Austria (and perhaps other European countries?) return to full lockdown

[Smidster]

I really don't get this living with covid thing! Comming from Covid free Queensland where its been zero cases for weeks. Thus no restrictions locally no masks and everything open normally has it has been for much of the pandemic. The only restriction we have is very strict border control with requirements to be fully vaccinated and return a negative PCR before travel. Plus 14 days home quranteen or 14 days hotel Quranteen for non residents.

The fact is that sooner or later all countries will need to find a way to live with Covid - it is a disease that is going to be endemic in the community and so unless you plan on keeping restrictions for the next 5 years or more then you need to live with it.

 

[WestRiding]

Australia has been one of the cringy and embarrassing examples of dealing with covid. Far from normal when it cut itself off from the world.

 

[thaitransit]

Australia would have preferred to have kept some form or strict international border just in case of new variant and to keep cases at zero forever. If it wasn't for the quranteen stuff up in june 2021 in NSW that was let to fester for 2 weeks constantly spreading around Sydney undetected. It was hoped that all of Australia would have been covid zero and a 7 day Quranteen for fully vaccinated travellers could have be introduced. but no its now left to Queensland and Western Australia to be the last bastions of covid free bliss in the world.

 

[DustyBin]

Australia would have preferred to have kept some form or strict international border just in case of new variant and to keep cases at zero forever. If it wasn't for the quranteen stuff up in june 2021 in NSW that was let to fester for 2 weeks constantly spreading around Sydney undetected. It was hoped that all of Australia would have been covid zero and a 7 day Quranteen for fully vaccinated travellers could have be introduced. but no its now left to Queensland and Western Australia to be the last bastions of covid free bliss in the world.

AKA hermit states....

 

[AlterEgo]

I really don't get this living with covid thing! Comming from Covid free Queensland where its been zero cases for weeks. Thus no restrictions locally no masks and everything open normally has it has been for much of the pandemic. The only restriction we have is very strict border control with requirements to be fully vaccinated and return a negative PCR before travel. Plus 14 days home quranteen or 14 days hotel Quranteen for non residents.

That's fine if you never plan to leave, and just live like a plant. It's not really a sustainable way of doing things.

Australia would have preferred to have kept some form or strict international border just in case of new variant and to keep cases at zero forever.

Cloud cuckoo land stuff as Australia has found out. Everywhere has to reopen to the world sometime, and nearly all of the world has decided that Australia's approcah is bonkers, because covid cannot be eradicated.

 

[Freightmaster]

...it's now left to Queensland and Western Australia to be the last bastions of covid free bliss denial in the world.

Fixed that for you!




MARK

 

[island]

Rolling news channels are reporting the nu variant has arrived in Belgium, so I suspect it won't be long before it gets here on the train.

 

[DustyBin]

Rolling news channels are reporting the nu variant has arrived in Belgium, so I suspect it won't be long before it gets here on the train.

In that case there's a good chance it's already here. Whether it actually matters or not remains to be seen. Still, easy headlines!

 

[kristiang85]

In that case there's a good chance it's already here. Whether it actually matters or not remains to be seen. Still, easy headlines!

A patient returning from Egypt, via Turkey, contracted the variant of concern, according to the National Reference Laboratory, which sent a nationwide communication to raise urgency over passengers arriving from South Africa.

(from the Telegraph).

The cat is already out of the bag. But we have no idea if this is more dangerous, so the scaremongering is just irresponsible.

I see that idiot Ding is on the fearmongering warpath. That is probably a good thing, as his predictions are normally completely the opposite to the truth.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

In that case there's a good chance it's already here. Whether it actually matters or not remains to be seen. Still, easy headlines!

100's of variants have been identified and bar a few like delta most have not been of concern and we've not changed anything however much Indie Sage and other groups have pushed back. The Nu variant though exhibits certain characteristics that make it a concern so its wise to be cautious about it until we get some understanding of whether it evades the vaccinated although I suspect reality is its already here and hasn't been picked up yet as they weren't looking for it. Delta remains dominant at 95% of genomic sequences this week Nu not event mentioned.

 

[kristiang85]

Here is Chise's analysis:

If there is one thing I am going to tell you today it is to IGNORE the media and the clickbait headlines on this new variant. There is NO plausible scenario this will take us back to square one and there is a lot of misinformation currently circulating. Working on a thread now.
Just a friendly reminder. Despite what you might hear, there has yet to be a variant that isn’t susceptible to the vaccines.
Let’s talk about Nu (B.1.1.529) clear up some misconceptions, and talk about why it is unlikely it will evade vaccine-induced immunity.
Why are variants unlikely to FULLY evade vaccine-induced immunity?
•Vaccines are POLYCLONAL
•CD8+ T-cells covering 52 epitopes across the spike protein
•CD4+ T-cells covering 23 epitopes across the spike protein
For more on this see: https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abm0829

So, let’s get a couple of things straight NO ONE knows if it is more transmissible at this point. Seeing “Nu is 500% more transmissible” with no data and maybe a bad interpretation of a graph? Yeah, someone is yanking your chain. Also it is NOT a new virus, it is A VARIANT of the same SARS-COV-2 virus we have been dealing with for almost 2 years now. Stop that. Give me a break. To those saying it is “outcompeting” Delta. Important thing to keep in mind: there hasn’t been much Delta to displace or “outcompete.” Until last week, South Africa was at its lowest incidence rate since the beginning of the pandemic. In other words, the low incidence of Delta in South Africa kinda means that Nu becoming dominant is weaker evidence of it “outcompeting” it when there really wasn’t much to outcompete so to speak. You can see for yourself here. With relatively low cases, this may left a void which a new variant could spread into more easily- it likely hasn't had to compete with Delta and in other countries where Delta rages on, it very well may not be as fit: https://twitter.com/sailorrooscout/status/1464234992242937857

Secondly, we can’t predict virus behavior in its entirety from mutations. Yes, I know the number of mutations is off-putting BUT more mutations ≠ BAD. We have seen other alarming variants that have failed to spread as widely in the past. Next, I want everyone to know this now, we don’t know if there are other factors that may be helping this to spread. South Africa has a LOW VACCINATION RATE. We are talking about 24% FULLY VACCINATED and this DESPERATELY needs to be fixed. Vaccine equity is vital. Variants pop up out of low vaccinated areas. Immune evasion may not be needed to spread and fitness could EASILY differ in higher-vaccinated countries, and those dominated by Delta. I also recommend reading this thread here: https://twitter.com/CT_Bergstrom/status/1464058581502738435

In regards to those who were infected with Nu, some data has come out regarding the status of some individuals, specifically out of Hong Kong. Vaccinated fully with Pfizer back in May/June, the individual is currently ASYMPTOMATIC. You can read more here: https://twitter.com/sailorrooscout/status/1464013253898641420

These vaccines are polyclonal, there are non-neutralizing antibodies, and T-CELLS. Will the vaccines take a hit? Likely. as they do with ALL variants. Will it completely render these useless? Absolutely not. For those saying Nu decimates these vaccines to 30% efficacy? Stop that. It is also important to note that large antigenic change DOES NOT mean Nu will necessarily spread and outcompete other variants. That will also depend on its transmissibility, and no one has data on this just yet so, if you see that 500% more transmissible you are getting punked.

https://twitter.com/sailorrooscout/status/1464236087908483076

That is pretty much where we are at, but the media aren't portraying it that way. And unfortunately governments tend to bow to media pressure when it comes to COVID, mainly because the population take what they are told as gospel.

 

[MikeWM]

Here is Chise's analysis:

https://twitter.com/sailorrooscout/status/1464236087908483076

That is pretty much where we are at, but the media aren't portraying it that way. And unfortunately governments tend to bow to media pressure when it comes to COVID, mainly because the population take what they are told as gospel.

The first paper referenced there (https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abm0829) is very interesting in showing that there appears to be good (and fairly broad although limited to the 'spike') long-term immunity granted by the vaccines.

Which is good, and reassuring.

So why, all around the world, are we pushing 'boosters' on otherwise healthy people then?

 

[kristiang85]

So why, all around the world, are we pushing 'boosters' on otherwise healthy people then?

Becasuse there's an obsession with antibodies rather than other immune system components, and so many people in government/media can't accept yet that vaccines do not stop transmission or getting COVID (rather they stop serious illness in the vast majority of receipients).

If immunity worked in the way they seem to expect, then we wouldn't be getting colds every winter.

 

[DustyBin]

Becasuse there's an obsession with antibodies rather than other immune system components, and so many people in government/media can't accept yet that vaccines do not stop transmission or getting COVID (rather they stop serious illness in the vast majority of receipients).

If immunity worked in the way they seem to expect, then we wouldn't be getting colds every winter.

Can this be put down to staggering levels of incompetence, or are they wilfully misleading us, and if so why? Neither scenario is particularly reassuring!

 

[bramling]

Can this be put down to staggering levels of incompetence, or are they wilfully misleading us, and if so why? Neither scenario is particularly reassuring!

There is *still* very much a view amongst many people that the entire governmental Covid response is designed to “stop me getting Covid”.

Catching viruses is unfortunately part and parcel of normal life. A lot of people seem surprised to have picked up colds this autumn, perhaps made worse by having had 18 months of reduced exposure.

Hand gels and the like possibly have a role to play in certain situations, but on balance we’re at the point where they’re probably now counter productive.

 

[DustyBin]

Becasuse there's an obsession with antibodies rather than other immune system components, and so many people in government/media can't accept yet that vaccines do not stop transmission or getting COVID (rather they stop serious illness in the vast majority of receipients).

If immunity worked in the way they seem to expect, then we wouldn't be getting colds every winter.

Here's an interesting article from Nature which explains the limitations of our current vaccines/vaccine strategy and may explain the need for boosters (I suggest opening the link as it's easier to read):

T cell-oriented strategies for controlling the COVID-19 pandemic | Nature Reviews Immunology

T cell-oriented strategies for controlling the COVID-19 pandemic​

• Ji Yun Noh,
• Hye Won Jeong,
• Jerome H. Kim &
• Eui-Cheol Shin

Nature Reviews Immunology volume 21, pages687–688 (2021)Cite this article

• 9959 Accesses
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COVID-19 vaccination programmes are ongoing worldwide. Neutralizing antibodies are thought to be key for host protection against COVID-19; however, strategies that focus only on neutralizing antibodies may not be sufficient to cope with the pandemic in the longer term owing to the decay of antibody titres and the emergence of antibody-escape variants of SARS-CoV-2. Here, we describe the protective roles of T cells in COVID-19 and the conservation of T cell epitopes in SARS-CoV-2 variants of concern, and discuss the potential contribution of T cell-oriented strategies to controlling the COVID-19 pandemic.
COVID-19 vaccines induce both virus-specific antibodies and T cell responses, but it is the neutralizing antibodies (nAbs) that interfere with the entry of SARS-CoV-2 into host cells that are considered to be key for host protection. However, the level of nAbs declines with time after SARS-CoV-2 infection or vaccination1. Moreover, recently emerging SARS-CoV-2 variants can escape nAbs elicited by natural infection or vaccination2.
During a typical virus infection, CD4+ and CD8+ T cells contribute to controlling the virus by producing effector cytokines, such as IFNγ and TNF, and by exerting cytotoxic activity against virus-infected cells. Indeed, early and robust SARS-CoV-2-specific T cell responses have been associated with limiting the severity of COVID-19 (ref.3). In a study examining SARS-CoV-2-specific immune responses in patients with acute COVID-19, there was a strong inverse correlation between the frequency of SARS-CoV-2-specific IFNγ-producing CD8+ T cells and disease severity3. In addition, CD8+ T cells specific for conserved epitopes across common cold coronaviruses (CCCoVs) are enriched in patients with mild COVID-19 (ref.4). Given that individuals not exposed to SARS-CoV-2 have cross-reactive T cells primed by previous CCCoV infection, this suggests that pre-existing T cell immunity could ameliorate progression to severe COVID-19.
Intriguingly, host protection mediated by T cells has been observed in patients with COVID-19 who have insufficient humoral immune responses. Among patients with a haematological malignancy who became infected with SARS-CoV-2, anti-CD20 therapy was not associated with increased fatality, disease severity or viral load, despite low titres of SARS-CoV-2-specific IgG5. In these patients, including those receiving anti-CD20 therapy, SARS-CoV-2-specific T cell responses were detected, and higher levels of CD8+ T cell-mediated immunity were associated with improved patient survival.
Similarly, the protective roles of T cell-mediated immunity against SARS-CoV-2 have been demonstrated in animal models. Mice immunized with a vaccine expressing SARS-CoV-2 T cell epitopes exhibited decreased viral titres and reduced lung pathology when challenged with SARS-CoV-2, despite the absence of nAbs, which indicates that SARS-CoV-2-specific T cell vaccination confers partial protection from severe disease6. In a macaque model, CD8+ T cell depletion in convalescent animals was shown to partially abrogate host protection against SARS-CoV-2 re-challenge7. Together, these results in human patients and animal models indicate that T cells have a host protective role during COVID-19, particularly when the humoral immune response is insufficient.
SARS-CoV-2 nAbs elicited by infection or vaccination might become insufficient for host protection owing to declining titres over time and/or the emergence of viral escape variants. Although the kinetics of nAb titres vary among COVID-19 convalescent individuals, more than half of these individuals have waning levels of nAbs after 6 months1. Moreover, SARS-CoV-2 variants of concern (VOCs) that have emerged have resulted in considerably reduced activity of nAbs induced by previous infection or vaccination. Sera from convalescent individuals and vaccine recipients have significantly weakened neutralizing activities against the Beta (B.1.351) and Delta (B.1.617.2) variants of SARS-CoV-2 (ref.2). The emergence and rapid rise to global predominance of the Delta variant, together with the emergence of the Lambda variant (C.37), remind us that VOCs are likely to continue to evolve and challenge existing vaccines that depend primarily on humoral immune responses.
Compared with nAbs, SARS-CoV-2-specific memory T cells are maintained for a relatively long time (Table 1). A recent study showed that SARS-CoV-2-specific memory CD4+ and CD8+ T cell responses are sustained in COVID-19 convalescent individuals for 10 months regardless of disease severity8. The persistence of memory T cell responses to SARS-CoV for 17 years has been demonstrated9. Moreover, there is increasing evidence that SARS-CoV-2 VOCs rarely escape memory T cell responses elicited by SARS-CoV-2 infection or vaccination. One study showed that SARS-CoV-2-specific T cell reactivity in COVID-19 convalescent individuals and vaccine recipients is reduced by only 10–22% by virus variants, including the Alpha (B.1.1.7), Beta, Gamma (P.1) and Epsilon (B.1.429) variants10. By analysing amino acid sequences, it was shown that 93% and 97% of the CD4+ and CD8+ T cell epitopes, respectively, were conserved in these variants. In principle, it is more difficult for a virus to evade T cell responses than nAbs because multiple T cell epitopes are distributed across both structural and non-structural viral proteins, including internal virus components, whereas nAbs tend to target a restricted protein domain exposed on the virus surface — such as the spike (S) protein of SARS-CoV-2, which is targeted by the currently approved viral vector and mRNA vaccines for COVID-19.
Currently, other vaccines with multiple targets, not limited to the SARS-CoV-2 S protein, are under development that should induce broad T cell responses. For example, UB-612, a protein-based vaccine incorporating multiple CD4+ and CD8+ T cell epitopes selected from the matrix (M), S2 and nucleocapsid (N) proteins of SARS-CoV-2, is in a phase II/III clinical trial (NCT04683224). Using a DNA platform, GX-19N expressing S and N proteins (NCT04715997) and GLS-5310 expressing S and ORF3a proteins (NCT04673149) are in phase I/II trials. There are also adenovirus vector vaccines expressing S and N proteins in development, including hAd5-S-Fusion + N-ETSD (NCT04843722) and VXA-CoV2-1 (NCT04563702). Chimpanzee adenovirus and self-amplifying mRNA vector vaccines expressing S protein and additional T cell epitopes (NCT04776317) and a synthetic modified vaccinia Ankara viral vector vaccine encoding S and N proteins (NCT04977024) are under investigation. Peptide vaccines using CD4+ or CD8+ T cell epitopes are being developed (NCT04885361), particularly for adults with congenital or acquired humoral immune deficiency (NCT04954469).
It is not likely to be possible to achieve herd immunity against the current COVID-19 pandemic owing to the decay of nAb titres and the continuing emergence of escape variants. A practical goal may therefore be to reduce damage to public health by making COVID-19 a controllable disease, similar to influenza or the common cold, although the elderly and immunocompromised patients would still be at risk of severe disease. We therefore need to continue work on such vaccines that induce durable and broad protective T cell-mediated immunity against COVID-19.
In the meantime, we should continue current vaccination programmes using the approved COVID-19 vaccines, which are still partially effective against SARS-CoV-2 VOCs, particularly in the prevention of severe or lethal COVID-19. Furthermore, SARS-CoV-2 breakthrough infections seem to be characterized by mild illness, low viral load and reduced (but not negligible) transmission risk. We believe that T cells could provide a solid defence against COVID-19 secondary to the activity of nAbs. Thus, sophisticated T cell-oriented vaccine strategies should be considered to control the COVID-19 pandemic in the longer term.

Here is the table from the article:



Our current strategy is the top one as I understand it....

In my mind this raises the same controversial/awkward/unpopular question; was it a good idea to vaccinate perfectly healthy people against this virus, bearing in mind it poses next to no risk to them?

 

[WestRiding]

Do we all think the new variant will force a ban on travel within Europe then? Looks like it could happen, unless its hysteria from the media.

 

[scarby]

Do we all think the new variant will force a ban on travel within Europe then? Looks like it could happen, unless its hysteria from the media.

I am in France (travelled from Sweden) and there must be hundreds of thousands of people travelling between and staying in different EU and other European countries right now. So good luck to them with that - I certainly aren’t going anywhere until I’ve completed the stay here that I am enjoying.

 

[LAX54]

There is *still* very much a view amongst many people that the entire governmental Covid response is designed to “stop me getting Covid”.

Catching viruses is unfortunately part and parcel of normal life. A lot of people seem surprised to have picked up colds this autumn, perhaps made worse by having had 18 months of reduced exposure.

Hand gels and the like possibly have a role to play in certain situations, but on balance we’re at the point where they’re probably now counter productive.

The wearing of masks in Germany caught me out a little, any CLOTH style masks, Scarves etc are not allowed, has to be disposable or FFP style, I was told twice in shops that I had to change the mask I was wearing.
Netherlands were quite hot on checking covid vaccination certificates before allowing you into a restaurant etc

 

[DustyBin]

The wearing of masks in Germany caught me out a little, any CLOTH style masks, Scarves etc are not allowed, has to be disposable or FFP style, I was told twice in shops that I had to change the mask I was wearing.
Netherlands were quite hot on checking covid vaccination certificates before allowing you into a restaurant etc

They’re really reaping the rewards of these NPIs aren’t they!

 

[duncanp]

I am in France (travelled from Sweden) and there must be hundreds of thousands of people travelling between and staying in different EU and other European countries right now. So good luck to them with that - I certainly aren’t going anywhere until I’ve completed the stay here that I am enjoying.

I am also in France (Lille) and will be off to Belgium tomorrow.

Enforcement of the Pass Sanitaire rules is patchy, to say the least, and whilst most people wear masks on public transport, there are lot of noses exposed.

Last night in a brasserie I saw a woman who didn't even remove her mask when seated, and only pulled it aside to take a brief sip of her bottled water through a straw.

 

[brad465]

Germany has now announced a lockdown for the unvaccinated as a precursor for mandatory vaccines, a move that Merkel has described as an act of "national solidarity". I could not think of a more stupid phrase to use when alienating a significant group of people from public life:

Covid: Germany puts major restrictions on unvaccinated

Chancellor Angela Merkel describes the far-reaching measures as an act of "national solidarity".

www.bbc.co.uk

Germany's national and regional leaders have agreed to bar unvaccinated people from much of public life in a bid to fend off a fourth wave of Covid-19.
Outgoing Chancellor Angela Merkel described the far-reaching measures as an act of "national solidarity".
Only those who have been vaccinated or recently recovered from Covid will be allowed in restaurants, cinemas, leisure facilities and many shops.
Vaccinations could be made mandatory by February, the chancellor added.
Germany's fourth wave of Covid is its most severe so far, with another 388 deaths recorded in the past 24 hours.
There is also growing concern about the spread of the Omicron variant, which EU health officials warn is likely to cause over half of all Covid cases in the next few months.
Mrs Merkel said hospitals were stretched to the point of patients having to be moved to different areas for treatment. "The fourth wave must be broken and this has not yet been achieved."
"Given the situation, I think it is appropriate to adopt compulsory vaccination," she said, while making clear that this would have to be approved by parliament.
Her successor Olaf Scholz, who is expected to take over as chancellor next Wednesday, had already said he backed the move, which would come a few weeks later than a similar Austrian law. Berlin Mayor Michael Müller said the vast majority of Covid cases were down to unvaccinated people.

The new measures are not described as a lockdown on the unvaccinated, although outgoing Health Minister Jens Spahn spoke earlier of a "quasi lockdown".
Some German states already operate so-called 2G policies, and these will now become nationwide - 2G stands for genesen (recovered in the past six months) or geimpft (vaccinated).
Under the measures agreed by Germany's 16 states and federal leaders:

• Unvaccinated people will be limited to meetings with their own household and two other people
• The 2G rule will be enforced at restaurants and cultural venues and non-essential shops
• Clubs will shut in areas where 350 cases have been recorded per 100,000 people in the past seven days - the national rate is over 400
• Up to 30 million vaccinations will be carried out by Christmas - first, second or boosters
• Outdoor events, including Bundesliga football, will have limited crowds of 15,000 and 2G rules
• Fireworks on New Year's Eve will be banned

While vaccinations have been stepped up in Germany - with almost a million carried out on Wednesday alone - only 68.7% of the population has been vaccinated, a relatively low rate for Western Europe.
Seventy-nine cases of the new Omicron variant of Covid-19 have been reported in 15 European countries so far, according to the EU's European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control.
Most cases were linked to travel to African countries while others were linked to connecting flights between Africa and Europe. The ECDC does not cover the UK.

 

[bramling]

Germany has now announced a lockdown for the unvaccinated as a precursor for mandatory vaccines, a move that Merkel has described as an act of "national solidarity". I could not think of a more stupid phrase to use when alienating a significant group of people from public life:

Covid: Germany puts major restrictions on unvaccinated

Chancellor Angela Merkel describes the far-reaching measures as an act of "national solidarity".

www.bbc.co.uk

Yes what on earth are they thinking with the term “national solidarity”. Very stupid choice of wording.

 

[NorthKent1989]

How is it National solidarity when you’re literally barring a section of society?

I want the pro-passports crowd to justify how this is good for health?

 

[Watershed]

"Solidarity". What a load of newspeak...

 

[MikeWM]

Particularly disappointing for this to be happening in Germany. I thought they would be far more resistant to this sort of thing than most.

I also thought most western European countries had constitutions that would prevent this sort of thing. Are they just being ignored?

 

[Watershed]

I also thought most western European countries had constitutions that would prevent this sort of thing. Are they just being ignored?

The problem is, those constitutions generally don't protect the right to go in shops or go about your daily life unhindered. It's something that seems so obviously reasonable and normal that no-one could have foreseen it would be a right that would be interfered with.

 

[21C101]

Yes what on earth are they thinking with the term “national solidarity”. Very stupid choice of wording.

Hmm
National Solidarity, sounds a bit familiar...

I also thought most western European countries had constitutions that would prevent this sort of thing. Are they just being ignored?

The main effect of constitutions is to take power away from elected politicians and hand it to unlected constitutional courts.

Also, in those countries, everything is forbidden except what is permitted by law.

In the UK, people are at liberty to do anytbing unless it is expressly prohibited in law.

It is much easier to withdraw permission for something that is only allowed in any case by the gracious permission of the state, than for the state to extingiush a liberty that has existed since time immemorial.

Also when the state permits something, they rarely do so in an unqualified way without caveats. Wheras if you are at liberty to do something it is none of the states business.

 

[MikeWM]

The problem is, those constitutions generally don't protect the right to go in shops or go about your daily life unhindered. It's something that seems so obviously reasonable and normal that no-one could have foreseen it would be a right that would be interfered with.

Yes, I suppose the problem is the same here, that did cross my mind last year. While there is the occasional bit of primary legislation that constricted some things the government could do via Public Health Act regulations (eg. the Equalities Act giving rise to mask exemptions), there's no specific primary legislation on the books that says I can go to a shop, or indeed leave my house.

The main effect of constitutions is to take power away from elected politicians and hand it to unlected constitutional courts.

This is true - but they can introduce an element of inertia to radical change, which can be helpful when politicians are trying to push through unpleasant radical changes.

The problem with the system we have in the UK is that given a reasonable majority in the House of Commons, a government can do pretty much whatever it likes, and there aren't any real constitutional levers to stop it or even slow it down. We don't have any real 'separation of powers'. We've been rather fortunate in this country so far that this hasn't caused us severe difficulties at some point or other.

Also, in those countries, everything is forbidden except what is permitted by law.

In the UK, people are at liberty to do anytbing unless it is expressly prohibited in law.

Well, from the beginning of time until about 21 months ago, yes. One of my biggest fears about all this is that there is an apparent desire by the powers that be to turn that around permanently, via 'government permission passes', or as they are currently called, 'vaccine passports'.

 

[Fragezeichnen]

Particularly disappointing for this to be happening in Germany. I thought they would be far more resistant to this sort of thing than most.

I also thought most western European countries had constitutions that would prevent this sort of thing. Are they just being ignored?

Just because the government announces something does not mean it is constitutional. This will have to be decided by the constitutional court in Karlsruhe, which can and does throw out laws they deem unconstitutional. In one particularly bizarre episode, the state(not federal) Government in Berlin passed a law which limited housing rents. Later on the Consitutional court declared it unconstitutional, and not only did the rents go back up, everyone had to pay back the rent they had saved whilst the illegal law was in force.

It is not yet known what they will say. However, the court already ruled a couple of years ago that children could be vaccinated for Measles against the wishes of their parents, and back in the 50's Germany had compulsory vaccinations against Smallpox, so the most likely outcome is that they would allow this too.

The reality is that vaccination quotients are dissapointingly low, this is driving the current infection wave, and most people are fed with it. One part of Saxony has a corona-incidence of over 2000, and surprise surprise, barely over half the population is vaccinated. It seems to be working. Lots more vaccination centers are being opened to cope with the demand from those who either out of disinterest or reluctance failed to get vaccinated until now.