Ashford 'Little&Often' minibuses to cease in June

[Typhoon]

So, the new timetables for the various changes across East Kent can now be seen on Traveline South East. Of course, the new times are alongside the old times which makes it very difficult to read.

In Folkestone, routes 72, 77/78, 127 and 160 will be withdrawn. Routes 71 and 91 will replace parts of the East Cliff sections of the 72. The 91 will also replace most parts of the 127. So, if you want a sightseeing tour of the estates of both Folkestone and Dover, route 91 is for you (perhaps it will be branded as part of Stagecoach's new megasightseeing brand!!). Route 10 to Ashford will divert via the Golden Valley and Horn Street to replace the 77/78 and 160. Gold 16 will be reduced to every 20 minutes, and extended hourly in Hythe to serve Grebe Crescent (replacing the 160). The other 2 buses an hour will extend to Martello Lakes, where there is a new housing estate.

73 extended to Cheriton (replacing 72), every 20 minutes (compensate for reduction in 16)

 

[higthomas]

Gosh, those are steep cuts.

 

[Typhoon]

Until the homes are actually built it's hard to tell if the call has been responded to or not. Certainly until somebody actually lives there Stagecoach arnt going to provide buses without the councilors actually want to allocate some money to them!

I do think that Stagecoach are taking a hard line with inter-urban and rural* services, lacking the consultation that was present in the Dover review of services. I believe these changes will inevitably lead to reductions in bus use (two-hourly services are perhaps acceptable for the casual user or those like shoppers who can vary their departure times but not usually for those who work) and, as a bus user, I regret that. I'm also disappointed as Stagecoach in east Kent had maintained a decent, perhaps generous, network.

The Ashford network is a different matter. Development is on-going but there has been precious little extension of the bus network to cater for this. Route B has been extended by one stop in the last year. There may be other changes but nothing more than slight revisions. I have looked at one such development; houses are being resold, listed as four years old so not a new build and is pushed as being in commutable distance of Ashford International Station. Traveline advises me that to get there by bus I need to walk along a road that appears to have a cycleway (presumably pedestrians can walk along it), cross a dual carriage way, through a retail park and twenty minutes later I'm at the stop of an endangered, and not particularly frequent, bus service. I would suggest that the number that do this can be counted on the fingers of one foot! When the estate was planned, it was suggested that a bus service was introduced. There are many comments to that effect but I include one from the Environment Agency - "Experience has shown that effective public transport services need to be provided as early as possible in the development process. If the service is provided late the new residents will have got into the habit (through necessity) of using their private cars. It is then much harder to get them to switch to using public transport. If, however, the service is running when they arrive they are likely to use it from the outset and may not even bother to buy a car. It is recognised that the public transport system will have to be heavily subsidised until such time as there is a critical mass of users. This should be planned for in the financial model."

The not buying a car may be wishful thinking but this otherwise appears to be sound. I don't think providing a cycleway along part of the route is a substitute. You are absolutely right in suggesting that a bus company (and it doesn't need to be Stagecoach) is not going to provide a service unless they are incentivised to do so. Councillors don't even need to be their hands into their pockets - it can be added as a condition into the planning process, subsidise the service until the development is complete, for instance. Councillors calling for something to happen does not make it happen, they need to act!

* by 'rural' I mean real rural ie to traditional villages, not 'developments' which are called villages because it sounds good.

 

[smtglasgow]

Commuters needing to get to their nearest rail station are possibly one of the few potential growth areas for operators and it is so disappointing to see the business being spurned. Presumably too difficult to resource or fit into existing all day operations. With evening services skeletal at best, a commuter arriving at their home station at say 7 or later is going to be wary about relying on public transport, so gets in the habit of driving to the station.

 

[alex397]

The not buying a car may be wishful thinking but this otherwise appears to be sound. I don't think providing a cycleway along part of the route is a substitute. You are absolutely right in suggesting that a bus company (and it doesn't need to be Stagecoach) is not going to provide a service unless they are incentivised to do so. Councillors don't even need to be their hands into their pockets - it can be added as a condition into the planning process, subsidise the service until the development is complete, for instance. Councillors calling for something to happen does not make it happen, they need to act!

Politicians and Councillors could be doing a lot more themselves, rather than just putting the blame all on private bus operators. Stagecoach should not be expected to start running to a new housing estate where hardly anyone lives yet, without financial support. Councillors could easily help with this (e.g. conditions in planning processes), but unsurprisingly they are all talk and not much else. And yet, many people want to give MORE powers to politicians/councillors with buses, even though they don't do enough with their already existing powers. Barmy!
In Stagecoach's defence, they were eager to extend the B to the Bridgefield development as soon as possible, but the developer took forever to complete the bus-only bridge over the railway. The bridge was actually completed ages ago, but the final touches took forever.

Commuters needing to get to their nearest rail station are possibly one of the few potential growth areas for operators and it is so disappointing to see the business being spurned. Presumably too difficult to resource or fit into existing all day operations. With evening services skeletal at best, a commuter arriving at their home station at say 7 or later is going to be wary about relying on public transport, so gets in the habit of driving to the station.

Totally agree. There is a lot of potential there. The 2 is an example, as many commuter types live in that area.
In fact, on the hourly Arriva 12 from Tenterden, there are extra peak journeys connecting to Headcorn station. I can imagine many more Tenterden people probably travel from Ashford instead now, and yet the service will now be much reduced, and even worse from the villages which are even closer to Ashford.

Ashford has so much potential to have a leading bus network, connecting up to the hugely popular HS1. Ashford is apparently the fastest growing town in the UK (at least it was a few years ago), but the bus network has been incredibly slow to catch up. Ashford is quite unique, so it could have been a good place for the government to pump money in for innovative transport schemes as a 'showcase' for the rest of the UK. Never mind! At least Stagecoach have given a good go with the Little&Often, and the B/C have been quite successful. But thats just 2 routes out of many.

I do wonder how different the transport network in an equivalent town in a continental country such as the Netherlands or Germany would look like......

 

[Typhoon]

http://www.route-one.net/articles/O...__Little___often__network_to_drop_Sprinters/c

I know it is only a report but, if true, the 'new' buses are possibly best described as 'preloved'.

 

[overthewater]

I would be surprised if there come from Kings lynn. Better Q, where is the little and often fleet getting transferred to?

 

[alex397]

http://www.route-one.net/articles/O...__Little___often__network_to_drop_Sprinters/c

I know it is only a report but, if true, the 'new' buses are possibly best described as 'preloved'.

Stagecoach’s ‘Little & Often’
network to drop Sprinters
Stagecoach’s pioneering ‘Little & Often’ network in Ashford, launched last February with 30 Mercedes-Benz Sprinter City 45s, is to be revised and see Optare Solos replace them.

The Sprinters, supplied by EvoBus (UK), are owned by Stagecoach and maintained under contract. They will be distributed around other non-South East group companies on yet-to-be determined low-usage routes.

Speaking to routeone, Stagecoach England and Wales Regional Director Michael Watson says: “The project was really useful to stimulate demand, and now we need to go to the next level.”

The changes, from 3 June, will see the ‘Little & Often’ brand applied to 17 Solos, obtained from within South East’s existing allocation as a result of other network changes.

Ashford is served by four ‘Little & Often’ routes (B, C, E and G). All the routes connect suburbs with the town centre.

In future, routes A, B, and C will be Solo operated, while E and G become part of other standard bus routes. Route A is currently operated by Darts. Route B drops back from every 10 minutes to every 12 minutes.

Since the introduction of ‘Little & Often’, Stagecoach has seen 35% more passenger journeys. Of the new passengers, 60% previously travelled by car,.

Despite this success, a Stagecoach survey found that 45% of customers said they were not satisfied with the legroom and seat comfort, leading to the removal of the Sprinters.

The article states that Solos will be 'obtained from within South East's existing allocation as a result of of other network changes' (changes translates as cuts, btw). If this is the case, the vehicles used will all be over 10 years old. Age isn't necessarily an issue, but its difficult to make that seem like a positive change. Its good to hear they will be branded for 'Little and Often', but I wonder if this will be a full livery like the current Sprinters, or a few vinyls stuck on.

If the 'Little & Often' project was such a success, then why are the Sprinters being taken completely out of the South East fleet, and then on to other Stagecoach operator's low-usage routes? If they were successful, i'd imagine they would put them into other towns to increase passenger levels there. But, to be fair, there are not really any other towns in the Stagecoach South East area which are like Ashford. They could also have been used to serve some poorly served areas of Ashford or some of the new developments (but this would need developer/council funding).

I had the afternoon off work today, and I was in Ashford anyway, so I had a ride on one of the Sprinters. If you get one of the 3 front seats, you get comfortable seats with good legroom. The seats further back do not have good legroom, but its still reasonably comfortable, for what would be a fairly short journey. The ride quality is good, and you don't get the window-shaking or rattles which are found on Darts/'classic' Enviro200s or the elderly Solos which will be replacing the Sprinters. Of course, it helps my journey was lightly loaded - I have not been on a packed journey. To me, they seem like decent vehicles. Just seems a bit strange that they are all being taken completely out of the South East fleet.

I would be surprised if there come from Kings lynn. Better Q, where is the little and often fleet getting transferred to?

In the linked article, it says they will be distributed to other Stagecoach fleets on low-usage routes.

 

[Class 466]

Stagecoach have released more information. Definitely some service cuts on some routes. https://www.stagecoachbus.com/promos-and-offers/south-east/little-and-often

 

[alex397]

Stagecoach have released more information. Definitely some service cuts on some routes. https://www.stagecoachbus.com/promos-and-offers/south-east/little-and-often

Also, judging by the Solo graphic, it looks like Little&Often branding will be minimal, rather than a completely different livery as currently on the Sprinters.

 

[E-Rail]

Stagecoach East Kent is in financial trouble and the numbers aren't adding up.The MD was 'asked' to clear his desk in March and the company is being baby sat by the England and Wales MD of UK Bus. There are further cuts coming in September, this time across Thanet and Herne Bay and further changes and cuts in Dover and Deal. It really has been a text book example of how bad management can drive a once successful company into the ground.

 

[alex397]

Stagecoach East Kent is in financial trouble and the numbers aren't adding up.The MD was 'asked' to clear his desk in March and the company is being baby sat by the England and Wales MD of UK Bus. There are further cuts coming in September, this time across Thanet and Herne Bay and further changes and cuts in Dover and Deal. It really has been a text book example of how bad management can drive a once successful company into the ground.

Thats worrying if more cuts are due for Herne Bay (presumably meaning potentially the Canterbury area as well, as that is run from HB) and Thanet. In Thanet, there have only just been changes to the 'Breeze' 8 and local routes 33/34 at the beginning of the year.

Can I ask where you got this information? Certainly doesn't sound like its meant to be public knowledge!

 

[E-Rail]

Thats worrying if more cuts are due for Herne Bay (presumably meaning potentially the Canterbury area as well, as that is run from HB) and Thanet. In Thanet, there have only just been changes to the 'Breeze' 8 and local routes 33/34 at the beginning of the year.

Can I ask where you got this information? Certainly doesn't sound like its meant to be public knowledge!

Obviously not but what I am led to understand is that all of the former Eastonways routes in Thanet will be withdrawn in September effectively ending all rural services to the villages. In CB/HB, the relaunched Triangle is seeing passenger numbers declining and a return to the 4/6 group is on the cards.

Although East Kent is in a dire state at the moment, the cynic in me believes certain changes are being made in anticipation of Stagecoach being awarded the South Eastern rail franchise in November. If you look at Broadstairs to Canterbury, Ashford to Canterbury and Folkestone to Ashford, all of those routes are highly lucrative South Eastern corridors and should Stagecoach win that franchise, then the CMA will almost certainly stipulate that service levels remain the same on those bus routes. Therefore, it's a safer bet to axe them or make them as difficult and unappealing to use as possible now. Much better for the group to have those passengers using Southeastern than megarider weeklys on the buses.

 

[Lynford1976]

The possible changes to the ex-Eastonways services were announced some time ago, following consultation with Kent County Council who subsidise them. Parts of the existing commercial network will be rerouted as partial replacements...

https://kccmediahub.net/kcc-drastically-reduces-bus-savings745

 

[Cesarcollie]

Stagecoach East Kent is in financial trouble and the numbers aren't adding up.The MD was 'asked' to clear his desk in March and the company is being baby sat by the England and Wales MD of UK Bus. There are further cuts coming in September, this time across Thanet and Herne Bay and further changes and cuts in Dover and Deal. It really has been a text book example of how bad management can drive a once successful company into the ground.

Unless you have concrete evidence to support your comments about the MD, this is not a sensible statement to make on a public forum. The MD had a long career within Stagecoach including some time at East Kent. There is no doubt that most of the bus industry is suffering at the moment, for a whole variety of reasons outside its control, and there's no reason to suspect East Kent is any different. Service cuts are happening in most places.

 

[fergusjbend]

Unless you have concrete evidence to support your comments about the MD, this is not a sensible statement to make on a public forum. The MD had a long career within Stagecoach including some time at East Kent. There is no doubt that most of the bus industry is suffering at the moment, for a whole variety of reasons outside its control, and there's no reason to suspect East Kent is any different. Service cuts are happening in most places.

Are you saying that the statement is not sensible (in the sense of being inaccurate), or that it should not be made public, or both? I know nothing about this topic but I appreciate the information posted on this forum and find it refreshing to read contributions from well-informed sources, and I can see no reason why it should not be made public.

 

[alex397]

Obviously not but what I am led to understand is that all of the former Eastonways routes in Thanet will be withdrawn in September effectively ending all rural services to the villages. In CB/HB, the relaunched Triangle is seeing passenger numbers declining and a return to the 4/6 group is on the cards.

Although East Kent is in a dire state at the moment, the cynic in me believes certain changes are being made in anticipation of Stagecoach being awarded the South Eastern rail franchise in November. If you look at Broadstairs to Canterbury, Ashford to Canterbury and Folkestone to Ashford, all of those routes are highly lucrative South Eastern corridors and should Stagecoach win that franchise, then the CMA will almost certainly stipulate that service levels remain the same on those bus routes. Therefore, it's a safer bet to axe them or make them as difficult and unappealing to use as possible now. Much better for the group to have those passengers using Southeastern than megarider weeklys on the buses.

As posted by Lynford1976, the changes to ex-Eastonways routes have been on the cards for a while, and there would not be many villages affected by it. The 39 and 56 remain in urban Thanet, and most areas are served by nearby Stagecoach routes. The 42 does go out to Minster and Monkton, but this is also served by the (admittedly infrequent) route 11. The 38 doesn't seem to be affected by the proposals

That does seem a cynical view, but it is possible. However, I can't imagine Stagecoach would want to damage their East Kent subsidiary. and therefore encourage other operators to take some of their slice of their near-monopoly of bus services in East Kent. It was, I believe, one of Stagecoach's best performing areas a few years ago, and I doubt they would want to damage this further.

Are you saying that the statement is not sensible (in the sense of being inaccurate), or that it should not be made public, or both? I know nothing about this topic but I appreciate the information posted on this forum and find it refreshing to read contributions from well-informed sources, and I can see no reason why it should not be made public.

I do partly agree, but it would be good to know what those well-informed sources actually are, as for all we know it could be false or exaggerated.

 

[E-Rail]

Unless you have concrete evidence to support your comments about the MD, this is not a sensible statement to make on a public forum. The MD had a long career within Stagecoach including some time at East Kent. There is no doubt that most of the bus industry is suffering at the moment, for a whole variety of reasons outside its control, and there's no reason to suspect East Kent is any different. Service cuts are happening in most places.

I used it as a figure of speech. Asked to leave, asked to clear your desk, asked to stand down, stepping aside all mean the same when it comes to the swift removal of members of senior staff. Service longevity counts for nothing with major companies when it comes to the crunch. I have seen many directors at Stagecoach removed within the hour, trust me, there is no room for sentiment.

Re Thanet, the plan for September as I understand it is that 38 will be operated commercially with revisions, the 39, 42 and 56 will all be withdrawn. For my own money, I would expect the 9 and 11 to also be axed. The scene was set for the end of the 9 with the introduction of the 43 between Canterbury - Sandwich and Thanet last year and the 11 has been a waste of resources (outside of school jnys) since it started. Like many of the additional routes and increased frequencies that East Kent put on over the last ten years, I suspect these were only ever operated to take advantage of the ENCTS Additional Capacity payments which top up the calculated reimbursement nicely. In Kent's case, I am fairly sure it adds around an extra 28p to each ENCTS journey reimbursed. I could be wrong but I believe this payment is being axed.

The route changes in Folkestone are also designed to maximise ENCTS reimbursement. Interurban routes receive a higher level of reimbursement than urban routes and the average fare is naturally also higher so the system works in the operator's favour to include as much local mileage in interurban routes as possible as for eg, 39% of an average fare of £5.80 is a lot more than 26% of an average fare of £2.00. So in Folkestone's case, by the 10 absorbing the previous routes of 77, 160 etc the reimbursement received for an ENCTS passholder going from Golden Valley to the Bus Station will be higher if they travel on a service between Ashford and Folkestone than had it been the 77/78. The same reason is likely behind the 91 absorbing the 72 and 127 around Folkestone.

There is a lot more to the commercial decisions taken by operators than journey numbers and patterns. In almost every case these days, all changes are designed to maximise reimbursement for ENCTS.

 

[overthewater]

it seem three are heading to Fife.

 

[backontrack]

The Wave 100/101/102 (Dover-Hastings) looks like it will be reduced to every 20 minutes, and through journeys all the way to Hastings will now be just hourly.

3bph Dover-Folkestone-New Romney-Greatstone
1bph continues to Lydd-on-Sea, Lydd, Camber and Rye.

No more direct fast services to Lydd; all go via the coast now.

1bph Rye-Winchelsea Beach-Fairlight-Hastings, 1bph Rye-Winchelsea-Icklesham-Hastings

 

[robertclark125]

The three heading for Fife are to be used from St. Andrews, on route 94. They will be an interesting comparison to the new Mercedes minibuses bought by Moffat and Williamson.

 

[backontrack]

Here are the drastic changes in full:

Little and Often A will be split into two, with A - now a Little and Often service - serving South Ashford and Singleton every 10 minutes.
D will run every 15 minutes, serving Designer Outlet and Stanhope.
AD will run in the evenings, serving South Ashford, Singleton, Stanhope and Designer Outlet.
Little and Often A, B, C and G: Sprinter minibuses will no longer be used on this route. They will be replaced by Optare Solo buses.
Little and Often E will no longer run.
Little and Often G will be extended through to Orbital Park and South Willesbrough, replacing E.

1 will serve Little Burton, replacing Little and Often E. 1 buses via Little Burton will continue through to Wye.
1A will continue to run from Canterbury to Chartham and Shalmsford Street.
1/1X will provide a service every two hours between Canterbury and Ashford.

2 (Ashford-High Halden-Tenterden-occasionally Rolvenden) will run every two hours rather than hourly.
2A (Ashford-Shadoxhurst-Tenterden) will run every two hours rather than hourly.
This combines to give an hourly frequency between Ashford and Tenterden.
No more route 2 buses will run through to/from Canterbury on route 1/1X.

10 will no longer continue to/start from Maidstone as the 10X: the latter will become a separate route, and a change will be required at Ashford for those travelling to places on the other side of Ashford.
10 replaces the 77/78 and the 160 between Hythe and Folkestone, diverting away from Sandgate to serve Shorncliffe, Golden Valley and Cheriton Tesco (where it will terminate) at a frequency of every 30 minutes. Every hour, the 10 will continue through from Cheriton to Ashford via Horn Street, Seabrook, Hythe and Port Lympne. The 10 will now serve Port Lympne on Sundays.
10A will only run at peak times, via Sandgate. This means that the 18 will be the only regular bus through Sandling and Saltwood, and the 102 will be the only regular service through Sandgate.

11/11A/11B (Romney Marsh) will no longer run to William Harvey Hospital or Orbital Park.

Gold 16 no longer serves Hawkinge (Tesco), Hawkinge (Primary School), or Saltwood (Brockhill Road). All 16 buses through Hawkinge will be routed via Aerodrome Road, Haven Drive, Heron Forstal Avenue and Uphill. 16 buses now continue to Palmarsh (Martello Lakes). One bus per hour continues from there to Palmarsh (Grebe Crescent), replacing the 160 west of Hythe.

17 will run every 90 minutes on Sundays, rather than every two hours.

71 (Creteway Down) will now serve Stanbury Crescent and Hollands Avenue, replacing the 72. It will run every 20 minutes.
72 will no longer run.
73 will run every 20 minutes (every 30 on Sundays), and will serve Hawkinge Tesco as well as Millfield and the Battle of Britain Museum. It will run in Cheriton via Church Road, Cheriton Tesco, Weymouth Road, Shaftesbury Avenue and Ashley Avenue, replacing the 72.
77 and 78 will no longer run.

80 (via Worth) will no longer serve St Margaret's Bay or Sholden Village on Dover-Sandwich services. An extra hourly 80 service will run from Deal to Sholden Village and back.
81 (via Eastry) will now serve St Margaret's Bay.

89/89A becomes three routes, the 89, and the 92/92A. The 89 will run between Canterbury and Aylesham via Bridge. The 92 will run in a circuit - Dover > Crabble > River > Temple Ewell > Lydden > Shepherdswell > Coldred > Elvington > Eythorne > Whitfield > Temple Ewell > River > Crabble > Dover. The 92A will run in the other direction.
89B will no longer run south of Aylesham.

90 will now serve Whitfield Tesco.

91 will run between Broadmead Village and Folkestone via Coniston Road every 30 minutes - one of these services will run from Dover via Kearsney Abbey and Alkham Valley. The through service to Dover will be diverted to serve Wear Bay Crescent, Foreland Avenue, Warren Road, Canterbury Road, Downs Road, Dolphins Road and Holywell Avenue between Dover and Drellingore, replacing the 72.

Wave 100 (via Winchelsea) will no longer run between Rye and Lydd.
Wave 101 (via Fairlight) will no longer run between Rye, Lydd and Dover.
Wave 102 will run 3ph between Dover and Greatstone-on-Sea. One of those buses will continue via Lydd-on-Sea, Lydd and Camber to Rye, meeting a connecting Wave 100 service.

121 will no longer run, as a parallel 1 service will replace it. This service will not serve Shottenden or Molash.

127 will no longer run.
160 will no longer run.

517 will no longer run in the morning. It will be replaced jointly by a service on route 2A via Park Farm and by the 518.
519 will no longer serve Park Farm, starting at Stanhope. Little & Often B provides an alternative service from Park Farm to Towers School.

666 (Faversham-Ashford) will be diverted via Eureka Park and Repton Park, replacing Little and Often E. This part of the route will run hourly on Sundays.

There are also some changes to school routes around Dover and Folkestone.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The only places that do well from those changes are Badlesmere, Broadmead, Challock, Greatstone, Horn Street, Leaveland, Littlestone, Palmarsh and Sheldwich.

 

[overthewater]

There already a thread for that https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...ges-and-cuts-ashford-folkestone-dover.164043/

The three for Fife have left today and will be in Scotland by Tomorrow.

 

[Class 466]

Certainly feels odd seeing only Optare Solos pass my house this morning on the 666 & the G again.

 

[darloscott]

Went down from the North East to experience the network last weekend and certainly didn't seem to be heavily patronised on the Saturday at least, though some routes were better than others.

 

[alex397]

Certainly feels odd seeing only Optare Solos pass my house this morning on the 666 & the G again.

Solos were quite rare on the 666 before the changes, although I guess Mon-Sat workings will still be Darts.

I was in Ashford today, waiting for a rail replacement bus, and saw the Solos on the B and C. This will be the first time seeing the 'Bridgefield' destination on a vehicle other than a Mercedes. As expected, the Solos were the old existing ones, and I did not see any 'Little&Often' branding on any of the 3 Solos I saw.

 

[FlippyFF]

So far this morning I've seen:
A Dart on the 06:57 G - Waitrose to Station running eight minutes late. (According to thier realtime info the return journey was running sixteen minutes late but now down to twelve and they cant work out why patronage was lower than hoped...)
A Solo on the 666* sounding like one of those blower/streamer things you get a kids parties.
Four Solos across the A, B, C and D, not one had L&O branding.

* Changed EX to 666.

Simon
Given up with the E/G/666 and walking instead.

 

[Class 466]

Saw 47067 (SF04 SKN) yesterday on the B, which is 'new' to the Ashford area and had come out of the reserve fleet from Eastbourne (transferred there from the Dumfries area!). Saw an ALX400 on the 'Little & Often' A, and an Enviro 400 on the D - both looking rather empty!

 

[FlippyFF]

I saw a Solo, possibly 47117, with L&O branding yesterday. Just vinyls over the existing livery.

(Edited to fix typo)

Simon

 

[Bungle965]

I believe these are the Little and Often buses up in Scotland if I am right in thinking.
https://flic.kr/p/27GBDPv (not my photo)
Sam