ASLEF non-contractual overtime bans -various dates and TOCs

[Jan Mayen]

Yes No

Only takes a bit of disruption such as a unit failure and extra shunts become required. These are not diagrammed anywhere so no driver has to contractually do them and there is very little slack so favours are usually asked. These favours will be politely declined, which then means services have to be cancelled to get a driver to clear the line.

Even if it's actually within the drivers contractual hours and won't require overtime of any sort?

 

[43066]

Even if it's actually within the drivers contractual hours and won't require overtime of any sort?

Not if it means going off a booked running turn, which are already fully accounted for with driving, break, time to mobilise trains etc.

Spare or standby drivers can be asked, but often they will already have been used in the case of disruption (or not rostered at all during shortages).

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

In contrast, the last one absolutely ruined GTR services for the duration.

Thats because GTR didn't have time to replan so went straight for a safe option. Suspect it will be same again this time as planning resource is only there for the day job of engineering works.

 

[philjo]

I’m intending to travel on Saturday 8th using Thameslink/Great Northern and SWR. Would I be better to go on Friday 7th instead? Some Saturdays have had little service on the GN route when there have been previous overtime bans.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

Yes No

Only takes a bit of disruption such as a unit failure and extra shunts become required. These are not diagrammed anywhere so no driver has to contractually do them and there is very little slack so favours are usually asked. These favours will be politely declined, which then means services have to be cancelled to get a driver to clear the line.

Which is exactly what happened at my depot the last time, last services curtailed and units left at the station

 

[whoosh]

Spare or standby drivers can be asked, but often they will already have been used in the case of disruption (or not rostered at all during shortages).

Or don't exist anymore at certain TOCs....!

 

[aquae39]

So I presume this overtime ban is a short notice cancellation on those days and we don't know which trains are going to be cancelled in advance, right?

I'll travel GWR from South West to London in that week, hopefully not affect too much.

 

[dk1]

So I presume this overtime ban is a short notice cancellation on those days and we don't know which trains are going to be cancelled in advance, right?

I'll travel GWR from South West to London in that week, hopefully not affect too much.

Yes. This is why it is often far more effective as it’s so very hard to pre-judge.

 

[Silverlinky]

Theres very little flexibility in the case of on-the-day disruption of course, but TOC's can advertise cancellations in advance if they know what jobs are uncovered after the latest markup is posted. So in theory they might know two or three days out what trains are at risk of cancellation.

 

[Peregrine 4903]

Thats because GTR didn't have time to replan so went straight for a safe option. Suspect it will be same again this time as planning resource is only there for the day job of engineering works.

That's not true.

 

[OneOfThe48]

That's not true.

Which part?

Not having enough time to replan or the day job being planning around engineering works?

 

[PGAT]

Which part?

Not having enough time to replan or the day job being planning around engineering works?

The former of what Nicholas said is definitely true.

 

[12LDA28C]

So I presume this overtime ban is a short notice cancellation on those days and we don't know which trains are going to be cancelled in advance, right?

I'll travel GWR from South West to London in that week, hopefully not affect too much.

Not necessarily. TOCs will have a good idea how much they rely on RDW and some will most likely reduce the service to a suitable level that they can fully resource the timetable and don't have to cancel trains due to lack of traincrew on the day.

Yes. This is why it is often far more effective as it’s so very hard to pre-judge.

Not if the TOC puts a reduced service plan in place to take into account less drivers being available.

 

[dk1]

Not if the TOC puts a reduced service plan in place to take into account less drivers being available.

As we did the other week. Trains cancelled and a messroom brimming with spare drivers. Always good for a card school with many.

 

[Cymroglan]

I wonder whether any kindly soul can advise on the impact of this action on SWR. In particular, I am due to travel from Brockenhurst to Hampton Court on 07/07 for an event. Would I be best advised to make alternative travel arrangements, or are trains likely to be ok? Thanks!

 

[trainophile]

Will it be a case of entire routes not covered, or just a reduced service e.g. 1TPH instead of 2TPH? If the latter, will existing tickets be valid on trains either side of the cancellations, or will we have to buy new tickets and claim back for the unusable ones? Or will it depend on each individual operator's policy?

 

[Watershed]

Will it be a case of entire routes not covered, or just a reduced service e.g. 1TPH instead of 2TPH? If the latter, will existing tickets be valid on trains either side of the cancellations, or will we have to buy new tickets and claim back for the unusable ones? Or will it depend on each individual operator's policy?

It's unlikely that the overtime ban will have a substantial impact on WMT or Avanti services, which I believe are the TOCs you tend to use most commonly. TfW aren't affected by the ban at all. There will probably just be more on-the-day cancellations than usual.

I don't think there will be any change to the usual rules, i.e. that you can take the train either side on an Advance if your booked one is cancelled. Certainly inadvisable to go refunding existing tickets and buying more expensive ones.

 

[trainophile]

It's unlikely that the overtime ban will have a substantial impact on WMT or Avanti services, which I believe are the TOCs you tend to use most commonly. TfW aren't affected by the ban at all. There will probably just be more on-the-day cancellations than usual.

I don't think there will be any change to the usual rules, i.e. that you can take the train either side on an Advance if your booked one is cancelled. Certainly inadvisable to go refunding existing tickets and buying more expensive ones.

Thanks. You're right about WMT but I rarely use Avanti (except when I treat myself to a mini break in Scotland), it's WMT and LNR on my regular journeys. However on this occasion we're going to Matlock on 6th, returning 7th, so WMT to New Street then XC from there and I believe EMR between Derby and Matlock. I'm guessing XC and EMR might be a little more problematic?

 

[vlad]

Will the resultant cancellations be published before the relevant dates?

GWR have announced that the sleepers won't be running that week (which annoys me) but to my knowledge haven't declared any other cancellations yet.

 

[dk1]

GWR have announced that the sleepers won't be running that week (which annoys me) but to my knowledge haven't declared any other cancellations yet.

Unfortunate as it is, it’s not sensible to try to run a service that has very limited traincrew cover available and relies explicitly on good will & overtime for much of its cover.

 

[urbophile]

How is Transpennine likely to be affected on Friday 7th? I know it's not good at the best of times.

 

[Llandudno]

Thanks. You're right about WMT but I rarely use Avanti (except when I treat myself to a mini break in Scotland), it's WMT and LNR on my regular journeys. However on this occasion we're going to Matlock on 6th, returning 7th, so WMT to New Street then XC from there and I believe EMR between Derby and Matlock. I'm guessing XC and EMR might be a little more problematic?

If you can get to Derby there are 2 buses per hour to Matlock - £2 single fare at the moment!

 

[trainophile]

If you can get to Derby there are 2 buses per hour to Matlock - £2 single fare at the moment!

Thanks, that's worth knowing in advance! Do they go from near the station?

 

[Llandudno]

Thanks, that's worth knowing in advance! Do they go from near the station?

You will need to walk up to the bus station in the City Centre it’s about a 15 minute level walk, alternatively there are buses outside the main station entrance every 10 minutes to the bus station.

 

[trainophile]

You will need to walk up to the bus station in the City Centre it’s about a 15 minute level walk, alternatively there are buses outside the main station entrance every 10 minutes to the bus station.

Thanks again. Hope for the best with the trains but it's good to have a Plan B.

 

[43055]

Thanks. You're right about WMT but I rarely use Avanti (except when I treat myself to a mini break in Scotland), it's WMT and LNR on my regular journeys. However on this occasion we're going to Matlock on 6th, returning 7th, so WMT to New Street then XC from there and I believe EMR between Derby and Matlock. I'm guessing XC and EMR might be a little more problematic?

Not 100% sure but I don't believe the regional side of EMR was largely affected last time. Certainly noticed a few changes on the London services. As Llandudno says if there are any issues then the Transpeak and sixes 6.1 run from Derby to Matlock, both are hourly. The former is the faster of the two routes.

 

[Horizon22]

GWR have announced that the sleepers won't be running that week (which annoys me) but to my knowledge haven't declared any other cancellations yet.

There will be more, but it will be ad-hoc and probably not even known by GWR until 48-72 hours in advance at best.

 

[Royston Vasey]

Well, it's after 10pm so the "timetable of the day" is set... and my eight hour Greater Anglia/MTR/GWR/TfW/Northern itinerary tomorrow has at least survived into the timetable. Let's see what happens in practice.

 

[akm]

I’m intending to travel on Saturday 8th using Thameslink/Great Northern and SWR. Would I be better to go on Friday 7th instead? Some Saturdays have had little service on the GN route when there have been previous overtime bans.

So I presume this overtime ban is a short notice cancellation on those days and we don't know which trains are going to be cancelled in advance, right?

I'll travel GWR from South West to London in that week, hopefully not affect too much.

I wonder whether any kindly soul can advise on the impact of this action on SWR. In particular, I am due to travel from Brockenhurst to Hampton Court on 07/07 for an event. Would I be best advised to make alternative travel arrangements, or are trains likely to be ok? Thanks!

SWR have now published their timetable for that week. Summary of arrangements here:

Industrial Action | South Western Railway

Industrial action by members of the ASLEF union will take place during January and February

www.southwesternrailway.com

Journey planners (including brtimes.com) are all updated

 

[DarloRich]

A question: How are XC impacted by this news?

I have to travel up to the north east on Thursday evening to deal with a family matter on Friday, travelling back Friday evening or Saturday morning. The problem is I cant get away from work until 1700 the Thursday so will have to use the later XC trains from Birmingham/Tamworth

From memory Avanti and LNWR were not to badly impacted by overtime bans last time round but I have no knowledge on XC. Any advice greatly appreciated!