Avanti Class 221s to Cross Country

[absolutelymilk]

Anyone know how many 221s are remaining with Avanti and when the remaining ones will transfer across? According to the 805 thread, all booked services will be 805s from December, so presumably they will have transferred by then.

(I did search for a thread on this topic but could only find closed ones)

 

[158841]

Well I’m still waiting for the first 805 to work the Wrexham General service, do we know when testing begins at least?

 

[Kite159]

Well I’m still waiting for the first 805 to work the Wrexham General service, do we know when testing begins at least?

Unless RTT isn't telling the truth, 805s already work to Wrexham.

Realtime Trains | 1J32 1700 London Euston to Wrexham General and Holyhead | 20/10/2024

Real-time train running information for 1J32 1700 departure from London Euston to Wrexham General and Holyhead on 20/10/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[AJDesiro]

Unless RTT isn't telling the truth, 805s already work to Wrexham.

Realtime Trains | 1J32 1700 London Euston to Wrexham General and Holyhead | 20/10/2024

Real-time train running information for 1J32 1700 departure from London Euston to Wrexham General and Holyhead on 20/10/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

This is correct, there's a diagram each Sunday.

 

[absolutelymilk]

Avanti West Coast's Class 807 makes 'soft' passenger debut between London Euston and Birmingham

According to Rail magazine,

More Class 807s are due to arrive with Avanti in November, and in December all its remaining Class 221 Voyagers will have returned to Beacon Rail ahead of the start of the new timetable.

Good to know my next trip up to Chester won't be in a 221!

 

[poffle]

Avanti West Coast's Class 807 makes 'soft' passenger debut between London Euston and Birmingham

According to Rail magazine,



Good to know my next trip up to Chester won't be in a 221!

But you might find yourself on a delayed two carriage 197 given the track record of the 805s to date.

 

[158841]

This is correct, there's a diagram each Sunday.

Explains why I don’t see it often! Thanks for that

 

[Meyrick]

8 221's, 6 in service and 2 maintenance

 

[357]

Does anyone know how many Avanti 221s are in use with XC? A member of staff has just told me it's only three!

 

[JonathanH]

Does anyone know how many Avanti 221s are in use with XC? A member of staff has just told me it's only three!

Yes, only three - 114-116.

 

[357]

Yes, only three - 114-116.

Wow - considering the shortage of capacity I'd have thought they would have been in use ASAP!

 

[duffield]

So as this thread has been dormant for a while, is there any new information about pending transfers? Any due in the next few months?

 

[swt_passenger]

So as this thread has been dormant for a while, is there any new information about pending transfers? Any due in the next few months?

There’s another significant long running thread and current under the heading “XC Voyager refurbishment”, that effectively includes everything that’s known. The plans were always to take on only 3 former WC units to allow the first 3 XC units to go for refurb on completion of the summer timetable. The rest of the ex-WC units would only be introduced later on. Meanwhile the refurb process has been deferred until Jan 2025.

XC Voyager Refurbishment

In Modern Railways January 2024. Beacon Rail have gone out to tender for XC Voyager refurbishment with 3 companies interested in the work (Alstom probably one of them). Also mentions Beacon Rail considering batteries for the voyagers but ruled out on cost. Not much other detail, but some good...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Zerothebrake!]

Wow - considering the shortage of capacity I'd have thought they would have been in use ASAP!

Nobody wants to pay the lease fees.

 

[Scotrail88]

Is there potential diagram increases as part of Dec changes?

 

[James Kevill]

I've heard that Grand Union's London Euston to Stirling operation was sold to First Group, which was renamed First Rail Stirling Ltd, and the franchise would be called Stirling Trains by First Group, which it's a great branding for Open Access Operator. The operation was de-merged from the London Paddington to Carmarthen operation in Summer 2023, and the two proposed services operating separately. So maybe all of the 18 Class 221 Super Voyagers from Avanti West Coast could be transferred to CrossCountry, and that would make things more interesting.

 

[43096]

I've heard that Grand Union's London Euston to Stirling operation was sold to First Group, which was renamed First Rail Stirling Ltd, and the franchise would be called Stirling Trains by First Group

It isn't a franchise.

 

[JonathanH]

Nobody wants to pay the lease fees.

Or extra staffing costs, cost of diesel, maintenance, track access charges, cleaning, or anything else involved in running the additional trains.

Ironically, could it be that the lease fees, or some sort of retainer, may be something that is actually being paid?

 

[fgwrich]

Either way it's been depressing having to use services down here in the south this week with both XC and SWR short forming. Plenty of 4 cars on the Manchester - Bournemouth's and full and standing. All while at least 3 221s are sat stored in Litchurch Lane.

 

[LittleRedTrain]

Not much good having extra units if they're being locked out of use (or train just cancelled completely) due to lack of staff to crew them!

 

[Wyrleybart]

So maybe all of the 18 Class 221 Super Voyagers from Avanti West Coast could be transferred to CrossCountry, and that would make things more interesting.

Pretty sure nothing has changed from the announcement earlier in the year. It was announced initially that XC would have seven of the twenty ex AWC 221s, then this was raised to twelve. The other eight will be owned by Alstom and (some) of them to be used on the nascent Euston-Wrexham service.

The two 221s leased by Grand Central are at the moment leased up to August 2025.

 

[Mogz]

Extra carriages for the “Sardine Express” that is XC are always to be welcomed, however I (and I’m sure many others) look forward to the day when XC gets something like a bi-mode version of the 807s with 7-9 coaches per set, with their decent table to airline seat ratio, great leg-room and a proper buffet.

But I guess we’ll have to wait until after nationalisation for that…

 

[Wyrleybart]

Extra carriages for the “Sardine Express” that is XC are always to be welcomed, however I (and I’m sure many others) look forward to the day when XC gets something like a bi-mode version of the 807s with 7-9 coaches per set, with their decent table to airline seat ratio, great leg-room and a proper buffet.

But I guess we’ll have to wait until after nationalisation for that…

Frankly I don't think you will ever see anything more than five vehicles in any new train that doesn;t go to / from or through London. I am however sure that whatever brand XC migrates to in GBR eill have Bimode trains eventually.

 

[Bevan Price]

Is DfT likely to want XC to "offload" some 220s when they have received their full complement of 221s ?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Tomorrow I believe is the last day of 221s for Avanti.
Are we aware of which nine will join those that have already gone to CrossCountry yet?

 

[Mogz]

Tomorrow I believe is the last day of 221s for Avanti.
Are we aware of which nine will join those that have already gone to CrossCountry yet?

As a regular user of both services, I can say that they won’t be missed on Avanti, and will be welcomed by CrossCountry!

Even though they’re only replacing the HSTs, XC needs every spare carriage it can get.

Heck, couple up a Parry People Mover or a Pacer to the back of a 4 car Voyager and you’ll be doing us long-suffering XC passengers a favour!

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

As a regular user of both services, I can say that they won’t be missed on Avanti, and will be welcomed by CrossCountry!

Speak for yourself, I’d definitely prefer the 221 over the 805

 

[Mogz]

Speak for yourself, I’d definitely prefer the 221 over the 805

I do!

The 805 and 807 is the best iteration of the 80x series so far, has better leg-room, better window-alignment, a better ratio of tables to airline seats and eliminates diesel running under the wires.

Each to their own…

 

[Bletchleyite]

Speak for yourself, I’d definitely prefer the 221 over the 805

While the Avanti ones were always better than the XC ones, I certainly won't. 80x have (to me) better seats, better legroom, more luggage space, a reservation system that is likely to work more than 50% of the time (once the bugs are ironed out) and a lot more. They're really very nice with a pleasantly low density layout compared with other 80x, and if I recall only two rows of seats per coach lack a window view (plus a few door pocket pairs, but not in every door pocket, most are luggage racks).

Of course they'll be good for XC because *anything* would be good for XC, because their main problem is capacity. Plus (pre refurb) they are in a vastly better condition than XC's own units.

 

[swt_passenger]

Even though they’re only replacing the HSTs, XC needs every spare carriage it can get.

Only the initial 7 units were agreed by DfT to replace the HSTs, but they are now getting 12. But surely XC cannot fail to make visible capacity improvements with 12 units, given that they hardly ever used more than 2 or 3 HSTs, and their network is still smaller than it was a few years ago?