Avanti First Class

[Essexman]

Complaint going to Avanti today (once I can get an email address as their online form won't accept my complaint saying use proper characters.

I wish to make a complaint about provision of First Class seating on your trains.

Returning from Shrewsbury to London today I travelled on the train which left Wolverhampton at 12.15. I had a First Class ticket which had cost me a considerable sum but the only portion of the train for First Class passengers appeared to be the front half coach. There were 14 passengers here, few spare seats and no spare forward facing seats. I therefore sat in the next coach which was Standard Premium.

When the Train Manager checked my ticket he advised that the six seats at the front of the Standard Premier were also for First Class passengers and that if I sat there he would ask the host to take my order for food. The host duly arrived but there was only one choice of food available from the menu, however I did enjoy this.

There were just 7 passengers well spread out in the 2 coaches that Avanti designated Standard Premium and 14 First Class passengers squeezed into the half coach allocated to them.

The First Class passengers will have paid expensive fares for this privilege. This was a Sunday morning. I’m sure more passengers would wish to travel First Class in the week.

Do Avanti no longer want those customers willing to pay a considerably higher fare for First Class travel?

I would add that your on-train staff were excellent but the service they can offer is constrained by Avanti’s policy on First Class.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

I’m not quite sure what you are complaining about here? The lack of menu choices seems to be your bugbear?

You confirm enough first class seating was provided for everyone on the train, you are also correct more passengers travel in first class during the week, in the week more first class accommodation is provided.

 

[jfollows]

Whilst I understand that you were disappointed with your experience of travelling First Class with Avanti, you had a seat and you had at-seat service.
My conclusion for some while now is that what Avanti offers in First Class is not worth paying for, and I have voted with my feet. I don't see the point in complaining about receiving what you paid for and what was advertised - it's mediocre, but it's not bad.
If you're lucky your complaint will result in some token recompense, so that'll make you happy, but given the general way the service is operated I think it's more likely you'll get a short response with no real substance.
What exactly do you think you'll get from this complaint, and what exactly do you think you ought to get? At the very least you should end up asking for something rather than just sending in a long moan.

 

[Essexman]

I wasn't looking for any compensation.
I simply wanted to register my complaint that the split of first class & standard premium accommodation meant that those paying more money for first class had a less comfortable environment than those in standard premium. Hence, if this is typical, Avanti either need to increase the number of first class seats or lose the extra income these passengers provide.

 

[jfollows]

I wasn't looking for any compensation.
I simply wanted to register my complaint that the split of first class & standard premium accommodation meant that those paying more money for first class had a less comfortable environment than those in standard premium. Hence, if this is typical, Avanti either need to increase the number of first class seats or lose the extra income these passengers provide.

I think it's typical and I don't see that Avanti cares about it, so you're certainly right that if you and people who think similarly complain it might make a difference.
I think Avanti can't be bothered with First Class and would like to get rid of it, but of course they like the ££££ that some people still pay for it. They could then halve the number of staff they need for a train.
As I say, I've given up with them already.

 

[Essexman]

I rarely use Avanti now.
For the North West I tend to use LNWR to Crewe then change for Manchester or Liverpool. It takes an hour longer but is so much cheaper.
For Scotland it's always LNER or the sleeper.

 

[Trilby]

Trying to book a London to Liverpool train recently I found that the first nine seats in Standard Premium (H1 to H9) now aren't available for reservation either with a Standard Premium or First Class booking. Are these now considered First Class but intentionally not available for reservation? Or can the seat picker just not handle coaches being split between two different classes?

Edit: Looking further it seems that seats 1 to 9 are now unreservable in every coach of every Avanti train, so it's not just related to First Class. This seems to be a recent change, does anyone know why that might have happened?

 

[Obobru]

Have to agree limiting first class to just coach K at weekends is awful service. All seats bar 2 face backwards, I get travel sick facing backwards I would rather stand but when I am paying more than the 3 coaches of Standard Premium who can face forwards to sit in for me what is an inferior seat that's not acceptable as I am paying a huge premium for a sandwich and can of pepsi where as before I was paying a premium for a better seat.

If they can't offer first class passengers seats facing the direction of travel at the weekends scrap first class and stop seat service and make it all premium seating rather than offering an expensive inferior product, this isn't the days of £10 weekend upgrades when the price justified less.

 

[greyman42]

There were 14 passengers here, few spare seats and no spare forward facing seats.

The fact that there were no forward facing seats is neither here nor there.

 

[greyman42]

All seats bar 2 face backwards,

That will depend on what direction the train is travelling.

 

[Trackman]

Edit: Looking further it seems that seats 1 to 9 are now unreservable in every coach of every Avanti train, so it's not just related to First Class. This seems to be a recent change, does anyone know why that might have happened?

Superfare space?
I think the max reservation is 9, so would make sense.

 

[Falcon1200]

There were 14 passengers here, few spare seats and no spare forward facing seats.

Having spare seats in First Class (or any class) is nice, but is not a right and cannot be an expectation.

My conclusion for some while now is that what Avanti offers in First Class is not worth paying for

I agree 100%! I used to book good value First Class Advance fares for family members between London and Scotland, however on the most recent trip First Class was 4 times the price of Standard Premium, so the latter was where they sat.

Have to agree limiting first class to just coach K at weekends is awful service.

It does depend on the train of course; On Saturday 17th June I travelled from Crewe to Glasgow, expecting all parts of the train to be extremely busy, but coach K had plenty of seats, and on arrival at Central there were only myself and one other passenger there (perhaps as a result of what @jfollows and I said above).
.

 

[Andy Pacer]

Just a quick question, am I right in thinking on a Pendolino coach K is the only First Class coach on a weekend, but on weekdays Coach J is also First?

 

[dave87016]

Just a quick question, am I right in thinking on a Pendolino coach K is the only First Class coach on a weekend, but on weekdays Coach J is also First?

You are indeed correct

 

[75A]

Surely in this 'enlightened' world in which we live, first class should be abolished leaving more seats available to everyone else.
Just a thought.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Surely in this 'enlightened' world in which we live, first class should be abolished leaving more seats available to everyone else.
Just a thought.

The 11 car refurb is reducing 1st to 3 vehicles (2.5, realistically).

 

[greyman42]

Surely in this 'enlightened' world in which we live, first class should be abolished leaving more seats available to everyone else.
Just a thought.

I don't know what you mean by "enlightened" but first class brings in plenty of revenue.

 

[Hadders]

Surely in this 'enlightened' world in which we live, first class should be abolished leaving more seats available to everyone else.
Just a thought.

No.

We don't make everyone purchase the bottom of the range car, why shouldn't someone be able to pay more to travel in greater comfort and with more space?

 

[RailWonderer]

The 11 car refurb is reducing 1st to 3 vehicles (2.5, realistically).

It's crazy to think some of those were originally 8 carriage trains with 4 carriages of first. Virgin seriously thought nearly half of all passengers would travel in first. As for Avanti, they've driven frist class into the ground so no wander the demand has fallen for them to reduce it further. They've only sabotaged themselves with inferior catering, higher pricing and a lack of a weekend upgrade besides daily Seatfrog auctions.

 

[dave87016]

Avanti really need to understand first class now especially seeing as people who travel first class want the food and drink otherwise they would book and travel standard premium as that offers the same but without food and drinks.

The main thing they need to grasp is that food and drink are no longer complimentary and that passengers pay fairly high prices for first class and as such the service should reflect this

As I commented on my own first class thread Wednesdays first class service was brilliant ok fairly small portions but I couldn’t fault what I was offered or the staff especially on the return journey there is only one person that does the entire first class service on the 18:40pm departure from Glasgow ( at least as far as Preston where I alight )

 

[voyagerdude220]

Just a quick post to say I've noticed that Avanti have uploaded their First Class menu which will start at the end of the month.
A subtle difference I've noticed in the Full English Breakfast is Black Pudding being removed and the addition of "Potato Bits."

Still a reduced level of food service being offered at weekends, despite the cost of upgrading to First Class at weekends no longer being cheaper than during the week.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Still a reduced level of food service being offered at weekends, despite the cost of upgrading to First Class at weekends no longer being cheaper than during the week.

I will admit I don't wholly understand why they don't offer Standard Premium only at weekends rather than both classes. The only difference between 1st and SP is the food service, and so if that isn't spectacular what's the point?

 

[voyagerdude220]

I will admit I don't wholly understand why they don't offer Standard Premium only at weekends rather than both classes. The only difference between 1st and SP is the food service, and so if that isn't spectacular what's the point?

I strongly agree with you. Particularly if First Class passengers end up being crammed into coach K together, with few spare seats, whilst at the same time the Standard Premium carriages are far quieter.

 

[voyagerdude220]

I've had a quick look at examples online of the differences in price between SP and First Class randomly on Saturday 11th November Manchester to London and also Preston to London:

14:55 and 15:15 Manchester to Euston £57 SP, £114 First.
14:01 and 15:01 Preston to Euston £62 SP, £180 First.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I've had a quick look at examples online of the differences in price between SP and First Class randomly on Saturday 11th November Manchester to London and also Preston to London:

14:55 and 15:15 Manchester to Euston £57 SP, £114 First.
14:01 and 15:01 Preston to Euston £62 SP, £180 First.

You can buy a lot of M&S butties for that!

I could understand if 1st was something special like Trenitalia Executive Class (1+1 armchairs), it is a shame they didn't import the concepts properly from Italy.

 

[Vespa]

I used to travel to London a lot in first class using my disabled railcard to get £75 return Virgin trains and Avanti continued this shortly after they took over, it all changed when the last time I booked a FC return it was increased to £135 return with DSB discount, they made it awkward for me to enter the Euston lounge as well, they also rationed the coffee you can have, it soured the FC experience ......

Since then I've switched to LNWR cheaper and much more comfortable seats without needing to go first class all for 1 hour longer and changing at Crewe, I can put up with it for the cheap fare and no expectations to be disappointed by.

*The only time I travel with Avanti is if I'm in a rush so trading money for time in standard class.

 

[Bishopstone]

I will admit I don't wholly understand why they don't offer Standard Premium only at weekends rather than both classes. The only difference between 1st and SP is the food service, and so if that isn't spectacular what's the point?

- There may be some first class season ticket holders out there, who use the service at the weekend, and the operator would need to decide how to compensate them if 1st were to become a 5 day per week offer, not 7 days per week. I suppose, in theory, you could get round this by calling the SP offer 'First Class' at the weekends only, but this would cause much confusion all round
- There would be implications for on-train staffing - either fewer people rostered at weekends, or asked to undertake new roles. In other industries this would no doubt be managed without much fuss, but this is the railway, so the process would be fraught
- Maybe 1st makes decent money at the weekend given the fares charged, reduced menu, and reduced staffing for coach K service only? I note that whilst contributors to this thread flinch at paying £180, there is also mention of people being 'crammed in' to coach K. ('No wonder nobody uses this service, it's always too busy' etc...)

 

[Scotrail314209]

My recent experience from Preston to Glasgow at the start of October had no first class service at all, or any announcements from the TM. I subsequently complained and received a reply yesterday and Avanti gave me 25% off my next journey, when I was expecting them to just refund the difference between Standard Premium and First Class.

Very pleased with the outcome, however whenever I travel First with Avanti it always seems to be pretty good value. Imo the offering is far superior to that of LNER, who have overcomplicated things slightly by offering four different menus. I also prefer the newly refurbished Pendolino interior to that of LNER's Azumas, it seems more comfortable and cosy. But whenever an unrefurbished 9 car set shows up, you can see how stark the contrast is as the Virgin interior really does look battered now.