Autumn refresh for GWR Class 165/166 Turbos

[Jrocks]

Bit random, anyone know what unit was sent from SPM today?

 

[FGW_DID]

Bit random, anyone know what unit was sent from SPM today?

I think 165101 went from SPM and it was 165116 that was outshopped to SPM.

Off the top of my head I think it’s only 101 & 102 out of the 3 car 165s that were over the west, 102 is showing as allocated to jobs today and 101 isn’t so presuming that’s the one that’s gone.

 

[387star]

165116 is working with a two car 165 today on the Portsmouth to Cardiff line. It's old First Class end has no tables but the door actually works automatically. Sadly its only toilet has a door fault.
It seems many three car 165s have no tables in the First Class end and only a few do. Those thar do are repainted but no new ones are being fitted.

 

[387star]

165116 is refurbished

 

[JonathanH]

It seems many three car 165s have no tables in the First Class end and only a few do. Those thar do are repainted but no new ones are being fitted.

No 165s have ever had tables.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

No 165s have ever had tables.

They’ve always had trinket tables (which is still a table, but no they’ve never had big tables), which is what the OP is referring to, however many of these are missing and not necessarily being replaced during refurb.

They’d actually do better getting rid of the trinket tables which can easily be broken off and replacing them with something similar to the HEX cup holders.

 

[JonathanH]

They’d actually do better getting rid of the trinket tables which can easily be broken off and replacing them with something similar to the HEX cup holders.

Yes, or the rather more sturdy triangular tables fitted to the 166s. Shame they didn't manage to source the ones that went for scrap in other units.

It really is one of the worst excesses of the railway that spare parts that could be taken from withdrawn units to enhance units in service aren't transferred.

They’ve always had trinket tables (which is still a table, but no they’ve never had big tables), which is what the OP is referring to, however many of these are missing and not necessarily being replaced during refurb.

Yes, I would hesitate to call that a trinket table, isn't it a trinket tray?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

They’d actually do better getting rid of the trinket tables which can easily be broken off and replacing them with something similar to the HEX cup holders.

Yes, or the rather more sturdy triangular tables fitted to the 166s.

Or, seeing as they’ll soon all be doing the same routes as 166s, can’t they just fit the full size ones at the original First Class end to standardise the product a bit more?

 

[3973EXL]

STP 26/11 5Q70 0800 St Philips Marsh - Wolverton
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:K00847/2022-11-26/detailed

STP 26/11 5Q81 1220 Wolverton - St Philips Marsh
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:K00848/2022-11-26/detailed

 

[FGW_DID]

STP 26/11 5Q70 0800 St Philips Marsh - Wolverton
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:K00847/2022-11-26/detailed

STP 26/11 5Q81 1220 Wolverton - St Philips Marsh
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:K00848/2022-11-26/detailed

165102 > Wolverton
165111 > SPM

 

[387star]

According to another forum class 166s will have (I presume) extra tables fitted on refurbishment
Three large tables (four if tip up seats are removed) missing from the centre coach could easily be refitted

 

[jackot]

According to another forum class 166s will have (I presume) extra tables fitted on refurbishment
Three large tables (four if tip up seats are removed) missing from the centre coach could easily be refitted

If true, that is good to hear. There is certainly room for them, and it would be a nice addition for the longer journeys they now operate.

 

[GeekyJamez]

How about new seats for the 166's? the existing seats are not fit for purpose for long distance journeys,

 

[Anonymous10]

How about new seats for the 166's? the existing seats are not fit for purpose for long distance journeys,

having taken the 165 with same type seating between Bristol parkway and Weymouth then back i dont think the seats are terrible if in airline but they're not ideal

 

[jackot]

How about new seats for the 166's? the existing seats are not fit for purpose for long distance journeys,

Would be lovely for GWR to have kept some Grammer IC3000 seats from the old HSTs as has been mentioned many time before or even for First Group to have kept some of the almost new 442 seats to be put in the 166s but that ship has long sailed. I can't see new seats happening however, despite how unsuitable the current 2+3 seating is on routes exceeding 3 hours. It's planned to be only a light refresh and with the financial situation at the moment I'm surprised to hear about them adding a few tables, so let alone new seats. The 165s that have been refurbished have not had much done, so I would assume the 166s would be of a similar level of upgrade/refresh.

 

[Wolfie]

Would be lovely for GWR to have kept some Grammer IC3000 seats from the old HSTs as has been mentioned many time before or even for First Group to have kept some of the almost new 442 seats to be put in the 166s but that ship has long sailed. I can't see new seats happening however, despite how unsuitable the current 2+3 seating is on routes exceeding 3 hours. It's planned to be only a light refresh and with the financial situation at the moment I'm surprised to hear about them adding a few tables, so let alone new seats. The 165s that have been refurbished have not had much done, so I would assume the 166s would be of a similar level of upgrade/refresh.

I'm sure that l read for the EMU Networkers that there were various mechanical bits under the banks of three seats, hence they couldn't be changed. Is that also the case for the DMUs?

 

[Energy]

I'm sure that l read for the EMU Networkers that there were various mechanical bits under the banks of three seats, hence they couldn't be changed. Is that also the case for the DMUs?

Yes, the chiltern 165s ended up with a 3+2 and 2+2 hybrid layout.

 

[fodphil]

Anyone got anyidea whats happening with 166209, it hasnt turned a wheel in ages

 

[fgwrich]

I'm sure that l read for the EMU Networkers that there were various mechanical bits under the banks of three seats, hence they couldn't be changed. Is that also the case for the DMUs?

Yes, the chiltern 165s ended up with a 3+2 and 2+2 hybrid layout.

The radiator coolant header tanks unfortunately protrude into the saloon, adding to the seat layout.

Would be lovely for GWR to have kept some Grammer IC3000 seats from the old HSTs as has been mentioned many time before or even for First Group to have kept some of the almost new 442 seats to be put in the 166s but that ship has long sailed. I can't see new seats happening however, despite how unsuitable the current 2+3 seating is on routes exceeding 3 hours. It's planned to be only a light refresh and with the financial situation at the moment I'm surprised to hear about them adding a few tables, so let alone new seats. The 165s that have been refurbished have not had much done, so I would assume the 166s would be of a similar level of upgrade/refresh.

Unfortunately, wastage like this seems to be one of the Railways worst pitfalls - seats, tables etc all thrown into the bin. Granted, there would be a cost to storing them (probably very little to negligible) but the amount ending up in the bin over the last few years must be quite high (I'm thinking FGW Standard, GWR First, VTEC Standard, ATW Mk3 standard etc).

 

[HamworthyGoods]

The radiator coolant header tanks unfortunately protrude into the saloon, adding to the seat layout.



Unfortunately, wastage like this seems to be one of the Railways worst pitfalls - seats, tables etc all thrown into the bin. Granted, there would be a cost to storing them (probably very little to negligible) but the amount ending up in the bin over the last few years must be quite high (I'm thinking FGW Standard, GWR First, VTEC Standard, ATW Mk3 standard etc).

Isn’t a very large proportion of what goes into sims recycled?

Would be lovely for GWR to have kept some Grammer IC3000 seats from the old HSTs as has been mentioned many time before or even for First Group to have kept some of the almost new 442 seats to be put in the 166s but that ship has long sailed. I can't see new seats happening however, despite how unsuitable the current 2+3 seating is on routes exceeding 3 hours. It's planned to be only a light refresh and with the financial situation at the moment I'm surprised to hear about them adding a few tables, so let alone new seats. The 165s that have been refurbished have not had much done, so I would assume the 166s would be of a similar level of upgrade/refresh.

I’m not sure the Grammer IC3000 seats could be reconfigured to be used in a 2+3 formation in a turbo?

As the DfT instructed the turbos should remain a 2+3 layout this somewhat renders this solution impractical.

 

[FGW_DID]

Anyone got anyidea whats happening with 166209, it hasnt turned a wheel in ages

Until today…………

Realtime Trains | 5Z74 1000 St Philips Mrsh H S T D to St Philips Mrsh H S T D | 25/11/2022

Real-time train running information for 5Z74 1000 departure from St Philips Mrsh H S T D to St Philips Mrsh H S T D on 25/11/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Presumably it’s been a long term stopper / on exam and the above is some sort of shake down run.

 

[Dai Corner]

Isn’t a very large proportion of what goes into sims recycled?

Not by breaking it up for spare parts, no. As I understand it it's all sent to China in ships and some of it comes back as completely different items.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Not by breaking it up for spare parts, no. As I understand it it's all sent to China in ships and some of it comes back as completely different items.

That’s the purpose of recycling though isn’t it to reuse as something else’s? Think it’s already been proven there was no need to reclaim the seats as nothing suitable to put them in.

 

[Dai Corner]

That’s the purpose of recycling though isn’t it to reuse as something else’s? Think it’s already been proven there was no need to reclaim the seats as nothing suitable to put them in.

Indeed. I was trying to emphasise that Sims don't park the old stock up for weeks or months and let fitters remove parts they might find useful. They're usually in small pieces and on their way within days.

 

[fodphil]

Until today…………

Realtime Trains | 5Z74 1000 St Philips Mrsh H S T D to St Philips Mrsh H S T D | 25/11/2022

Real-time train running information for 5Z74 1000 departure from St Philips Mrsh H S T D to St Philips Mrsh H S T D on 25/11/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Presumably it’s been a long term stopper / on exam and the above is some sort of shake down run.

Thanks

 

[Snow1964]

Anyone got an upto date summary of units, as programme has now been running for over a year.

Still seeing quite a few units painted in purple-blue with pink doors on my line, and internally many seem to be rather tired.

Yesterday I am sure I saw a 5car formation where it seemed to be struggling with only 4, (maybe just 3) cars under power.

 

[jackot]

Anyone got an upto date summary of units, as programme has now been running for over a year.

Still seeing quite a few units painted in purple-blue with pink doors on my line, and internally many seem to be rather tired.

Yesterday I am sure I saw a 5car formation where it seemed to be struggling with only 4, (maybe just 3) cars under power.

Would not surprise me if you did see a 5 car with an engine or two out - the turbos seem to be having real reliability issues recently, with loads of cancellations 'caused by too many of them needing repairs' according to GWR.
Not long ago I was on a 165 on the North Downs with one engine completely idle and another which kept revving up and then going back to idle every time it pulled away, which made us take 1hr 15m to get from Guildford to Gatwick (this was on one of the 'semi-fasts' too!)

As far as repainting them I really don't know what is happening, I presume they will be redone externally when they are brought in for their refresh. It's only a few 166s that are left looking like it.

 

[Deepgreen]

Would not surprise me if you did see a 5 car with an engine or two out - the turbos seem to be having real reliability issues recently, with loads of cancellations 'caused by too many of them needing repairs' according to GWR.
Not long ago I was on a 165 on the North Downs with one engine completely idle and another which kept revving up and then going back to idle every time it pulled away, which made us take 1hr 15m to get from Guildford to Gatwick (this was on one of the 'semi-fasts' too!)

As far as repainting them I really don't know what is happening, I presume they will be redone externally when they are brought in for their refresh. It's only a few 166s that are left looking like it.

I wonder if that was adhesion-related, especially with one engine out (do all engines feed all driving wheels or are they separated)?

 

[Snow1964]

I wonder if that was adhesion-related, especially with one engine out (do all engines feed all driving wheels or are they separated)?

No each engine is only linked to wheels under same vehicle, mechanical by a shaft, unlike electric drive where feed cables might power motors under another vehicle from same transformer/ rectifier

From memory only inner wheels of each bogie are driven, others are unpowered axles.

 

[jackot]

I wonder if that was adhesion-related, especially with one engine out (do all engines feed all driving wheels or are they separated)?

It was doing it for the entire journey. The engine would rev up to a normal rpm pulling away from the station and the revs would stabilise for no more than 10 seconds, before going back to idle. It would then idle for 10-15 seconds and then repeat this for the entire journey (not just after the initial power application leaving the station). It took a good minute to get up to 20mph from being stationary. It felt as if the driver was just going from Notch 0 to 7 then back again. It was last May so can't have been adhesion for the whole trip.