Avanti planning to scrap the quiet carriage?

[WestCoastMain]

The train manager on a recent journey told me that Avanti are "planning to do away with the quiet carriage".
I wonder why and for whose benefit.
Personally I like the long established policy of offering passengers the choice of quiet or not.
What do other Avanti customers think?

 

[Peregrine 4903]

I mean its not exactly properly enforced, and too be honest, I rarely notice a difference in noise between the different standard class carriages.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

I have heard that Avanti are planning to do away with the quiet carriage

Welcome to the forum!

Interesting. Where have you heard that?

 

[Bald Rick]

Interesting. Where have you heard that?

Presumably not in the quiet coach...

 

[Peter0124]

Really hope this doesn't happen! I think it should be enforced more as the thought of being stuck in a very noisy coach (suffer with sensory problems and can sometimes get distressed) for hours would be awful.

 

[mikeg]

I too really hope it doesn't disappear.
I was on a train in the Netherlands in the quiet carriage over a year ago. A Spanish family were talking loudly to one another. A member of the train crew pointed to the 'silence - stiljte' signs and said "this is the quiet carriage - you have to be quiet - I wouldn't want you to get a penalty".
Perhaps this is what's needed here, though it would involve changing the byelaws.
They should also enforce the rules against playing music out loud too if you ask me, especially given that this is already enforceable.

 

[Class800]

I once asked East Coast as it was then about why the guard did nothing when there was disturbance in the quiet coach, and the customer service respond was that there was nothing in the conditions of carriage that would allow the guard to intervene in such circumstances - it was merely a company advisory scheme

 

[Jim the Jim]

I have the impression loud phone calls aren't the problem they once were - perhaps people have adjusted more to talking at a normal volume. What is a problem are people playing music or videos without (or with ineffective) headphones - but that should be banned on the whole train, not just part of it.

 

[voyagerdude220]

Sadly the quiet zone is something I miss when travelling First Class on Pendolino services.

 

[ChrisC]

I have the impression loud phone calls aren't the problem they once were - perhaps people have adjusted more to talking at a normal volume. What is a problem are people playing music or videos without (or with ineffective) headphones - but that should be banned on the whole train, not just part of it.

It’s loud hands free phone calls which is currently the biggest annoyance to me on all forms of public transport. People board the train or bus talking in a loud voice and continue it during their journey. In addition to the annoyance they just look so silly as though they are talking to themselves in a very loud voice. They sit there talking in a very loud voice completely oblivious to those around them who might be trying to have a normal conversation at a reasonable volume.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I have the impression loud phone calls aren't the problem they once were - perhaps people have adjusted more to talking at a normal volume.

And most people are sending some sort of text message, not making phone calls.

What is a problem are people playing music or videos without (or with ineffective) headphones - but that should be banned on the whole train, not just part of it.

The Byelaws could do with being changed to remove the bit about causing an annoyance, it should be absolute that playing any sound from an electronic device such that it is audible by others for the purposes of entertainment is an offence. And yes, staff should enforce it without being asked to do so.

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

Perhaps the quiet carriages could be dropped, but Noisy Carriages could be introduced. I think noisy people are a fairly small minority. Then quiet could be normal.

I wonder if disturbance on trains is a bit less now than a few years ago, people write instead of barking down the phone.

 

[pdeaves]

I wonder if disturbance on trains is a bit less now than a few years ago, people write instead of barking down the phone.

Not 'less' but different, in my experience. Not as many shouty-down-the-phone (there are still some) but more 'play computer game or video loudly without headphones'. That bugs me more!

 

[hkstudent]

Or maybe something more radical to be introduced? Like by-laws banning all annoying or excessive noise to be made on trains, including party-making, or broadcasting large volume from devices on trains?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Perhaps the quiet carriages could be dropped, but Noisy Carriages could be introduced. I think noisy people are a fairly small minority. Then quiet could be normal.

Providing dedicated family coaches would probably deal with most of this, and would be better for families, too, as they could have features that suit them e.g. bay seating with smaller tables (so kids can play on the floor if they wish), play areas, decoration etc.

I wonder if disturbance on trains is a bit less now than a few years ago, people write instead of barking down the phone.

That's certainly my observation. People making actual voice calls on a train are a rarety now. Mobile phones are mostly used for text communication.

Or maybe something more radical to be introduced? Like by-laws banning all annoying or excessive noise to be made on trains, including party-making, or broadcasting large volume from devices on trains?

There is already a Byelaw preventing playing of music etc out loud if it is to someone's annoyance. The problem with this is that it means you can't enforce it unless a complaint is made, and some may not feel safe to make the complaint. I think that should be removed, so it is an offence to play a device out loud full stop.

 

[irish_rail]

Get rid. Its 2021. People need to stay in touch. Not all phone calls are annoying and loud. Absolutely hate it when I realise I've ended up in there.

 

[najaB]

I think that should be removed, so it is an offence to play a device out loud full stop.

Define "loud".

 

[dk1]

Personally I've always found them more trouble than they are worth. Causes unnecessary arguments & grief for the traincrew.

 

[centraltrains]

What is a problem are people playing music or videos without (or with ineffective) headphones - but that should be banned on the whole train, not just part of it.

Could this already be enforceable under the byelaw 7) 1) ii) ?

Except with written permission from an Operator no person on the railway shall, to the annoyance of any person: (i) sing; or (ii) use any instrument, article or equipment for the production or reproduction of sound

Although if interpreted in a personal way, rather than at busking, even playing music through headphones inaudible to others would break them.

 

[bramling]

Personally I've always found them more trouble than they are worth. Causes unnecessary arguments & grief for the traincrew.

A lot of that could be eased if the operators would (1) not book people in there when they’ve not requested it, (2) make clear what is acceptable in there and what isn’t, and (3) make it very clear that one is in a quiet carriage.

Many of the TOCs simply have non conspicuous signs just stating “quiet carriage”, perhaps backed up by the odd announcement. This is always going to cause problems.

It does depend on area too. Anyone even daring to scrunch a sweet paper on Chiltern will, in my experience, find themselves on the receiving end of numerous dagger states very quickly!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Define "loud".

Such that it is audible to any other passenger or member of traincrew.

 

[miami]

it should be absolute that playing any sound from an electronic device such that it is audible by others for the purposes of entertainment is an offence

So my zoom meeting is fine then?

 

[najaB]

Such that it is audible to any other passenger or member of traincrew.

So it still requires someone to be annoyed - the only change is that you would explicitly say that it can be staff or passenger.

 

[Class 466]

I'm all for keeping a quiet coach, last thing I want is to end up in a coach filled with screaming kids for example.

 

[Bletchleyite]

So my zoom meeting is fine then?

How exactly are you able to conduct a Zoom meeting without sound* being played from an electronc** device, then?

* People talking
** Laptop or whatever

 

[najaB]

How exactly are you able to conduct a Zoom meeting without sound* being played from an electronc** device, then?

I think the point being made is that Zoom meetings are rarely entertaining.

 

[Bletchleyite]

So it still requires someone to be annoyed - the only change is that you would explicitly say that it can be staff or passenger.

No, it requires someone to hear it, e.g. the guard walking through. The "annoyance" bit is a higher bar and effectively requires a passenger to complain and state their annoyance, which could result in them receiving abuse once the member of staff went away and thus being reluctant to complain even though they are annoyed.

I think the point being made is that Zoom meetings are rarely entertaining.

Well, there is that Handforth Parish Council one

I think the wording is a little moot, though. It's clear what we want to ban (using electronic devices without headphones or having the volume on headphones so loud that others can hear), and what we don't (the occasional ringtone for a short time or the barely-audible other side of a phone conversation), so I'm sure a lawyer can write a suitable law for that. The problem is the "annoyance" bit, which basically requires a complaint to be made. It's essentially about dealing with rude, inconsiderate people who think it's OK to do stuff like watch films out loud or have phone conversations on speaker, but ensuring that people don't have to single themselves out for potential abuse by the perpetrator by making a complaint to deal with it.

 

[najaB]

No, it requires someone to hear it, e.g. the guard walking through. The "annoyance" bit is a higher bar and effectively requires a passenger to complain and state their annoyance, which could result in them receiving abuse once the member of staff went away and thus being reluctant to complain even though they are annoyed.

So exactly what I said. You're just spelling out that a staff member can act without a passenger making a complaint.

 

[Bletchleyite]

So exactly what I said. You're just spelling out that a staff member can act without a passenger making a complaint.

Only if they are annoyed by it. Which they might not be.

It needs to be more strict-liability than that, and staff need to be told to enforce it if they hear it, not solely if there is an annoyance being caused.

It amazes me that anyone thinks playing stuff out loud on public transport is acceptable, but then it also amazes me that anyone thinks fare-dodging is OK when they wouldn't nick a can of Coke from Tesco.

 

[najaB]

Only if they are annoyed by it. Which they might not be.

Which is actually a more reasonable position. For example, if there aren't any other passengers around, what is the harm? (George Berkeley would be proud...)

Your version would require the traincrew to take action.