Arsenal vs Liverpool potentially to be moved to Christmas Eve (Update: plans now abandoned)

[DarloRich]

Yep, it's got nowt to do with the FA and everything to do with the Premier League.

(Yes the FA is nominally involved in the Premier League, but in reality has little influence and certainly no involvement in day-to-day issues such as fixture dates.)

you knew what i meant...............

Although many would say the Premier League control the FA.

 

[gg1]

God knows how we used to cope with back to back games on Christmas Day and Boxing Day in the past...

My dad often reminisces about christmas football in the 40s and 50s. At that time most football fans lived within a few miles of the team they supported and would walk to the match, also very few went to away games unless it was a local derby. On Saturdays when their team was playing away, it was actually pretty common for fans to instead go to a home game of their local rivals.

 

[BestWestern]

As someone who has no interest in football whatsoever, I would offer the cold outsider's view that this is the sad result of what was once a sport turning into a greedy, capitalist industry. I understand there is a general opinion that people attending football matches are a complete irrelevance to the media barons who control the game, the only thing of any importance being subscriptions to sport channels from those who watch at home. Perhaps the powers-that-be think they'll make more profit by forcing people to stay at home and sign up to view from their front rooms, by making matches unreachable.

 

[Statto]

My dad often reminisces about christmas football in the 40s and 50s. At that time most football fans lived within a few miles of the team they supported and would walk to the match, also very few went to away games unless it was a local derby. On Saturdays when their team was playing away, it was actually pretty common for fans to instead go to a home game of their local rivals.

In those days apart from the FA Cup Final, you actually had to go to the match to watch any club football, Match Of The Day any other highlights show.

 

[notlob.divad]

My dad often reminisces about christmas football in the 40s and 50s. At that time most football fans lived within a few miles of the team they supported and would walk to the match, also very few went to away games unless it was a local derby. On Saturdays when their team was playing away, it was actually pretty common for fans to instead go to a home game of their local rivals.

Also, Christmas/Boxing Day was the traditional day for for the local derby, to reduce travel over the holiday period. Return fixtures where often Easter Weekend. However TV, got involved and wanted to spread the derbys around the calander to be able to show them all meaning that much greater distances have to be travelled at Holiday times. Stupidity of the highest order.

 

[marks87]

This isn't Sky's fault. The way the packages are structured it means they need to select games from certain packages for certain timeslots. They can't just choose to show any game from any package at any time, because of quotas.

The Premier League should have had the foresight to account for Christmas Eve being a Sunday and adjusted the relevant packages accordingly.

In the end, I can see this game taking place on the Sunday, but at 2.15pm (with an early game kicking-off at noon vice 1.30pm).

 

[DarloRich]

As someone who has no interest in football whatsoever, I would offer the cold outsider's view that this is the sad result of what was once a sport turning into a greedy, capitalist industry. I understand there is a general opinion that people attending football matches are a complete irrelevance to the media barons who control the game, the only thing of any importance being subscriptions to sport channels from those who watch at home. Perhaps the powers-that-be think they'll make more profit by forcing people to stay at home and sign up to view from their front rooms, by making matches unreachable.

Almost - they like full stadiums as it makes for a better product to sell. They need the atmosphere, noise and colour. other than that we don't matter. Presenting a game from the Emirates with 2000 people there would look awful.

(Ib would add professional football at a high level is like that - lower down the leagues things are better)

 

[Mag_seven]

commuters and leisure travellers are squeezed into the same times by early finishes to services

Not this year - Its a Sunday!

 

[Confused147]

If your stupid enough to travel 200 miles away just to watch a football match on Christmas eve then you deserve to be stranded until the next service home. I don't see why Virgin or London Midland should have to work extra trains on Christmas just to accommodate the average desperate football fan. Last trains from London Euston to North on Xmas Eve are around 18:30 anyway.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

As someone who has no interest in football whatsoever, I would offer the cold outsider's view that this is the sad result of what was once a sport turning into a greedy, capitalist industry. I understand there is a general opinion that people attending football matches are a complete irrelevance to the media barons who control the game, the only thing of any importance being subscriptions to sport channels from those who watch at home. Perhaps the powers-that-be think they'll make more profit by forcing people to stay at home and sign up to view from their front rooms, by making matches unreachable.

There are plenty of football fans who agree with you- even me, and my team is finally getting to sit at the big table for a little while! I don't really advocate violence but Rupert Murdoch's head on a spike would not be as unwelcome a sight as one might think! (and for reasons besides football, I hasten to add).

Sky and the FA have form over fixture movements like this in the past.


So I fully expect this to go ahead.

Yep. FA Cup final being at tea-time being the obvious example: every year there are moans about it yet nothing changes... perhaps because people wrongly moan at the railway for making sure their train doesn't crash, instead of moaning at the Football Association for disregarding the needs of supporters.

 

[AlterEgo]

If your stupid enough to travel 200 miles away just to watch a football match on Christmas eve then you deserve to be stranded until the next service home. I don't see why Virgin or London Midland should have to work extra trains on Christmas just to accommodate the average desperate football fan. Last trains from London Euston to North on Xmas Eve are around 18:30 anyway.

The last train is at 21:21.

Nobody is suggesting that anyone would be stranded. The clubs are not asking for extra trains.

What everyone would like is some sense around the fixtures - indeed, why would you want to travel 200 miles on Xmas Eve, that late, and not getting back until the wee hours of Xmas Day?

 

[Darandio]

The last train is at 21:21.

Is it though? From earlier posts in the thread it suggests the times aren't out yet as it's just showing a normal Sunday service and a normal Monday service for Christmas Day.

I don't see why Virgin or London Midland should have to work extra trains on Christmas just to accommodate the average desperate football fan.

Get down from there, take a deep breath and see what the issue actually is for Liverpool. Then come back and try again.

 

[CentralTrainer]

The last train is at 21:21.

Nobody is suggesting that anyone would be stranded. The clubs are not asking for extra trains.

What everyone would like is some sense around the fixtures - indeed, why would you want to travel 200 miles on Xmas Eve, that late, and not getting back until the wee hours of Xmas Day?

If they don't want to travel - then they can simply watch it on TV live then...

 

[Mag_seven]

If they don't want to travel - then they can simply watch it on TV live then...

There could lie a conspiracy theory!

 

[Confused147]

The last train is at 21:21.

Nobody is suggesting that anyone would be stranded. The clubs are not asking for extra trains.

What everyone would like is some sense around the fixtures - indeed, why would you want to travel 200 miles on Xmas Eve, that late, and not getting back until the wee hours of Xmas Day?

Are you sure last train is 21:21? Are trains not finishing earlier on Xmas eve this year?

 

[AlterEgo]

Are you sure last train is 21:21? Are trains not finishing earlier on Xmas eve this year?

Just quoting from the story:

The last train from London Euston to Liverpool leaves at 9.21pm that day and will only arrive at Lime Street in the early hours of Christmas Day.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y80349/2017/12/24/advanced

(Yes, it may be wrong, but still)

 

[pemma]

Just quoting from the story:

The last train from London Euston to Liverpool leaves at 9.21pm that day and will only arrive at Lime Street in the early hours of Christmas Day.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y80349/2017/12/24/advanced

I don't think you can trust RTT for the Christmas period times when they are showing all these services operating in and out of Lime Street on Christmas Day: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/LIV/2017/12/25/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

 

[Mag_seven]

Probably the last trains north have not been decided yet - I wouldn't bet on the 21.21 running though!

I don't think you can trust RTT for the Christmas period times when they are showing all these services operating in and out of Lime Street on Christmas Day:

Exactly - the last trains have not been decided yet let alone adjusted in the TT systems.

 

[Bantamzen]

If your stupid enough to travel 200 miles away just to watch a football match on Christmas eve then you deserve to be stranded until the next service home. I don't see why Virgin or London Midland should have to work extra trains on Christmas just to accommodate the average desperate football fan. Last trains from London Euston to North on Xmas Eve are around 18:30 anyway.

And no football fans are asking for staff to work late into Christmas Eve, the game is being scheduled by Sky & the Premier League. The whole point of this story is that the travelling club, in this case Liverpool are asking for an earlier kick-off so that fans "stupid" enough to travel can get home on scheduled trains.

Just as an aside, I really don't understand why some people feel the need to vent their feelings about football and/or it's fans. The vast majority of people traveling to games are decent people, just wanting some entertainment. I get that some people don't like football, each to their own, but is there really any need for getting all shirty about people looking to have a bit of entertainment?

</mini-rantathon off>

There are plenty of football fans who agree with you- even me, and my team is finally getting to sit at the big table for a little while!

There are some of us not too far up the A641 that are quietly hoping that this is not for too long, especially if we keep putting up a challenge for the Championship (although I've probably jinxed that now!)

 

[Tom Quinne]

Isn't Xmas eve on a Sunday this year ?

Bounces or no trains TOCs...

 

[61653 HTAFC]

There are some of us not too far up the A641 that are quietly hoping that this is not for too long, especially if we keep putting up a challenge for the Championship (although I've probably jinxed that now!)

Apologies for the off-topic, but last season I had an accumulator bet for the whole season predicting a promoted side for each division from tiers 2-5; a top 4 finisher in the top flight; and the FA Cup winners... The two I didn't get right were Bradford City (unlucky to lose a play-off final) and Tranmere Rovers (likewise). I haven't learned clearly, as I've backed both again!

I'd much rather stay up and wait another year so we can resume our rivalry in the top-flight!

 

[roversfan2001]

If your stupid enough to travel 200 miles away just to watch a football match on Christmas eve then you deserve to be stranded until the next service home. I don't see why Virgin or London Midland should have to work extra trains on Christmas just to accommodate the average desperate football fan. Last trains from London Euston to North on Xmas Eve are around 18:30 anyway.

Yes, wouldn't want those delinquent football fans ruining the trains before Christmas with their chanting and drinking. :roll:


Get off that high horse.

 

[The Planner]

Anything late will be going via the West Mids, pretty sure the Trent Valley is blocked early on Xmas Eve.

 

[robertclark125]

Merseyrail shuts down about 8PM on Christmas Eve and there are no services on Christmas Day

And there's a chance that there won't be local bus services running by the time the last train(s) reach Liverpool, Warrington. That means no chance of connections to get home.

 

[greyman42]

^ But would any drivers want to volunteer to take a Pendolino back to where it needs to be in the early hours of the 25th?

I dare say they would for enhanced pay.

 

[b2311e]

And there's a chance that there won't be local bus services running by the time the last train(s) reach Liverpool, Warrington. That means no chance of connections to get home.

The buses do start to wind down early, usually about 6

 

[Chester1]

Something that nobody has mentioned is the absurdly high demand for Liverpool tickets. Its extremely difficult for a Liverpool fans to legitimately obtain tickets for Premier League Home matches. To put into context Anfield has a capacity of 54,000 and has 32,000 season ticket holders. There are 23,000 people on the waiting list which closed in 2011 and the people at the top of it signed up in 1999... The Premier League away ticket allocation for any stadium larger than 30,000 seats is 3000 (and 10% for stadiums below 30,000 seats). Liverpools 3000 tickets could be sold several times over to fans even if there were no trains or coaches opperating. I don't see the problem, to obtain a Liverpool away ticket legitimately you have to be a season ticket holder, there are very rarely any away tickets available after season ticket holders have had the option to buy. If the ussual away supporters can't go then they can miss a match and give other fans who can get back home on Christmas eve a rare oppertunity to go to an away match. Yes I am a Liverpool fan....

 

[greyman42]

If the Merseyside based fans are inconvenienced by the kick off time they can watch it on Sky and any spare tickets can easily be sold to the London based Liverpool fans who will not have the same travel problems.

 

[Joe Paxton]

Something that nobody has mentioned is the absurdly high demand for Liverpool tickets. Its extremely difficult for a Liverpool fans to legitimately obtain tickets for Premier League Home matches. To put into context Anfield has a capacity of 54,000 and has 32,000 season ticket holders. There are 23,000 people on the waiting list which closed in 2011 and the people at the top of it signed up in 1999... The Premier League away ticket allocation for any stadium larger than 30,000 seats is 3000 (and 10% for stadiums below 30,000 seats). Liverpools 3000 tickets could be sold several times over to fans even if there were no trains or coaches opperating. I don't see the problem, to obtain a Liverpool away ticket legitimately you have to be a season ticket holder, there are very rarely any away tickets available after season ticket holders have had the option to buy. If the ussual away supporters can't go then they can miss a match and give other fans who can get back home on Christmas eve a rare oppertunity to go to an away match. Yes I am a Liverpool fan....

Thanks for the alternative take on matters.

 

[Antman]

If this goes ahead, it is a monumentally stupid decision. Everyone who's travelled by rail on Christmas Eve knows how busy and difficult it can be. People travel with more luggage than usual, commuters and leisure travellers are squeezed into the same times by early finishes to services, and of course everyone is desperate to get where they're going.

Surely common sense has to prevail!?!?

I'm not unsympathetic but this is the world we live in and clubs are happy to reap the financial rewards from sky tv.

There could also be questions asked about why the rail network needs to close early on Christmas eve?