Avanti Class 221s to Cross Country

[Class 317]

More than likely just means lots more 4 car sets on Edinburgh to Plymouth!

Looking on real time trains it shows lots of 5 and double sets on both routes.

 

[Riverside Redz]

More than likely just means lots more 4 car sets on Edinburgh to Plymouth!

Indeed , past couple of days they’ve ran a 10 car on Edinburgh to Plymouth which just seems such a waste. Don’t know all too much about it but seen people say that a coach is locked out of use when this happens. I’m sure there are reasons for it but two 4 car diagrams could have been avoided in my head

 

[voyagerdude220]

Indeed , past couple of days they’ve ran a 10 car on Edinburgh to Plymouth which just seems such a waste. Don’t know all too much about it but seen people say that a coach is locked out of use when this happens. I’m sure there are reasons for it but two 4 car diagrams could have been avoided in my head

I've noticed that myself. Unless Cross Country specifically need to (because of a fault or to position a specific train at a specific depot) have two 5 cars coupled together, I don't see any reason to do so if it needs to have the very rear carriage locked out of use.
Today 06:06 Edinburgh to Plymouth- 10 car.
07:04 Edinburgh to Plymouth- 4 car.
Why not have say 9 cars on the 06:06 and 5 cars on the 07:04?

 

[BorderCollie]

My understanding is that if it's 10 car the whole second unit is locked out of use. Don't think they have SDO?

 

[Halish Railway]

My understanding is that if it's 10 car the whole second unit is locked out of use. Don't think they have SDO?

No it’s the rear car of the train. The rear set would only be locked out if they don’t have a guard/catering assistance to staff it.

The biggest problem with using a pair of 5 cars vice 4+5 is that it takes away a 5 car unit that could have been used in place of a single 4 car. It’s all too common to see both 4 car and 10 car trains on the Edinburgh to Plymouth services.

 

[43055]

I've noticed that myself. Unless Cross Country specifically need to (because of a fault or to position a specific train at a specific depot) have two 5 cars coupled together, I don't see any reason to do so if it needs to have the very rear carriage locked out of use.
Today 06:06 Edinburgh to Plymouth- 10 car.
07:04 Edinburgh to Plymouth- 4 car.
Why not have say 9 cars on the 06:06 and 5 cars on the 07:04?

and the 0807 & 0907 off Edinburgh are also 4 car's! The rest on the NE-SW route being 5 or doubles baring splitting/joining.

 

[Trainman40083]

More than likely just means lots more 4 car sets on Edinburgh to Plymouth!

Or they could be 8 car sets, with 4 locked out

 

[Zerothebrake!]

..and the 06.40 Bristol/ Penzance will be a 4 car (which then forms the 11.15 back through to Edinburgh) as is the 07.04 Edinburgh/Penzance (which returns to Birmingham at 18.13 but this service does attach to another Voyager at Bristol TM northbound).

 

[BorderCollie]

No it’s the rear car of the train. The rear set would only be locked out if they don’t have a guard/catering assistance to staff it.

The biggest problem with using a pair of 5 cars vice 4+5 is that it takes away a 5 car unit that could have been used in place of a single 4 car. It’s all too common to see both 4 car and 10 car trains on the Edinburgh to Plymouth services.

Thanks for clearing that up. Not sure where I previously read that misinformation!

 

[Woolos 22]

There is no cardiff to Edinburgh trains this week because of engerining work between chepstow and Gloucester so they have 2 set available to go on the Plymouth.

 

[357]

guard/catering assistance to staff it.

Catering staff no longer take responsibility for a set on their own - the company has elected to lock out units instead of paying the catering a token amount for the extra responsibility.

 

[Jimini]

Catering staff no longer take responsibility for a set on their own - the company has elected to lock out units instead of paying the catering a token amount for the extra responsibility.

Such a frustrating and huge backwards step, that.

 

[irish_rail]

So this all begs the question why are so many 4 car sets being used on Edinburgh to Plymouth? Yes there are certain doubled up trains, but way too many 4 car sets, and many people cannot plan their journey around the few trains XC want to make proper length. The new Avanti units have been conspicuous by their absence on the Edinburgh to Plymouth run since they first started to be introduced, with Bournemouth to Manchester seemingly favoured for the 5 car sets, and paticularly the far more pleasant ex Avanti 5 car sets.....

 

[voyagerdude220]

There is no cardiff to Edinburgh trains this week because of engerining work between chepstow and Gloucester so they have 2 set available to go on the Plymouth.

Nope, it's running as a double set Edinburgh to Gloucester with one set continuing to Plymouth and the other running empty to Central Rivers.

Northbound it's running as a 4 car Plymouth to Birmingham New Street, with another Voyager attaching at New Street.

 

[357]

Such a frustrating and huge backwards step, that.

It is for everyone - including the staff who now need to lock out sets and work overcrowded half trains.

I was on a unit recently that needed the rear unit locked out of use and it took half an hour to get everyone and their luggage off and onto the front unit.

The new Avanti units have been conspicuous by their absence on the Edinburgh to Plymouth run since they first started to be introduced, with Bournemouth to Manchester seemingly favoured for the 5 car sets, and paticularly the far more pleasant ex Avanti 5 car sets.....

Possibly due to the much lower number of seats? The Avanti units not only have a shop but also have the coach with the all-table seat layout.

Not to mention the amount of space the toilets take up...

Looking at tomorrow's allocations, the final Aberdeen - Penzance has an additional 4 coaches from Newcastle to Bristol.

 

[irish_rail]

Possibly due to the much lower number of seats? The Avanti units not only have a shop but also have the coach with the all-table seat layout.

Not to mention the amount of space the toilets take up...

Fair comment, hadn't realised there was still a coach with bays of 4.

 

[sprinterguy]

So this all begs the question why are so many 4 car sets being used on Edinburgh to Plymouth? Yes there are certain doubled up trains, but way too many 4 car sets, and many people cannot plan their journey around the few trains XC want to make proper length. The new Avanti units have been conspicuous by their absence on the Edinburgh to Plymouth run since they first started to be introduced, with Bournemouth to Manchester seemingly favoured for the 5 car sets, and paticularly the far more pleasant ex Avanti 5 car sets.....

Looking at Realtime Trains, five of the ex-Avanti sets were on SW-NE services yesterday, and the same again today (plus a sixth on a southbound working). Anecdotal travel experience over the past year suggests that the initial three have been fairly randomly distributed on 5 car workings during that time.

There are seven northbound services on the route regularly booked for double sets, well distributed across the day, and at least as many southbound. Of 16 South West - North East departures through Birmingham either yesterday or today, two were single 4-car sets, both at the end of the day.

(At Plymouth, it looks to be one less double set and two additional single 4-cars, due to one that attaches at Birmingham, and another on the last train of the day to Birmingham).

 

[19Gnasher69]

Catering staff no longer take responsibility for a set on their own - the company has elected to lock out units instead of paying the catering a token amount for the extra responsibility.

Anecdotally (from a member of the catering crew) it was an addition of £5 per hour, though I can’t verify that.
Also anecdotally (same source), the catering staff will be balloted for strike action. If this could stop the idiocy of locking sets out of use, it may be a necessary evil.

 

[Zerothebrake!]

The result of the vote was for industrial action and the Management are 'disappointed'.

 

[357]

Also anecdotally (same source), the catering staff will be balloted for strike action. If this could stop the idiocy of locking sets out of use, it may be a necessary evil.

They have been and the vote from all grades was overwhelmingly in support of industrial action.

IMO, if the catering staff are being given the responsibility of the TM in the front unit, they should be paid the same salary.

Anecdotally (from a member of the catering crew) it was an addition of £5 per hour, though I can’t verify that.

That sounds about right. Basically they were being paid the TM hourly wage if they were responsible for a set on their own. The company then removed this enhancement and other overtime incentives that other grades continue to receive.

The result of the vote was for industrial action and the Management are 'disappointed'.

I wonder if they are disappointed because historically catering grades have lower levels of union membership and they were expecting a lack of support from other grades.

 

[yorkie]

Just a gentle reminder, this is a traction & rolling stock thread to discuss updates relating to Avanti Class 221s to Cross Country

To discuss anything else, please create a new thread (or use another thread if there is a suitable one already)

Thanks

 

[dodger]

221110 is now out and about, working 1O06 this morning.

 

[Class 317]

Which units are we waiting to enter service?

 

[sprinterguy]

Which units are we waiting to enter service?

Just 221111 yet to enter service with XC now.

 

[Class 317]

Just 221111 yet to enter service with XC now.

Thanks

 

[voyagerdude220]

I wonder if 221107 is going to be out of service for a few days, after it had it's fire bottles went off in the First Class carriage last Thursday evening at Stafford. It managed to make it's own way towards Central Rivers, all be it on 3 engines.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Disappointing to see 5-car on the Manchester to Bournemouth trains between 10:25 and 15:25.

 

[Halish Railway]

Disappointing to see 5-car on the Manchester to Bournemouth trains between 10:25 and 15:25.

Likewise 1V58 10:07 Edinburgh to Plymouth is only a lone 220 today, having been reliably worked by a pair for years.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Likewise 1V58 10:07 Edinburgh to Plymouth is only a lone 220 today, having been reliably worked by a pair for years.

Is that just short for today though? Likewise with all the aforementioned Manchester to Bournemouth services. It is only the first weekday of the new timetable, in fairness.

 

[A S Leib]

I'm not sure if this is too off-topic, but are there any plans for later last services on the Manchester to Bristol route? 17:00 (14:38 from Paignton) - 20:00 and effectively the same southbound seems early, especially when the last Manchester to Reading's 20:25 / Reading to Manchester's 20:42.