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ASLEF - LNER drivers to strike every Sat & Sun for 3 months from 31 Aug - Now called off

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12LDA28C

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How much detail should be provided, in your opinion?

Exactly that which has been provided. That should be sufficient and it appears LNER and ASLEF agree. I don't expect to know the ins and outs of an NHS dispute for example, or the details of any unrest in any other industry, whether it affects me directly or not.

I still think its bad timing why they left it two years before going nuclear is beyond me. Thats bad it should have been strike action sooner.

This, we can both agree on. Maybe something has happened very recently to tip the balance and force the union's hand.
 
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I’m not a railway employee so mods can delete if you feel we’re drifting off topic here. I finished my late shift at 11.00pm, supervisor locked up the store, we went home. 6:10 next morning early shift supervisor phoned me asking if I’d taken a particular set of keys home. Turned out I had, so I made arrangements to get them down to the store asap. If management aren’t supposed to be calling you out of hours/on your rest day, was he supposed to just break the cabinet open and then have the expense of new locks through not being allowed to check whether one of the evening colleagues had, inadvertently or otherwise, taken the keys home?
When I worked on stations we signed keys out and in. And had an identical key cabinet with spares of everything.

One of the things to be checked before going home was all keys had been signed back in.
 

NSEWonderer

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I’m not a railway employee so mods can delete if you feel we’re drifting off topic here. I finished my late shift at 11.00pm, supervisor locked up the store, we went home. 6:10 next morning early shift supervisor phoned me asking if I’d taken a particular set of keys home. Turned out I had, so I made arrangements to get them down to the store asap. If management aren’t supposed to be calling you out of hours/on your rest day, was he supposed to just break the cabinet open and then have the expense of new locks through not being allowed to check whether one of the evening colleagues had, inadvertently or otherwise, taken the keys home?
Completely different here...
 

Clarence Yard

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How much detail should be provided, in your opinion?

Well simply what the poster I referenced put. What they included is enough information for me to understand how bad its got. But not too much for us to break GDPR or data protection of the people involved. No more no less.

What ASLEF put out was absolutely nothing but this kind poster posted the right amount of detail to satisfy everyone and not breaching any confidence.


I dont entirely agree. We have seen by the lovely poster who gave a detailed breakdown as to how bad its got do so as to not identify anyone. It pursuaded me as a passenger to agree with the strike (in principle) but not to identify anyone.

I still think its bad timing why they left it two years before going nuclear is beyond me. Thats bad it should have been strike action sooner.

There was but it went largely unnoticed, given the wider pay dispute.
 

66701GBRF

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I’m not a railway employee so mods can delete if you feel we’re drifting off topic here. I finished my late shift at 11.00pm, supervisor locked up the store, we went home. 6:10 next morning early shift supervisor phoned me asking if I’d taken a particular set of keys home. Turned out I had, so I made arrangements to get them down to the store asap. If management aren’t supposed to be calling you out of hours/on your rest day, was he supposed to just break the cabinet open and then have the expense of new locks through not being allowed to check whether one of the evening colleagues had, inadvertently or otherwise, taken the keys home?
Apples and Oranges. We are talking about calling people at home (who are rest day not available) to come in and cover jobs...not whether they have accidently taken equipment home needed for the next shift/crew.
 

Meole

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Staff liable to be called at home should be receiving a call allowance as standard.
 

Bletchleyite

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Staff liable to be called at home should be receiving a call allowance as standard.

I don't agree unless responding to a callout is mandatory. This isn't that, it's calling to offer them optional overtime. They may wish to register a preference not to receive such calls which should be respected, but paying people for on call when they're not on call isn't a reasonable request.
 

londonbridge

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Apples and Oranges. We are talking about calling people at home (who are rest day not available) to come in and cover jobs...not whether they have accidently taken equipment home needed for the next shift/crew.
Fair enough, I was referencing the point of contacting people out of hours…..in my case then, 6am we have the supervisor and two colleagues with a third colleague starting at 7, if the 7am colleague goes sick the boss will want to try and find cover from somewhere.
 

Starmill

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I don't agree unless responding to a callout is mandatory. This isn't that, it's calling to offer them optional overtime. They may wish to register a preference not to receive such calls which should be respected, but paying people for on call when they're not on call isn't a reasonable request.
It's also totally reasonable to simply not give your line manager your personal telephone number, Facebook, Telegram, or whatever it may be if you prefer to not have them use it. Nearly everyone gets a work phone, this is what it's for.
 

Bletchleyite

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It's also totally reasonable to simply not give your line manager your personal telephone number, Facebook, Telegram, or whatever it may be if you prefer to not have them use it. Nearly everyone gets a work phone, this is what it's for.

HR should have a non-work contact number for emergency purposes, but it should never be given out for frivolous purposes like this, and indeed if it is it may prove to be a GDPR breach if misused.

However the idea of being paid to be on call for an optional response is, either way, totally unreasonable. On call is paid if the response is contractually mandatory, so e.g. you can't stray far from home or drink alcohol, and the payment is in return for the inconvenience of that.
 

66701GBRF

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However the idea of being paid to be on call for an optional response is, either way, totally unreasonable. On call is paid if the response is contractually mandatory, so e.g. you can't stray far from home or drink alcohol, and the payment is in return for the inconvenience of that.
The person you quoted talked about a call allowance, not an on-call allowance. A call allowance is a payment made for calling you at home. I am led to believe Freightliner has or had something similar.
 

Bletchleyite

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The person you quoted talked about a call allowance, not an on-call allowance. A call allowance is a payment made for calling you at home. I am led to believe Freightliner has or had something similar.

Oh, you mean a premium on top of the offered overtime for being called? I've never heard that called that - the term I've heard for it is a callout payment, which probably isn't unreasonable. Perhaps the OP could clarify for us.
 

66701GBRF

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Allowance might be the wrong word, but I have been told that they get some sort of payment if they get called when off duty regardless if they accept the overtime or not.
 

Bletchleyite

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Allowance might be the wrong word, but I have been told that they get some sort of payment if they get called when off duty regardless if they accept the overtime or not.

Crikey. I think expecting to be paid for answering the phone briefly and saying "no thanks" is just downright unreasonable and I'm amazed any operator does it! A premium for actually accepting it (having disrupted your plans to do so) seems reasonable to me though. And obviously if anyone has said "don't call me for overtime ever" that must be respected.
 

Falcon1200

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The fact all the spares are always preallocated because the company don't employ enough staff is the issue here.

And that is an issue, there should be sufficient spare cover to cover expected absence, such as Annual Leave, and perhaps a certain level of sickness.

With respect, that is a manager problem, not someone who's home on their rest days. Feel free to phone or leave a message on my work phone or email, but if you were calling me at 0500 on a personal number we'd being having words the next time we see each other.

When I was calling staff out, including at 0500, they did not have work phones, and were not reading their e-mails at that time either! If calling staff at home was not allowed jobs would end up uncovered. Control offices have no control over their workload, and while a shift being a Controller short might have no serious impact, if it happened to be a (very) quiet day, that could never, ever, be guaranteed to be the case.

Use of personal telephone numbers for work is poor form in any line of business in my view.

Only if an alternative is available, which during my time calling staff out was not the case.
 

Horizon22

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I'm generally seen as quite militant and I have no problem being asked about overtime! As I said above though, depending on what I'm working and the time of day a text is preferred.

If I ever had a manager repeatedly calling me like I hear has been the case here, I'd WhatsApp them a video of me opening a bottle of vodka - that should stop them asking me :lol:

Its very varied - some people don't mind the call, some people actively don't want anything 1 minute after they leave the depot/office.

However good local management should know who will take every shift going, who won't touch overtime with a bargepole and all those in between.

There's definitely a middle ground here which isn't "calling on rest days = bad" and there are many different approaches to help make it work - for an example a depot/work WhatsApp group with posts available shifts which is completely voluntary to be in. I can imagine lots of staff would be annoyed if they weren't asked!
 

Bletchleyite

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When I was calling staff out, including at 0500, they did not have work phones, and were not reading their e-mails at that time either! If calling staff at home was not allowed jobs would end up uncovered.

Maybe the railway should employ enough staff to cover all the shifts, then, with a proper on-call rota (as airlines do) to cover any where someone might not show up unexpectedly.

Indeed, isn't the failure to do this at the root of rather a lot of problems?
 

Horizon22

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Maybe the railway should employ enough staff to cover all the shifts, then, with a proper on-call rota (as airlines do) to cover any where someone might not show up unexpectedly.

Indeed, isn't the failure to do this at the root of rather a lot of problems?

There are so many variables even when you have enough staff and spares - sickness, additional training, other duties, emergency leave etc. You can also have someone in position but not productive yet, something particularly acute in the driver world.
 

Falcon1200

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Maybe the railway should employ enough staff to cover all the shifts, then, with a proper on-call rota (as airlines do) to cover any where someone might not show up unexpectedly.

Indeed, isn't the failure to do this at the root of rather a lot of problems?

It is not feasible, for a Control office, to have on-call staff permanently waiting by the phone on the off-chance someone calls in sick. Apart from anything else, staff are either at work or on their rest day.
 

Horizon22

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It is not feasible, for a Control office, to have on-call staff permanently waiting by the phone on the off-chance someone calls in sick. Apart from anything else, staff are either at work or on their rest day.

Well it is, if you have spare shifts who have not been used. However this is rare as spare coverage is normally already eaten up.
 

a_c_skinner

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My extensive experience of unfilled shifts in the NHS (all the same deal, too few staff, sickness rising because of managerial conduct) is that if the local managers are bullying (and this probably is) local staff it is because they in their turn are being bullied from higher up. A fish rots from the head, they say. Here as in the NHS it will be to deliver targets and harsh management is cheaper than proper staffing.
 

chuff chuff

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Can remember spares roughly very couple of hours with shed and ferry men on top.Before having to give a contact number they used to have to send taxis to deliver notes to staff.
 

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Maybe the railway should employ enough staff to cover all the shifts, then, with a proper on-call rota (as airlines do) to cover any where someone might not show up unexpectedly.

Indeed, isn't the failure to do this at the root of rather a lot of problems?
Should the cost of employing extra staff fall onto the taxpayer or passenger?
 

stephen rp

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Other work settings have similar issues. Other than in industrial areas, most fire & rescue services cover large areas with "on call" crews, especially at night, who have to live close to the fire station. But individuals can sign as available or not, and the system is breaking down a bit. Let's just say that if you live in a rural area, you don't want your fire on a Friday or Saturday night.
 

newtownmgr

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HR should have a non-work contact number for emergency purposes, but it should never be given out for frivolous purposes like this, and indeed if it is it may prove to be a GDPR breach if misused.

However the idea of being paid to be on call for an optional response is, either way, totally unreasonable. On call is paid if the response is contractually mandatory, so e.g. you can't stray far from home or drink alcohol, and the payment is in return for the inconvenience of that.
HR have my home number only.
Driver Managers have both home and mobile due to me being an instructor.
TCS’s dont have any as I don’t and won’t work overtime so no need for them to have it.
 
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Maybe the railway should employ enough staff to cover all the shifts, then, with a proper on-call rota (as airlines do) to cover any where someone might not show up unexpectedly.

Indeed, isn't the failure to do this at the root of rather a lot of problems?
To be fair man power planning in airlines is often just as haphazard, although standby crew are generally sufficient I’ve worked at several airlines that have relied on good will and overtime over the summer periods too and even received a call at the end of standby asking me to (illegally) work a night flight after a day home standby had just finished.

This though, I have to say, is rare and a supervisor listening in on the call in control quickly apologised and put and end to it. Much like drivers though someone somewhere was willing to take a call on days off and get paid flat rate and a lieu day for the work.

As a rule I didn’t do overtime, unless it was really desperate, at said airline as it wasn’t paid at an enhanced rate and I valued my time at home more, my phone would often ring with the control number on days off and I chose to answer or not, as per contract, I never let it bother me that they were trying though. After all the immense pressure for control staff is often forgotten by crew (air or train), but if I was halfway into a night out there was little point in slurring an apology at an already busy crew controller.
 
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