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Avanti to Preston and middle of the night cab to Edinburgh

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brad465

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An interesting thread on Twitter from user James Noksie, detailing how his train was cancelled at Preston, other evening services were either full or also cancelled, so cabs were raked in to get all passengers onwards. He made it okay and looks like he'll get a full ticket refund, but documenting the cab experience will no doubt be the latest in a long line of those questioning why cab transport is used for such long journeys, and whether cab driver welfare is taken into account:


I’m not quite sure how to explain what’s happened tonight, because it’s still happening - but here goes… At 4:40pm I jumped on a train from London to Edinburgh.. It was comfy, it was quiet In hindsight, too good to last…

Continued
 
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bspahh

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This is the thread in one page

Realtimetrains says "This service was cancelled between Preston and Edinburgh due to a problem with the track (IS)."
 

Bletchleyite

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I've had a taxi from Preston to Edinburgh on the night that bridge collapsed, and while I wouldn't say it was fun it got me there and I got all my money back.

One thing I would say in relation to tiredness, though, is that I've far too often come across taxi (minicab mostly) drivers who were too tired and had worked a very long shift - it does give credence to my view that tachographs should be applicable to ALL non-incidental* professional vehicle use, be that taxis, couriers, food delivery people or whatever.

It is also an ongoing issue of being "too hard" to get coaches and buses which are more suitable for this. Perhaps the railway needs to set up a decent central agency for this, like Fraser Eagle quite effectively was?

* Ideally all, and road pricing kit might allow for it, but I do recognise that putting a tacho in a private car to use for a one-off business trip is probably overkill.
 

Alex C.

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You should be able to read the original tweet here: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1706433356186161479.html

Another tweet doing the rounds is here: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1706416734528270545.html

Hi
@AvantiWestCoast
we've been stuck at Preston since around 630pm with 50 12 year olds. It's now 10.08pm. We've just been informed that there is no way of getting us home to Glasgow, as we can't send kids alone on taxis. A staff member has said we are effectively stuck here.

Where a coach full of schoolchildren were turfed out at Preston and ended up organising their own coach back to Glasgow as Avanti were unable to.
 

Carlisle

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If these are referring to yesterdays bridge strike near Lockerbie you have to ask why more effort wasn’t made to get people by train to carlisle before using taxis & also demonstrates the loss of Voyagers with their ability to divert via the Dumfries route
 

trainophile

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If these are referring to yesterdays bridge strike near Lockerbie you have to ask why more effort wasn’t made to get people by train to carlisle before using taxis & also demonstrates the loss of Voyagers with their ability to divert via the Dumfries route
Staff changeover at Preston. Presumably they didn’t want them stranded, but it’s okay for the passengers.
 

tigerroar

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Everything else aside, I was thinking of the sheer cost of I don't know how many taxi's, refunding tickets too. It's a wonder they ever make money.
 

800001

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Everything else aside, I was thinking of the sheer cost of I don't know how many taxi's, refunding tickets too. It's a wonder they ever make money.
Avanti will get money back from Nwr as ultimately root cause was a track defect on a viaduct closing the railway for several hours.
 

Mcr Warrior

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Extract...
(Mr) Nokise took the 4.40pm Avanti West Coast service from London Euston to Edinburgh, expecting to arrive at 22.21. All was well until the Pendolino was approaching Preston and Nokise received an email telling him his train – the one he was sitting in – had been cancelled. And so began his masterclass in social media storytelling.

Incident also being discussed here (inter alia)...

 

Boodiggy

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Staff changeover at Preston. Presumably they didn’t want them stranded, but it’s okay for the passengers.
In the week leading up to strike action you can see why there were not many crews volunteering to work to Carlisle.
But it shows how far there is to go for TOCs and how they look after passengers affected by disruption. AWC especially have issues when there is an incident in the evening. They never recover.
 

brad465

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The trip report seems to have gone viral, and now has a BBC article:


A man who experienced a "truly insane odyssey" from London to Edinburgh after his train was cancelled has described the experience as a "surreal trauma".
James Nokise, a comedian and podcaster from New Zealand, was travelling north on Monday evening when his trip was suddenly interrupted.
A lack of replacement services meant taxis had to be organised for himself and other stranded travellers.
"There has got to be a better way of doing this," he told the BBC.
Mr Nokise, whose account of his journey on X (formerly Twitter) was followed by thousands of people, said he was roughly three hours into a trip that normally takes five hours on the Avanti service when he received a notification that his train had been cancelled.
He wrote that this was a surprise because he was still on a moving train and there had been no announcement about the cancellation.
"About 10 mins later the train manager came on the speaker to say they 'heard from passengers' (!) that the train had been cancelled and was going to investigate because everything looked fine to them," said Mr Nokise.
They were then informed that the email was correct and the train would be terminating at Preston.
After being unable to catch a connecting train to Glasgow because it was full, Mr Nokise said they were told the next train would be along in roughly an hour but later were told there would be no more trains north that evening and alternative transport had been arranged.
"Bus? An extra train? Horses?" joked Mr Nokise.
"No. Taxis. For hundreds of people. To a city 3 and 1/2 hours away."
He described the process of putting small groups of people into local taxis as "slow and ridiculous" and the mood at the station as "frustrated".
"There were old people with crutches, people with kids," he said.
"It was the people being affected that got each other through it, rather than the company," he reflected, referring to Avanti.

Mr Nokise eventually ended up in the last one to leave with three other men who were travelling on their own.
After having to be informed that there are two train stations in Edinburgh, he said the taxi driver told them he would only drop them at Waverley station and not at their nearby accommodation.
They eventually arrived at the station early on Tuesday morning after the taxi driver, who said he had never been to Edinburgh before, had some navigational difficulties.
Avanti West Coast, which operated the train, has apologised to everyone who was affected by the disruption.
"The closure of the West Coast Main Line for over three hours due to a track defect had a significant impact on our services," a spokesperson said in a statement.
"Whilst alternative transport and overnight accommodation was sourced for most of those impacted we fully understand the frustrations of those customers whose journeys were affected, and we are extremely sorry for this."
They said anyone who was affected by the disruption would be entitled to compensation.

Mr Nokise's story attracted huge number of followers on X, some of whom told of similar experiences.
One woman commented that she had been put in a replacement cab travelling from Bristol to Salisbury when she was a teenager.
Others were shocked, with someone describing Mr Nokise's account as "harrowing".
Mr Nokise - who said it was not the first time that he had experienced difficulties while travelling north from London - said taking to social media to share his experience had made him feel "less alone and less crazy".
He was not the only one affected by the train cancellation who posted online about their experience.
"I was on this exact same train," wrote a man in response to Mr Nokise's story.
"Got to our hotel in Edinburgh at 3:30am."
According to its latest statistics, 6.7% of Avanti trains travelling between London and Scotland were cancelled in the past year, while 5% were delayed for more than 30 minutes.
 

Sniffingmoose

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Who pays for the Taxis nowdays? If the cancellation is due to a track defect then I guess its the DFT via Network Rail once the internal delay attribution is sorted out. So if I am correct there is no incentive for Avanti to run anything to Carlisle. Am I right?
 

Class83

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In the week leading up to strike action you can see why there were not many crews volunteering to work to Carlisle.
But it shows how far there is to go for TOCs and how they look after passengers affected by disruption. AWC especially have issues when there is an incident in the evening. They never recover.
But presumably a driver was rostered to drive that train from Preston to Glasgow/Edinburgh, driving it to Carlisle is part of their job, if they then had to drive it straight back to Preston with whatever passengers had managed to get from Edinburgh/Glasgow to Carlisle then they'll be home early, or back in the Preston around the time they should have got to Glasgow. If a Glasgow driver, they're in the Preston Premier Inn either way, if a Preston driver their own bed rather than a Glasgow Premier Inn.
 

Sniffingmoose

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Think about it, the railway takes the safety culture very seriously until it starts throwing money at cab drivers and getting them to drive several hours long distance in the middle of the night.

I guess most of us will say if the West Coast Main Line is blocked North of Preston there is no alternative nowdays.
 

Clarence Yard

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Who pays for the Taxis nowdays? If the cancellation is due to a track defect then I guess its the DFT via Network Rail once the internal delay attribution is sorted out. So if I am correct there is no incentive for Avanti to run anything to Carlisle. Am I right?

Directly? It’s the TOC who pays for the taxis but they are not on risk for this as the DfT effectively picks up all TOC costs now.

If it is a NR fault, the TOC will get schedule 8 but that gets wrapped up into the DfT net funding for the TOC. Avanti can’t “make” on costs or revenue anymore.
 

Boodiggy

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But presumably a driver was rostered to drive that train from Preston to Glasgow/Edinburgh, driving it to Carlisle is part of their job, if they then had to drive it straight back to Preston with whatever passengers had managed to get from Edinburgh/Glasgow to Carlisle then they'll be home early, or back in the Preston around the time they should have got to Glasgow. If a Glasgow driver, they're in the Preston Premier Inn either way, if a Preston driver their own bed rather than a Glasgow Premier Inn.
Thats correct but with industrial action it isn’t that simple. The last southbound train with a Preston Crew would be the 2010 so that would be after a PNB. Everything being asked for is not diagrammed work so is reliant on goodwill. During IA that isn’t as forthcoming as at other times. There is without knowing where units need to be etc. There would have also been a lack of glasgow crew working south to work northbound trains.
Its a messy situation.
 

Class83

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Thats correct but with industrial action it isn’t that simple. The last southbound train with a Preston Crew would be the 2010 so that would be after a PNB. Everything being asked for is not diagrammed work so is reliant on goodwill. During IA that isn’t as forthcoming as at other times. There is without knowing where units need to be etc. There would have also been a lack of glasgow crew working south to work northbound trains.
Its a messy situation.
They're paid good money to drive a train, provided it's on rolling stock and a route they are qualified to drive and doesn't exceed their contracted hours it shouldn't matter what is diagrammed, unless they were taking wildcat strike action yesterday.
 

AlterEgo

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They're paid good money to drive a train, provided it's on rolling stock and a route they are qualified to drive and doesn't exceed their contracted hours it shouldn't matter what is diagrammed, unless they were taking wildcat strike action yesterday.
But it does exceed their contracted hours, that is why it is goodwill. It's overtime, basically.
 

Class83

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But it does exceed their contracted hours, that is why it is goodwill. It's overtime, basically.
Preston to Carlisle is 64mins, Carlisle to Glasgow is 69? Preston to Glasgow is 135mins. It's less time to come back.
 

800001

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But presumably a driver was rostered to drive that train from Preston to Glasgow/Edinburgh, driving it to Carlisle is part of their job, if they then had to drive it straight back to Preston with whatever passengers had managed to get from Edinburgh/Glasgow to Carlisle then they'll be home early, or back in the Preston around the time they should have got to Glasgow. If a Glasgow driver, they're in the Preston Premier Inn either way, if a Preston driver their own bed rather than a Glasgow Premier Inn.
Could have been a Glasgow driver who was due to work it north, they may not of made it south due to the like blockage north of Carlisle. The driver who worked it Euston to Preston may not of had enough hours to go any further.
Also, would be interesting to see NWR contingency plan when route is blocked north of Carlisle, as it is between them and the relevant toc who agree where to hold/terminate trains at.
 

JonathanH

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Was there not an alternative route from Preston via the East Coast?
Not late at night. Taxis are a last resort when the railway has an obligation to get people to their destination once all rail options are unavailable.
 

Boodiggy

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They're paid good money to drive a train, provided it's on rolling stock and a route they are qualified to drive and doesn't exceed their contracted hours it shouldn't matter what is diagrammed, unless they were taking wildcat strike action yesterday.
Thats in an ideal world

Could have been a Glasgow driver who was due to work it north, they may not of made it south due to the like blockage north of Carlisle. The driver who worked it Euston to Preston may not of had enough hours to go any further.
Also, would be interesting to see NWR contingency plan when route is blocked north of Carlisle, as it is between them and the relevant toc who agree where to hold/terminate trains at.
I would imagine the contingency plan there does not offer much now there is no route retention via Dumfries.
Also, the thing with Contingency plans is they don’t factor in time of day - although that is no excuse for how the situation was handled.
 

Mcr Warrior

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Where exactly was the track problem? Be right in saying that the 1730 London Euston -> Glasgow Central (1944 from Preston) was the last one to make it through with numerous Avanti/TPE cancellations thereafter?

P.S. Did the Caledonian Sleeper manage to run?
 

voyagerdude220

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Where exactly was the track problem? Be right in saying that the 1730 London Euston -> Glasgow Central (1944 from Preston) was the last one to make it through with numerous Avanti/TPE cancellations thereafter?

P.S. Did the Caledonian Sleeper manage to run?
The problem was on a viaduct just south of Lockerbie. A quick search on realtime trains shows that the sleeper did run.
 

Mcr Warrior

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The problem was on a viaduct just south of Lockerbie. A quick search on realtime trains shows that the sleeper did run.
Noted, thanks. Wasn't sure whether the Sleeper might have been diverted.

P.S. Why weren't some evening Avanti/TPE services able to still operate as far as Carlisle when there's disruption on the Northern half of the WCML, but North of Carlisle?
 

NI 271

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The driver who worked it Euston to Preston may not of had enough hours to go any further
It was booked into Preston at 1952, I think, Could/would it not have been a Euston driver, who would then have a PNB and work one of the last services back to London? Pretty sure they don't sign north of Preston anyway?
 

Boodiggy

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May not have even been one driver from Euston - Preston.
In VT days it was a Manchester driver to Crewe, when it was the 1643.
 

AlterEgo

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Preston to Carlisle is 64mins, Carlisle to Glasgow is 69? Preston to Glasgow is 135mins. It's less time to come back.
Is your position that drivers were refusing actual contracted hours, and hence going on strike? Because that’s not what’s happened and that’s not how driver hours work.
 
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