Autumn refresh for GWR Class 165/166 Turbos

[gallafent]

Oh look, windows open on a unit that has air cooling fitted. If only there were a way to replace the glass, removing the hopper windows. (Cough, Chiltern). Sigh.

 

[4-SUB 4732]

View attachment 120585
View attachment 120586
View attachment 120587
165131 at Paignton Saturday. Looks nice but 2 car train with all that luggage space not needed especially when following 10 minutes after an 800 9 car to Paddington.

So all the folk doing Paignton / Torquay / Abbot / Teignmouth / Dawlish to Exeter will have got the faster 800, and this will be half-empty and still have sufficient luggage for people going to connect with XC or other services? Sounds oddly sensible for the railway to me.

 

[RPI]

Oh look, windows open on a unit that has air cooling fitted. If only there were a way to replace the glass, removing the hopper windows. (Cough, Chiltern). Sigh.

The windows can only be opened with a carriage key, not so much of a huge issue on units with air cooling, its the 166 and 158 units that really suffer when the windows are opened with their air conditioning.

 

[Snow1964]

A year after this thread was opened, there are still a few 166s appearing on my local line that are still in the blue livery with pink doors and have interiors that are fairly tatty.

If the aim was to have the travelling environment as acceptable, the trains that haven’t been done are ruining any overall image (especially as seen to have got even worse than they were in 2021)

 

[3973EXL]

STP 03/10 5Q74 1007 Wolverton - Reading Traincare dep 1002 165109
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:K04338/2022-10-03/detailed

STP 03/10 5Q70 1143 Reading Traincare - Wolverton Caped
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:K04337/2022-10-03/detailed

VSTP 03/10 5Q70 1343 Reading Traincare - Wolverton dep RT 165116
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:84160/2022-10-03/detailed

 

[387star]

STP 03/10 5Q74 1007 Wolverton - Reading Traincare dep 1002 165109
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:K04338/2022-10-03/detailed

STP 03/10 5Q70 1143 Reading Traincare - Wolverton Caped
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:K04337/2022-10-03/detailed

VSTP 03/10 5Q70 1343 Reading Traincare - Wolverton dep RT
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:84160/2022-10-03/detailed

It seems the first class end of the three car 165s has been retained complete with mini tray tables

If the 166 tables are resprayed that will be ridiculous given how they quickly deteriorate. The full size tables on 377s still look good as new. Also no excuse for installing the three missing tables in the centre car

 

[Deepgreen]

I went on a refurbished 165 today (165109). The general impression is very smart, but two issues remain - the ex-first class external doors still had the huge '1' on one door, and the mini tables were yet again coming off the walls! Is it beyond the scope of current technology to fix a small table to a carriage wall so it is sturdy enough to stand up to some abuse?! The first class thing just continues GWR's amazingly lax approach to such signage.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I went on a refurbished 165 today (165109). The general impression is very smart, but two issues remain - the ex-first class external doors still had the huge '1' on one door, and the mini tables were yet again coming off the walls! Is it beyond the scope of current technology to fix a small table to a carriage wall so it is sturdy enough to stand up to some abuse?! The first class thing just continues GWR's amazingly lax approach to such signage.

For all the while they remain working on the North Downs Line, the “1” is supposed to be there

 

[Deepgreen]

For all the while they remain working on the North Downs Line, the “1” is supposed to be there

Why? Hasn't 1st class has been abolished on the route, or is it back yet again? All internal 1st class references have been removed from the unit anyway, including anti-macassars.

Edit - just checked the GWR timetable and, incredibly, it seems that 1st class has been brought back to the route. The farcical saga of first class on the route continues - it has been removed and brought back so many times that passengers presumably cannot keep up with the latest situation - I am a railwayman and I can't! So, we have the situation where the timetable says first class is available but the accommodation is not labelled as such within the train (the refurbishment has removed the labelling just as the facility is supposedly available once again!!) - certainly today on my train school kids were in the so-called first class section and the guard who checked tickets made no comment to them about it. FGW and GWR have made themselves look ludicrous with this repeated change of policy.

 

[Parallel]

Why? Hasn't 1st class has been abolished on the route, or is it back yet again? All internal 1st class references have been removed from the unit anyway, including anti-macassars.

RTT advertises ‘First and standard class available’ for North Downs trains still, though I haven’t checked any timetables to confirm.

 

[Kite159]

.

RTT advertises ‘First and standard class available’ for North Downs trains still, though I haven’t checked any timetables to confirm.

From memory when GWR did away with First Class on the other routes in the Thames Valley they also got rid of first class on the North Downs line but only for the Redhill stoppers. The Gatwick trains kept First Class, until the decision was reversed and the Redhill stoppers gained it back.

 

[Deepgreen]

.

From memory when GWR did away with First Class on the other routes in the Thames Valley they also got rid of first class on the North Downs line but only for the Redhill stoppers. The Gatwick trains kept First Class, until the decision was reversed and the Redhill stoppers gained it back.

It's become a joke, with, I suspect, even the train crews not knowing how things stand with each timetable change, compounded by the lack of consistency in the signing, internal and external. The whole fleet of units has been plagued by first class labelling failures for years. In BR days this would have been unimaginable.

 

[Dai Corner]

It's become a joke, with, I suspect, even the train crews not knowing how things stand with each timetable change, compounded by the lack of consistency in the signing, internal and external. The whole fleet of units has been plagued by first class labelling failures for years. In BR days this would have been unimaginable.

Here's a link to the timetable on GWR's website. All trains are shown as having First Class

https://www.gwr.com/~/media/gwr/pdfs/plan-journey/timetables/2022/train-times-15-may-to-12-dec-2022/t9-train-times-15-may-to-10-dec-22-updated-180522.pdf?la=en

 

[Deepgreen]

Here's a link to the timetable on GWR's website. All trains are shown as having First Class

https://www.gwr.com/~/media/gwr/pdfs/plan-journey/timetables/2022/train-times-15-may-to-12-dec-2022/t9-train-times-15-may-to-10-dec-22-updated-180522.pdf?la=en

Yes, hence my earlier post (no. 609) edit. My point is that the situation has changed so often in recent years that it is now a joke and apparently has left at least some crews confused. Not an indication of a railway under good control.

 

[FenMan]

Yes, hence my earlier post (no. 609) edit. My point is that the situation has changed so often in recent years that it is now a joke and apparently has left at least some crews confused. Not an indication of a railway under good control.

In my experience (I live a 5 minute walk from one of the more major stations on the route), first class on the NDL is pretty much the preserve of teenagers enjoying the comfy seats, particularly when the 1st class section is in the front carriage. I've also seen an occasional traveller who is clearly travelling 1st class tolerating the situation. Clearly it's about through journeys to Gatwick from points west of Reading being charged at inter-city prices - GWR wins for attracting someone prepared to pay for a 1st Class ticket via Reading. The passenger concerned may not be so happy, but GWR have banked the money, so hey ho.

 

[3973EXL]

STP 15/10 5Q74 0827 Wolverton - Reading Traincare Depot Caped
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:K03906/2022-10-15/detailed

VCN 15/10 5Q70 1125 Reading Traincare Depot - Wolverton
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:K03905/2022-10-15/detailed

 

[3973EXL]

STP 24/10 5Q70 1040 Reading Traincare Depot - Wolverton dep 1036 165111 via Heyford
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:K03949/2022-10-24/detailed

STP 24/10 5Q74 1444 Wolverton - Reading Traincare Depot dep 1442 165104 via Acton Wells
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:K03948/2022-10-24/detailed

 

[387star]

What three cars have been done or are in works?
104/109?

 

[FGW_DID]

What three cars have been done or are in works?
104/109?

109 completed
104 at Wolverton (next due back)
116 at Wolverton
111 was touted (still is?) as next to go.

 

[JohnRegular]

Managed to catch two refurbed 166s yesterday, the first of which was the 'preview' refurb unit (apologies, can't remember the unit number but it is in this thread somewhere!). Sat both times in the former first area.

I have to say, in the unrefurbed units I find the former first area to be quite stuffy, the seats in particular feel like they contain decades of dust and detritus. The 'preview' refurb unit has fabric seat covers, which are comfortable and attractive, except that the grey fabric is already looking very badly stained. The other refurbed unit, however, was a real step up; I'm not normally a fan of leather seats but they made the train feel a lot less stuffy, and I'd have been happy to sit there for a long journey.

One thing I did notice, though, was the fabric on the walls was already damaged and fraying, and the tables already had scratches down to the previous finish. Doesn't bode well for the next however many years these will be in service.

 

[158747]

The fabric and leather seats you describe are at opposite ends of 166205. The badly stained fabric seats are in the unclassified former first class area in vehicle 58126 and the leather seats are in the first class area in 58105.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Managed to catch two refurbed 166s yesterday, the first of which was the 'preview' refurb unit (apologies, can't remember the unit number but it is in this thread somewhere!). Sat both times in the former first area.

I have to say, in the unrefurbed units I find the former first area to be quite stuffy, the seats in particular feel like they contain decades of dust and detritus. The 'preview' refurb unit has fabric seat covers, which are comfortable and attractive, except that the grey fabric is already looking very badly stained. The other refurbed unit, however, was a real step up; I'm not normally a fan of leather seats but they made the train feel a lot less stuffy, and I'd have been happy to sit there for a long journey.

One thing I did notice, though, was the fabric on the walls was already damaged and fraying, and the tables already had scratches down to the previous finish. Doesn't bode well for the next however many years these will be in service.

I’m a little confused. The preview 166 is the only 166 with a different interior to that in First Great Western blues and purples, and while it’s easy enough to confuse 166 with 165, there shouldn’t be any leather on a 165?

 

[JohnRegular]

I’m a little confused. The preview 166 is the only 166 with a different interior to that in First Great Western blues and purples, and while it’s easy enough to confuse 166 with 165, there shouldn’t be any leather on a 165?

I'm not keeping up well with the progress of the refurbs, I can only say I was on a 166 which had leather seat covers in the former first class area- here's a picture I took. I didn't get the unit number, but RTT sems to think it was 166205.

 

[Energy]

I didn't get the unit number, but RTT sems to think it was 166205.

166205 is the preview unit.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I'm not keeping up well with the progress of the refurbs, I can only say I was on a 166 which had leather sView attachment 122475eat covers in the former first class area- here's a picture I took. I didn't get the unit number, but RTT sems to think it was 166205.

Yes, the preview unit, so if you went on two refurbished units as you said, the other would not have had leather seating. Unless it was 165109 or an unrefurbished 3 car, there wouldn’t have been any ex-First Class seating at all.

Does anyone have any pictures of the ex-First Class seating in 165109?

 

[TEW]

Yes, the preview unit, so if you went on two refurbished units as you said, the other would not have had leather seating. Unless it was 165109 or an unrefurbished 3 car, there wouldn’t have been any ex-First Class seating at all.

Does anyone have any pictures of the ex-First Class seating in 165109?

I didn't get any photos, but 165109 has the same seat covers in the First Class section as in Standard, and all internal First Class markings have been removed despite it operating a Gatwick Airport service which does convey First Class.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I didn't get any photos, but 165109 has the same seat covers in the First Class section as in Standard, and all internal First Class markings have been removed despite it operating a Gatwick Airport service which does convey First Class.

Great thanks. I wonder if the long abandoned reading lights have been left or reinstated. I assume they’ve not been touched as they’re not really used or needed.

 

[adc82140]

Are the remaining FGW blue livery units getting a repaint as part of this, or is that a different project?

 

[387star]

Great thanks. I wonder if the long abandoned reading lights have been left or reinstated. I assume they’ve not been touched as they’re not really used or needed.

Definitely not. This is a refresh on a budget. Remember the two car 165s have not a singke table which is perfect for a three hour twenty minute train journey

 

[fgwrich]

I didn't get any photos, but 165109 has the same seat covers in the First Class section as in Standard, and all internal First Class markings have been removed despite it operating a Gatwick Airport service which does convey First Class.

Sounds rather like the 769 "first class" then. What have they done with the flooring in it - is it still carpeted or have they stuck the Lino in there?