUSM]

Yet again, a thread about strike action ends up with the same old arguments. @ 313103 and ANorthernGuard, I wouldn't waste my time arguing the point, you and I are paid "too much", do "everything" Bob Crow(e) says, and are"lucky" to have a job.

 

[tirphil]

As I said in my original post, we don't know the details of the offer. Hell, if my union (USDAW) negotiated a 12% rise over 2 years, we wouldn't reject it, we would just try to bargain with the management to try to get a deal everyone is happy with.

A fine union USDAW. First union I ever joined.
Dave Here are details of the offer.

Originally Posted by tirphil
Year 1
Basic rate increase of 3.7%
Addl payment of 0.8% for introduction of cross cover agreement
Addl payment of 2.5% for committed sundays (No commitment at present)
Sunday booking on payment to be abolished. Sunday pay to be time and a quarter. (At present sunday pay is flat rate plus the booking on payment)

Year 2
4.0% or May 2011 RPI whichever is the greater.

The above has not been voted on by ASLEF members yet. ATW Company council has advised acceptance.

 

[Donny Dave]

Thanks for that, I spotted it just after I posted my reply, but couldn't be bothered to edit my post.

Anyway quick question for you.

Does the additional payment for Sundays plus the time and a quarter outweigh the booking on fee and flat rate for Sundays?

 

[tirphil]

Yes. Once you have done just over four hours on duty then you are earning more.
Shortest sunday diagram is 7 hours 30. So an increase of £15.50 give or take a few pennies for a 7 hours 30 shift from what the payment would be now.

But sundays will be committed. You won't be able to decline working a rostered sunday anymore unless there is alternative cover. That is not the case at present. Nobody is obliged to work a sunday at the moment.

 

[CarterUSM]

Yes. Once you have done just over four hours on duty then you are earning more.
Shortest sunday diagram is 7 hours 30. So an increase of £15.50 give or take a few pennies for a 7 hours 30 shift from what the payment would be now.

But sundays will be committed. You won't be able to decline working a rostered sunday anymore unless there is alternative cover. That is not the case at present. Nobody is obliged to work a sunday at the moment.

Dont you have some commited Sundays anyway?

 

[Geezertronic]

Yet again, a thread about strike action ends up with the same old arguments. @ 313103 and ANorthernGuard, I wouldn't waste my time arguing the point, you and I are paid "too much", do "everything" Bob Crow(e) says, and are"lucky" to have a job.

I think anybody these days is lucky to have a job, it's not just related to the railways that comment.

 

[tirphil]

Dont you have some commited Sundays anyway?

No. Which is unusual. Many TOC's and FOC's have sundays INSIDE the working week. A committed sunday would still be considered outside the working week.

 

[Failed Unit]

Actually didn't know that. So if a guard on a regional train found a defect such as no heating, could they 'fail' the train and not take it into service ?

Yes, certain defects a gaurd can fail a unit and not take it out. Heating however is not one of the reasons as it isnt safety critical just a nice to have as pacer users will tell you.

 

[CosherB]

Bus drivers are in charge of lives as well. Not only their passengers, but other road users, pedestrians etc.

Should they therefore be on £40K pa?

 

[313103]

Bus drivers are in charge of lives as well. Not only their passengers, but other road users, pedestrians etc.

Should they therefore be on £40K pa?

YES! and dont ask me why either, you make your own mind as to the reason why i said yes.

 

[9K43]

ASLEF/Drivers do not give a toss about any member of staff so long as they are ok.
That includes historical memebrs of ASLEF have suffered this "I am all right jack attitude" in times gone by.
This is from 3 decades of working with drivers.

By the way, Arthur Scargill and Bob Crow are 2 of the finest trade unionists this country has ever had.

 

[notadriver]

Bus drivers are in charge of lives as well. Not only their passengers, but other road users, pedestrians etc.

Should they therefore be on £40K pa?

Yes please. I'm a coach driver.

 

[CarterUSM]

No. Which is unusual. Many TOC's and FOC's have sundays INSIDE the working week. A committed sunday would still be considered outside the working week.

Aye, that is what i meant, We have booked sundays as overtime at the moment too.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I think anybody these days is lucky to have a job, it's not just related to the railways that comment.

I know mate, i agree to an extent, but these threads always end up with the exact same differentiation of views, every single one.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

ASLEF/Drivers do not give a toss about any member of staff so long as they are ok.
That includes historical memebrs of ASLEF have suffered this "I am all right jack attitude" in times gone by.
This is from 3 decades of working with drivers.

I tend to agree , nothings changed there! Though i don't worry too much about them anyway, let their members do that.

 

[43067]

Yes please. I'm a coach driver.

I earn £29,632.68 which equates to £81.18 per day, which then equates to £3.38 per hour and i defend the fine people of this country for a living so can i have 40k a year i'd go on stike but thats against military law lol.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

I earn £29,632.68 which equates to £81.18 per day, which then equates to £3.38 per hour and i defend the fine people of this country for a living so can i have 40k a year i'd go on stike but thats against military law lol.

you earn a few grand more than me wityh my overtime, our basic is 22.5k a year

 

[313103]

I earn £29,632.68 which equates to £81.18 per day, which then equates to £3.38 per hour and i defend the fine people of this country for a living so can i have 40k a year i'd go on stike but thats against military law lol.

You earn more then me my salary is £24,888. I also live in London where £25,000 doesnt get you a outhouse toilet to live in.

 

[strange6]

Bob Crow is a philistine and a relic of the past (Note that he has been on a Carribean holiday for the past 2 weeks). He's a selfish, left wing troublemaker.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

You earn more then me my salary is £24,888. I also live in London where £25,000 doesnt get you a outhouse toilet to live in.

Jesus. Is that all you get and you live in London? Full respect, mate!

 

[Geezertronic]

you earn a few grand more than me wityh my overtime, our basic is 22.5k a year

You earn more then me my salary is £24,888. I also live in London where £25,000 doesnt get you a outhouse toilet to live in.

With respect, I'd rather have both your jobs than 43607's job - kudos to the troops, doesn't matter why they are where they are but I wouldn't trade places with them

 

[strange6]

Train driving is a responsible job but I consider bus/coach driving a particularly more responsible job and bus/coach drivers are paid much, much less. Very unfair if you think about it.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Train driving is a responsible job but I consider bus/coach driving a particularly more responsible job and bus/coach drivers are paid much, much less. Very unfair if you think about it.

1st of all, all members of the armed forces have my complete respect, now regarding bus/coach drivers, while yes like train drivers they do a very responsible job how many people can you fit on an avg train compared to a bus/coach (i do feel bus/coach drivers are incredibly underpaid as well mind)

 

[Rhondda Rudie]

1st of all, all members of the armed forces have my complete respect, now regarding bus/coach drivers, while yes like train drivers they do a very responsible job how many people can you fit on an avg train compared to a bus/coach (i do feel bus/coach drivers are incredibly underpaid as well mind)

What he said.

 

[CosherB]

So train drivers should be paid twice as much as bus drivers because they convey more passengers? What kind of specious argument is that? Trains operate in far more controlled environment than buses, so the driver doesn't have to do as much as a bus driver does to avoid an accident.

On that basis the bus driver should get twice as much as the train driver! So why don't they?

 

[Bevan Price]

Oh yes here we go again indeed, more slagging off of unions, more anti union diatribe.

First my dear friend when said alone 12% does sound good and i am sure that if ATW offered its employees a STRAIGHT 12% with no strings attached, it would be accepted out of hand, however as you know and i know with the strings that ATW have foisted onto to this pay deal it is in fact a pay cut.

Again we can quote figures all day to the cows come home, you have stated the CPI figure of 3.7% which is indeed the Governments preferred measure of inflation. Mr Crow has used the RPI which is normally used for pay negotiations this currently stands at 4.8%. Of course the government would want to use the CPI figure because it is lower then the RPI rate.

With regard the unions being stupid with their demands, i think that if you understand how a union works it is the members of the union that demand the union to get them the best and often at times the impossible.

The rejections again are made by members of the union and not by the General Secretarys of such groups, they only act on the decisions made by the members.

I am not anti-union; I was once a minor local representative of a TU. But, you have to learn to be realistic in your aims and targets. Try to be too greedy, and rail workers may find themselves in the same unfortunate state as thousands of council workers - jobless.

I suspect that Cameron's crowd would not be averse to sacrificing several railway lines if they thought it would get them good publicity in the largely Tory press for trying to "crush" unions. (And remember, this is a Government willing to potentially weaken our defence by destroying expensive Nimrod aircraft, and prematurely scrapping aircraft carriers...)

 

[strange6]

1st of all, all members of the armed forces have my complete respect, now regarding bus/coach drivers, while yes like train drivers they do a very responsible job how many people can you fit on an avg train compared to a bus/coach (i do feel bus/coach drivers are incredibly underpaid as well mind)

yes, but coaches and buses don't have AWS and ATP and god knows what else that stops the train on detecting a driver error. One wrong move by a coach driver on a motorway and it's fatality time (Plus trains don't have steering wheels) Don't get me wrong, I respect all train drivers, but i feel the coach and bus driver are more skilled in what they do

 

[Legzr1]

So train drivers should be paid twice as much as bus drivers because they convey more passengers? What kind of specious argument is that? Trains operate in far more controlled environment than buses, so the driver doesn't have to do as much as a bus driver does to avoid an accident.

On that basis the bus driver should get twice as much as the train driver! So why don't they?

It's been a while since I've seen a bus carrying 540 passengers doing 125mph down the A1 in thick fog.

It's been a while since I've seen an unqualified soon-to-be bus driver having to undergo 9 months of training + 150 hours of monitored driving at a cost of £135,000.

Bar those two points your argument stands up well to scrutiny.


Are you really stupid or is it an elaborate act? :roll:

 

[ANorthernGuard]

It's been a while since I've seen a bus carrying 540 passengers doing 125mph down the A1 in thick fog.

It's been a while since I've seen an unqualified soon-to-be bus driver having to undergo 9 months of training + 150 hours of monitored driving at a cost of £135,000.

Bar those two points your argument stands up well to scrutiny.


Are you really stupid or is it an elaborate act? :roll:

nice comeback...impressive lol
us lowly guards only get 4 months training and are not classed as competent for 2 years but our jobs are so easy anyone can do it (thats what a few people seem to think) lol

 

[strange6]

It's been a while since I've seen a bus carrying 540 passengers doing 125mph down the A1 in thick fog.

It's been a while since I've seen an unqualified soon-to-be bus driver having to undergo 9 months of training + 150 hours of monitored driving at a cost of £135,000.

Bar those two points your argument stands up well to scrutiny.


Are you really stupid or is it an elaborate act? :roll:

LOL What has thick fog got to do with it? The thing is on rails, supervised by signalmen and controlled by onboard computer systems as well as the signalling systems. A coach driver driving through thick fog has only his eyes and reactions to use. No contest mate if you're talking about risk, skill and safety. I know where i would want to be in those circumstances and that would be on a train ! lol