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Automated Announcements

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142094

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All this was done i think because NR was getting complaints from people in the neighbouring estates about the PA been too loud.

Guessing that it was more due to feedback from passengers or staff, as most of the bulidings around the station are offices.

On a side note, does anyone have any of the automated announcements by Phil Sayer in the NE area, for Northern and Arriva Trains Northern services?
 
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thefab444

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On a slightly different note, how does Ditra know when a train is running a few minutes late? Occasionally, trains run 2/3 mins over and the CIS/PA update, is someone actually manually informing the system of minor train delays (obviously yes, if it's something major, when a reason needs to be chosen), or is it GPS, etc... Or when you get the 'stand well away' announcements... essentially my question is; What is it that allows Ditra to calculate in the Human factors, like these miniscule delays?

When it comes to severe delays and cancellations, I take it someone relays the information to Ditra. How would this be done, would you need to update all effected trains individually, or do you somehow specify a location and a duration of a holdup at that point and the system work itself out??

The live running information and stand away etc. comes from track circuits and TRUST, with the details of the actual services coming from TSDB - that's how it magically updates itself with ammended services if there is engineering works.

Of course, there is a certain level of manual intervention, to set up reasons for the delays (they never do this at Birmingham New Street for example), and to set up special announcements. This is all done from the CIS control offices of the TOC, Southern's is at Streatham Hill, I don't think Ditra have any involvement in the day to day running of the system.
 

jon0844

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And as we know from the recent months, the information from the track circuits to the screens has been delayed significantly at times which plays havoc with the 'the train at platform ...' and 'please stand well away from the edge of...' announcements.

Some days it's fine, some days everything is delayed up to a minute (enough to ensure trains have gone before the announcement starts). Goodness knows who has the responsibility to fix it, and who should be making sure it IS fixed.
 

KT4YU

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Thanks :) When you say track circuits, do you mean those 'yellow rectangular grills' on the track as you approach a station or have I lost you??

Correction: when I said relaying info to ditra in my last post I mean't as in to the software itself :)
 
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Peter Mugridge

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Track circuits = low voltage current in the running rails to detect where trains are by means of the train shorting them out.

Yellow grids in the middle of the track = TPWS grids.
 

thefab444

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Some lamp post painter thought it would be funny to adjust a lot of the platform speakers at East Croydon so that they face the sky. :roll: Time to fetch the ladder me thinks!
 
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alexdodds

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Guessing that it was more due to feedback from passengers or staff, as most of the bulidings around the station are offices.

On a side note, does anyone have any of the automated announcements by Phil Sayer in the NE area, for Northern and Arriva Trains Northern services?

I have some announcements from Hexham, MetroCentre, Heworth, Stockton, Redcar Central, Saltburn and Eaglescliffe in my videos.

Aound the UK theres 4 versions of Phil sayers announcements one for stations in the North East, one for West Yorkshire, one for FCC stations and one for Southern, South West Trains and 2 Network Rail stations. Listern to his tone of voice and you will know what i mean.

Ours in the north east is the same one used at London Victoria except that chimes are played.
 

thefab444

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Phil actually provides the voice for two different systems, Ditra and Funkwerk, the former being infintely better, both in operability and in the samples provided by Phil, the Funkwerk voice samples are rather patronising. He also provides a few announcements used on the London Underground on various lines.

The Ditra system used by First Capital Connect (ex-WAGN), South West Trains, Southern and First Great Western (ex-GWT), and also at London Waterloo and Birmingham New Street are broadly similar. Chiltern Railways and some Northern Rail stations (I think SYTPE ones) use a modified version of the same Ditra system. Other Northern Rail stations (particularly those in the NE), and London Victoria, plus the stations around Cambridge, use a very old version of the Ditra system and these are gradually being replaced, but the voice samples are largely the same as the newer systems.

The Funkwerk system is used at WYTPE Northern Rail stations and also on the First Capital Connect Thameslink route. Whilst it features Phil Sayer's voice, the system is entirely different, and in the views not only of the announcement faithful, but the people that actually have to work with it, is vastly inferior to the Ditra system. I believe that Phil was chosen to voice this system because of the positive comments about the Ditra announcements.

With regards clips of Phil in the NE area, Jordy has a large selection and I'm sure he'll be along soon to plug his website. ;)

Phil certainly has quite a cult following and he seems like a genuinely nice chap as well (he's even posted on the Northern Rail forum with some information about his announcements, and to ask for assistance in pronunciations!).
 

Ibex

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This may be a shot in the dark but would anyone here be able to provide a screen shot on here of the Ditra user interface? I have an unfortunate amount of experience now operating the Atos LICC so I'm very curious to see what I'm missing!

Things like train splits are unnecessarily complicated on the Atos system so I'm also interested to see how its done on the Ditra system where the amount of splitters / short platforms is a lot higher.

Oh and what on earth are the Celia announcements at New Street all about?! Rudgeley, Hed-nusfud and Worcester Forgut Street? Bah.
 

thefab444

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Celia has re-recorded a lot of the Birmingham area stations quite recently, "Rudgely" and "Pen... Kridge" have gone. With regards to WOF, I think Fore-gut sounds better than Fore-gate.
 

liam13woll

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Celia has re-recorded a lot of the Birmingham area stations quite recently, "Rudgely" and "Pen... Kridge" have gone. With regards to WOF, I think Fore-gut sounds better than Fore-gate.

On the subject of mispronunciations, I once made a request to Wessex Trains for them to re-record the pronunciations of 'Keynsham' as they are incorrect - it should be 'Canesham' not 'Keensham'.

I received a reply stating that it would be 'prohibitely expensive to rectify' so it wouldn't happen!

To this day it is still announced incorrectly!
 

Peter Mugridge

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Since I had my cochlear implant fitted, I have noticed that on at least one class 458 unit ( maybe all of them??? ) Richmond is pronounced as "Reich-mond!" although the correct "Rich-mond" pronunction is certainly used on the 455s.
 

313103

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On London Overground the announcements on the trains say the stations correctly especially Brondesbury and Brondesbury Park. But when your either at Richmond or Clapham Junction they say Bron-des-bury park and Bron-des-bury obvious that the automated announcement came from someone who was reading off a script. I also note that Imperial Wharf station which opened last September is still not announced at Clapham Junction.
Oh whilst im on this why do the Male announcements always say 'Stratford (London)' and the female announcement just says Stratford. Did the male person think there is going to be a different Stratford after Hackney Wick? Or did he think Startford was in Essex? as the only other Stratford i know is Stratford upon Avon.
 

dan_atki

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On London Overground the announcements on the trains say the stations correctly especially Brondesbury and Brondesbury Park. But when your either at Richmond or Clapham Junction they say Bron-des-bury park and Bron-des-bury obvious that the automated announcement came from someone who was reading off a script. I also note that Imperial Wharf station which opened last September is still not announced at Clapham Junction.

Celia, the female voice, pronounces a lot of places incorrectly. A lot of West Midlands stations were re-recorded when she became an addition at Birmingham New Street because some of them were so far wrong as mentioned above.

A few years ago, South West Trains were keen to sort out 'Micheldever' but it is still incorrect to this day - in case you're wondering the correct pronunciation is 'devver', not 'deever' as she says it (although she is correct on board the trains). Several stations in the Southampton area are also incorrect...

On the other hand, Phil - the male voice - pronounces most places in the south correctly. There are a few minor quibbles such as not making the first 'd' in 'Guildford' silent but are generally more accurate than Celia.

Phil also reported on another forum that as soon as he was made aware that he pronounced a place incorrectly he made his own arrangements with Ditra to rectify the problem! At least he actually cares!

On the Imperial Wharf issue, it has been reported that it is in use correctly at Southern operated stations, but it would appear Clapham Junction is still missing the file. I'm surprised it's taken this long, but then again 'St Pancras International' was missing from Mitcham Junction for quite some time too and Mitcham Eastfields opened without its own name in its system so you got, rather amusingly, '[pause] this is [pause]'.

Missing/corrupt files are, in no ways, rare.

Oh whilst im on this why do the Male announcements always say 'Stratford (London)' and the female announcement just says Stratford. Did the male person think there is going to be a different Stratford after Hackney Wick? Or did he think Startford was in Essex? as the only other Stratford i know is Stratford upon Avon.

This is an interesting one and I've often wondered if the scripts given to both Phil and Celia to record were different or whether it was the choice of Ditra which one to use. I suspect both have recorded both 'Stratford' and 'Stratford London' and then a conscious choice was made as to which one to use in each case.

Stratford is not the only example either. Whitchurch is 'Whitchurch' for Phil and 'Whitchurch Hampshire' for Celia (I would then assume that Phil announces the county for the other one but Celia doesn't... or maybe not! Who knows?). Likewise it's 'Wellington Shropshire' for Phil but just 'Wellington' for Celia.
 

Pumbaa

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Any differences with Preston (Lancs)? Or is that just for ticket issuing purposes?
 

KT4YU

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Clapham Junction isn't missing the file, I got that service yesterday ;)
 

jon0844

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Just come back from Southend on c2c and they've got loads of new announcements to tell people to be quiet and not cause a nuisance, or smoke, or use 'mobile' phones etc.

Now they've put 'mobile' in inverted commas. Why? The announcement speech doesn't pronounce it in any special way (would be funny if it did).

Also, they cleverly created a message to say when leaving boundary zone 6 that Oystercards and Travelcards are not valid any further. Imagine my surprise when it says the exact same thing approaching the station from the other direction. Yes, that's right, Oystercards and Travelcards are not valid from Boundary Zone 6 to Fenchurch Street or Liverpool Street.

Whoops.
 

Ibex

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Not sure on surnames but the bloke is Glyn and the female voice is a woman called Ruth from Truro I believe, she reminds me of actress Lisa Coleman for some reason.

Also, they cleverly created a message to say when leaving boundary zone 6 that Oystercards and Travelcards are not valid any further. Imagine my surprise when it says the exact same thing approaching the station from the other direction. Yes, that's right, Oystercards and Travelcards are not valid from Boundary Zone 6 to Fenchurch Street or Liverpool Street.

Oh dear that doesn't surprise me. It's the same for the LM 350s approaching Harrow, "change here for Bakerloo line services via Queens Park and Paddington, and London Overground services to Wembley Ctl".

Surely that announcement was just intended for the trains into London as nobody in their right mind would stand at Euston, and think hmm I know, I need to go to Oxford so I'll get to Paddington via Harrow & Wealdstone!
 

jon0844

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While one message may be rather pointless, but still valid, the other is just totally incorrect and misleading. Clearly you can use an Oystercard or TC when you enter the zones.
 

KT4YU

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Seems like someone has fiddled around with the Ditra at Clapham Junction, not getting any 'pre-arrival' announcements and seems like they can't be bothered to update the CIS/Ditra when it comes to train lengths, so you end up looking like a right idiot running from the 12 stop point to 4 because the info is wrong. I'm thinking that maybe because this was a Southern Service and Clapham Junction is a SWT station there might be some miscommunication??
 

thefab444

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Probably, the Southern train formations are often incorrect or missing at Clapham Junction.

Not sure why they've changed the format of announcements on platforms 11/12 (the others haven't changed?), it's worked fine for years having pre-arrival/approaching/standing announcements.

I'll add it to the list of issues that I will email SWT about at some point.
 

KT4YU

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It was 13/14 Celia

I wish/hope they decide to use 'x, this is x' standing format and chimes... One other thing I noticed, Celia (same platform) hasn't announced delays/cancellations in months - they are either left, or rarely announced manually!
 
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thefab444

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Ah, that sounds rather odd as it doesn't list the calling pattern for approaching announcements on platform 13 (or platform 9 for that matter). Unless they've changed that as well.
 

KT4YU

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I have a feeling its someone at Platforms 13/14 messing around with the equipment Celia sounds distorted, its like someone has turned up the volume on the Ditra hardware, but kept the amplifier low, so its sounds cracking.. they had Phil on for a while too a few months ago, until someone realised the inconsistency (After a few months!!)...I could go on LOL

I thought that they might have changed it because of the timetable changes and hence an increase in capacity of Southern trains, perhaps this could have led to complications in Ditra's operating capacity at the platforms - i.e. Too many announcements that by the time the standing announcement would come on the train would be long gone!
 
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boing_uk

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Was on a TPE service from Grimsby last Weds which had to reverse out of Doncaster due to a points failure on 3A(?).

Having reversed out of 3 back on to the Scunthorpe branch, the on board announcements got very confused, having taken the changing of ends as being a reset most likely and starting back off at Cleethorpes, as it then announded Doncaster as Grimsby Town.

Around about Mexborough, it obviously picked itself up again as it went through every station from Grimsby to Meadowhall, then got stuck at Meadowhall announcing heffield as Meadowhall, until it pulled in to Sheffield.

Had a few passengers worried thats for sure!
 
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