HamworthyGoods
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3 round trips Liverpool / Euston cancelled
4 round trips Manchester / Euston cancelled
2 round trips Preston / Euston cancelled
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Avanti Sunday Cancellations
- Thread starter peter166
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3 round trips Liverpool / Euston cancelled
4 round trips Manchester / Euston cancelled
2 round trips Preston / Euston cancelled
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I’m fairness there’s only about 20% at your depot that actually do anything.
I’ve heard since the RMT announced their intention to ballot staff, the company stance is they’d rather cancel a train than pay the TM overtime.
Liverpool only get mostly one service an hour to/from Euston as it is with loads cancelled. It's not like it can be reduced from 2 or 3 an hour and it's always full. On Saturday they only ran one or two trains after 5pm to Lime Street and both were initially cancelled (not sure if the last train did run in the end).
It's not just Sundays now though. Saturday services are battered with cancellations later in the day now.
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class ep-09
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As if stopping testing suddenly made people feeling sick, better in an instant .
If a train crew is not fit for duty that crew is to stay st home , period .
Andypandy1968
On Moderation
They are fit for duty! Or do they all go sick when they have a common cold??
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HamworthyGoods
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You are overlooking the fact that government advice is to stay at home, that means they are not fit for duty. You may have your own opinions but the majority of people will revert to follow government guidance.
The current covid variants effects include headaches and inability to concentrate, do you really want someone driving a train a 125mph without full concentration, I doubt it.
Covid isn’t quite a common cold, it may be on grounds of risk of death but certainly isn’t in terms of side affects.
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dk1
Veteran Member
If having symptoms then test. If it shows positive you stay at home. It’s just following government & employer advice.
Operating trains isn’t the kind of job you can do when you’re feeling in any way impaired. Are you this annoyed about staff in other industries following official advice, or only traincrew?
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Dieseldriver
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I think we both know the answer to that…. I feel like maybe the Dailymail comments page is down at the moment?
class ep-09
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No, they are not fit for duty if feeling unwell, period.
It looks as if in your world? even someone with broken leg would be a wimp if not turning up to work .
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whoosh
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Is it the school holidays?
Does that mean that the annual leave quota for Saturday is likely to be full?
Does it mean less RDW volunteers for Saturday, and less volunteers for an 'extra' Sunday - a Sunday not already rostered?
Is there a fair amount of people off sick because we are still coping with a viral pandemic?
Were TOCs already a bit short staffed?
Have TOCs fallen behind in recruitment and training during the pandemic?
Have TOCs (and the DfT) messed traincrew around for months on end with emergency or temporary timetables that have duties that are different to the booked Long Term Planning duties in the base roster, which have led to staff enduring frequent alterations to start and finish times, with consequent effects on their home life?
Are there, therefore, less able, and less willing, staff available this weekend to work a Sunday for flat rate?
Is it really a surprise then when trains get cancelled?
<I answered "YES" to all but the last question.
What about you?>
Does that mean that the annual leave quota for Saturday is likely to be full?
Does it mean less RDW volunteers for Saturday, and less volunteers for an 'extra' Sunday - a Sunday not already rostered?
Is there a fair amount of people off sick because we are still coping with a viral pandemic?
Were TOCs already a bit short staffed?
Have TOCs fallen behind in recruitment and training during the pandemic?
Have TOCs (and the DfT) messed traincrew around for months on end with emergency or temporary timetables that have duties that are different to the booked Long Term Planning duties in the base roster, which have led to staff enduring frequent alterations to start and finish times, with consequent effects on their home life?
Are there, therefore, less able, and less willing, staff available this weekend to work a Sunday for flat rate?
Is it really a surprise then when trains get cancelled?
<I answered "YES" to all but the last question.
What about you?>
D1537
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I had Covid last week and I was in no condition to do much except sit on the sofa and surf the Internet, let alone drive a train. And that's coming from someone who's had precisely one day off sick in the last five years.
As it happens, our workplace has specifically banned anyone who has tested positive for Covid from returning until they test negative, but even if I felt OK I would also feel very unhappy about going to work whilst still positive, especially as I work with some people who are vulnerable.
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This comment has been left there now and doesn’t need to be replied to again.
Let’s keep things respectful from here please everyone.
Thanks.
bramling
Veteran Member
Round my way, the issue isn't so much people being off sick with Covid, but more people being off sick claiming they have Covid when it subsequently turns out they don't ... which mysteriously seemed to happen to a disproportionate number of people over the Christmas Eve - Boxing Day period just gone!
The problem is Covid needs to be treated like any other issue which makes people unfit for work, but we don't seem to be at that point yet. Hence it remains very easy for people so inclined to play the system.
All true. Quite simply what needs to happen is for Covid to start to be treated as any other illness and absence at work policies applied accordingly. Currently most employers don’t apply them for “Covid related absence”, which has made the pandemic something of a skivers’ charter. That isn’t limited to the railway of course and indeed has affected all industries.
Based on where I am the railway’s current short staffing is more down to:
A. Insufficient staff in the first place;
B. A *huge* training backlog;
C. Retirements being brought forward in an already age-top-heavy workforce.
The removal of free testing was a major step towards normality. In the meantime people can hardly be blamed for following the official government advice which, in many cases, is echoed by employers.
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Nicholas Lewis
Established Member
far fewer cancellations today suggests its not sickness related
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Can you clarify that please? Are you implying that "pulling a sickie" is acceptable? Because, if so, do that too many times and you will rightly be sacked.
He probably just means enjoying his time off when he’s not rostered to work, rather than coming in and doing endless overtime.
If you’re ill, it’s generally considered acceptable, yes
.Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Yes, that is up to him, but it didn't read that way.
If you’re ill, it’s generally considered acceptable, yes
"Pulling a sickie" means claiming you were sick when you weren't. If actually sick, it's just being off sick.
To be fair to moonshot he’s not one for being off sick.
bramling
Veteran Member
My place has all three of those, and we’re starting to also see a
D. People leaving because they’re hacked off.
It’s certainly interesting to observe that my place has plenty of people who’ve lost no time to Covid at all, meanwhile there’s others who have a Covid scare every other week.
There are a few Avanti cancellations kicking about again tonight. I'm not travelling (fortunately), but the usual 2139 last actual proper express was cancelled (due Brum @ 2318), and the Avanti rattler that leaves at 2230 is running 20 or so mins late, now due at Brum at 0053.
I'd imagine there are a fair few less than happy campers on that train!
I'd imagine there are a fair few less than happy campers on that train!
Sorry, I'm extremely anti restrictions (these days at least) as much as anyone but I really don't think you are getting that even a 'mild' covid infection can be extremely debilitating. I've never been off sick for flu/cold for more than a day ever, and I was laid up in bed for nearly a week with covid, despite having 3 vaccines. Many of my friends (late 20s/early 30s) were the same.
My guess for the next 5-10 years (maybe shorter, maybe longer?) we are going to basically see recurrent (maybe every 6 months?) covid infections which take people out for a few days. Illness is going to basically 'permentantly' be higher, especially in safety critical jobs.
I don't disagree some people are taking the proverbial, but the railway/economy at large is going to need to adjust to much higher levels of sickness for the next few years, I think.
I didn't do a test when I had it recently, but I felt ill enough to be off sick (not terrible, but fairly bad and I haven't taken a sick day in years) In fact, it was only the next day that I did a test and it then turned out to be Covid - I thought it was just a heavy cold going around. My employer wants to be sure I am still not infectious before going back which is playing it rather on the safe side, but reasonable. I don't doubt some are playing a game, but that being said with the severe headache, achiness and cold I had, I don't think I could have worked on-board (can't speak for driving never done it) a train!
Anyway, normally a row of weekends hits a trough at some point with the worst cancellation week, so we'll have to see when that is.
Don't want to make this a Covid thread, but probably yearly boosters or something similar, like the flu jab that I think all TOCs have the opportunity to give employees for free. That's another cost to consider.
It very much depends on who you know. I can honestly say I know as many people who have felt very ill after the vaccine as have been knocked out by Covid. Equally I suspect a high % of the current absences are due to other illnesses biting people a lot harder as a result of being out of circulation for two years. Case in point, I was the most unwell I have been for years a few months ago, ironically with Covid like symptoms, but tested negative.
We simply need to regard it as just another illness. Of course if people are too ill to work they should be off sick but I’m not sure there’s much of a case for continuing to disapply attendance at work policies in relation to Covid now that approaching 100% of the working population will have at least some immunity, whether from vaccines, prior infection(s) or both.
Of course none of this is helped by the fact that railway work is inherently unhealthy. A very high % of the driver population especially is obese, 40+, with many having some pretty appalling habits such as eating junk food late at night, smoking etc. and generally not looking after their health.
I omitted to mention several recent cases of that where I am too, including a few to a certain TOC relevant to this thread! In our case it’s down to a combination of salary not being particularly competitive, IR issues contributing to a bad atmosphere, and the work getting significantly more intensive with much earlier starts and later finishes.
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Which is why there is a managing for absence policy. Whether you think pulling a sickie is acceptable or not, the fact is that it happens in all industries. That's the reality.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
It is, but it is fraud (because the sick pay is obtained by lying; it would be unpaid or annual leave were it taken honestly) and deserves to be treated most seriously. I also rather hope Unions provide only procedural support (i.e. due process followed) in such cases because otherwise they are complicit.
Has anyone ever been prosecuted for fraud for “pulling a sickie” as you call it? I’d suggest this isn’t something that happens in the real world. If they’re caught it might lead to dismissal for gross misconduct, but even that is extremely difficult to prove absent someone doing something very clear cut eg saying they’re ill and then being photographed abroad on holiday (which has happened). And yes procedural support would be offered by the union.
There are robust attendance at work policies in place to mitigate against absence of all kinds, even where people aren’t caught blatantly abusing the system. Indeed these systems can often penalise people for perfectly legitimate absence. Employers who experience a high degree of sickness absence should also be asking themselves why that is as it suggests a disengaged and dissatisfied workforce.
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Exactly this - I'd bet that those companies that treat their employees well have low sickness records.
Geezertronic
Established Member
Do staff who test positive for COVID have to register their test results via the NHS website as per before, then provide their employer with the email/text proof of testing positive?
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