Avanti West Coast cancellations

[Bantamzen]

I now have a mental picture of Michael Palin or John Cleese saying this over the Tannoy

I think Michael Palin would be best suited, after all he is used to travelling...

 

[D1537]

They'll certainly lose money on a lot of tickets that were sold in advance, or a number of people simply won't bother. We're going to Scotland for a week in August on 1S37 from Rugby to Glasgow. 1S37 now starts at Crewe ... but there's no way of getting to Crewe before it leaves. From a 4 hour direct service arriving at 1103 to a 6 hour 3-train manoeuvre arriving at 1404. That'll be a no.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm going to the Lakes this weekend by car because of this shambles. As I'd be going walk-up, that's £106.60 in the bin for Avanti and in the diesel tank for me, and possibly a SP upgrade too.

 

[Falcon1200]

And replaced with what? The same issues will still be apparent no matter whose name is on the side of the trains.

Someone, anyone, with the slightest sense of any duty or responsibility towards the travelling public. Cancelling 4 of the first 6 trains on a route with no real alternative is simply giving up. I have witnessed first hand the queues at Glasgow Central patiently waiting for Avanti trains, snaking back across the concourse and out to Gordon Street, it is an utterly desperate sight.

(Of course, if Up trains haven't run, there will be an effect sooner or later on Down trains. And, sure enough, 1S48 0930 ex Euston has terminated at Preston).

 

[sonic2009]

They'll certainly lose money on a lot of tickets that were sold in advance, or a number of people simply won't bother. We're going to Scotland for a week in August on 1S37 from Rugby to Glasgow. 1S37 now starts at Crewe ... but there's no way of getting to Crewe before it leaves. From a 4 hour direct service arriving at 1103 to a 6 hour 3-train manoeuvre arriving at 1404. That'll be a no.

What date is this?

 

[D1537]

They'll certainly lose money on a lot of tickets that were sold in advance, or a number of people simply won't bother. We're going to Scotland for a week in August on 1S37 from Rugby to Glasgow. 1S37 now starts at Crewe ... but there's no way of getting to Crewe before it leaves. From a 4 hour direct service arriving at 1103 to a 6 hour 3-train manoeuvre arriving at 1404. That'll be a no.

What date is this?

20 August. It's still showing on that date but I doubt very much if the shambles will sort itself out by then.

 

[gka472l]

20 August. It's still showing on that date but I doubt very much if the shambles will sort itself out by then.

Saturday 20 August is a strike day (as is Thursday 18 August)

 

[Carlisle]

Someone, anyone, with the slightest sense of any duty or responsibility towards the travelling public.

In all fairness whilst right now they’re preforming abysmally, its nothing like as poor as Trans Pennine’s ongoing record has been over the last 2 years.

 

[43096]

In all fairness whilst they’re currently preforming very badly its nothing like as poor as Trans Pennine’s record has been over the last 2 years

Notably, both the current poor (appalling) performers - TPE and Avanti - are run by the same owning group. “Transforming travel” apparently.

 

[raveon]

Now this:
"Due to a person being hit by a train between Preston and Lancaster all lines are blocked.
Impact:
Train services running through these stations may be cancelled or delayed. Disruption is expected until 16:00 22/07."

 

[gazzaa2]

An emergency timetable is a great idea, however my concern is that any emergency timetable will become permanent and the this the railway becomes irreversibly unattractive to the travelling public.

This is the thing. Nothing so permanent as a temporary measure (good luck Chester getting back a 2019 service in a hurry)

Liverpool was promised two trains an hour by Avanti in 2019 and it's going to have to reduce it to 0.5 an hour at best as this temporary timetable won't make a difference. By the time they can run a restored timetable, HS2 will be up and running.

 

[L401CJF]

Absolutely horrendous on Chester to Crewe earlier this afternoon. 3 round trips on the TfW shuttle on the bounce full and standing. Even saw the 1225ish from Crewe leave people behind.

You could understand with a cancellation or 2 but this is beyond a joke!

 

[Hadders]

I'm surprised the media aren't making more of Avanti's woeful service. Plentry in the media when an airline, airport or Port of Dover falls over but I don't recall seeing anything about Avanti.

During the Thameslink shambles of 2018 their management were summonsed to the House of Commons Transport Select Committee. Could do with Avanti's top brass being summonsed and going 'on the record'.

 

[Mag_seven]

I couldn't even name the person in charge at Avanti. I doubt the former high profile WCML franchise directors such as Chris Green or Chris Gibb would have allowed it to get into such a state as this.

 

[Watershed]

Is there anyone in charge at Avanti? Who allows this to happen, not just at the weekends but now on weekdays as well. This situation is quite appalling and nobody seems to take any responsibility for it. It could only happen and continue to happen for so long on the railways.
Avanti are a joke.

It doesn't matter who is nominally "in charge", if the purse-string holders (DfT) refuse to allow enough staff to be recruited.

 

[express93]

DfT need to let them recruit drivers and TMs none stop in the same way they allowed it on GWR. Time they took the bull by the horns and stop tinkering by taking on a few apprentices here and there.

The majority of shortages at the minute are on the TM side but funnily enough they’re not as under-staffed as you’d think. The issue you have is extra rest days have been taken away and imposed TM rosters put in place. This has resulted in TMs not wanting to work RDs after working long stints as they’re simply exhausted. This is also leading to high sickness levels.

 

[Falcon1200]

Now this:
"Due to a person being hit by a train between Preston and Lancaster all lines are blocked.
Impact:
Train services running through these stations may be cancelled or delayed. Disruption is expected until 16:00 22/07."

Another dreadful incident, and of course beyond Avanti's control..... But it meant that the 1040 from Central, the first train remember since the 0630, terminated at Lancaster.

 

[Efini92]

Another dreadful incident, and of course beyond Avanti's control..... But it meant that the 1040 from Central, the first train remember since the 0630, terminated at Lancaster.

Not a good week for the west coast. Weather disruption Monday, Tuesday & Wednesday. Then fatalities Thursday and Friday.

 

[D1537]

Saturday 20 August is a strike day (as is Thursday 18 August)

Which doesn't really make any difference. The same problem would arise on any Saturday. I'm sure that the passengers turning up at Rugby (and for that matter MKC or Stafford) for 1S37 tomorrow are going to be *incredibly* impressed that they'll be arriving three hours late (if anyone bothers to tell them how to get to Glasgow via VT, of course - it's not simple).

 

[DanNCL]

and all other TOCs should be doing this as well

Why should TOCs who are running their current timetable reliably (such as LNER) do this?

 

[peter166]

Glasgow to London summer bus launching with fares starting at £3

A NEW summer bus route between Glasgow and London is launching next week ahead of upcoming rail strikes.

www.glasgowtimes.co.uk

At the moment on the Glasgow to Euston route there is a good chance of you travelling a part or all of your Avanti journey by bus and paying high fares for the privilege of doing so.
Now you have the choice of doing so but at much lower cost with a guaranteed seat, no overcrowding or standing and generally much greater comfort. FLIX Bus. Fares from £3.99 !

 

[Carlisle]

Why should TOCs who are running their current timetable reliably (such as LNER) do this?

As has been pointed out previously by @Watershed, LNER increased staffing levels in advance of some services that haven’t yet materialised.

 

[Clarence Yard]

As has been pointed out before, it doesn’t matter who is running the TOC - it’s the number of productive drivers that the TOC has (& had pre-covid), the rest day/overtime agreement situation, any training backlog, any retirements and the ability to (timely) recruit that determines how any TOC can cope.

A lot of TOCs have enough drivers now, thanks to the reduction in service. But if they tried to put their pre-covid service in, they would fail. Some, even with the reductions, don’t have enough. Each COVID mini surge magnifies the problem, especially in TOCs who have divided up their traction and route knowledge between depots.

The DfT control of individual TOC budgets is playing a role here too. Getting authority for recruitment and training is an issue in some TOCs.

 

[philosopher]

An emergency timetable is a great idea, however my concern is that any emergency timetable will become permanent and the this the railway becomes irreversibly unattractive to the travelling public.

From a quick look at this emergency timetable, if travelling from Euston to the West Midlands, there really seems little attraction in using Avanti’s services, particularly northbound where the trains are scheduled to take 1:45 hours from Euston to Birmingham New Street. At those timings you might as well use London North Western or Chiltern and pay half the price for a service that only takes 15 to 30 minutes longer.

Therefore, I suspect their West Midlands route will in particular suffer. This probably would not help the railway finances much as passengers switching to cheaper but slightly slower services will bring less overall revenue to the industry.

 

[DanNCL]

As has been pointed out previously by @Watershed, LNER increased staffing levels in advance of some services that haven’t yet materialised.

The post I was replying to suggested that all TOCs should be running emergency timetables, and I was simply asking the valid question of why TOCs who aren’t struggling with reliability should introduce emergency timetable cuts. I used LNER as an example of such a TOC that can run their current timetable reliably. The reasons why LNER are performing better than other TOCs aren’t relevant to that particular point.

 

[C J Snarzell]

Avanti have unfortunately had two fatalities the last two days that hasn't helped the reliability of services. One was yesterday (Thurs) close to the Boars Head Bridge near Standish, north of Wigan and there was one today (Fri) at Broughton, just north of Preston. Extremely tragic for everyone involved, but it is just adding to an already chaotic rail service.

CJ

 

[Class83]

Indeed. The long arm of the DFT is no doubt hampering operations at the moment. Until someone comes along with a bit of vision and also the ability to loosen the purse strings a bit, then the outstanding issues are not going to be resolved.

The only likely way to 'loosen the purse strings' is to increase fare and catering revenue, I don't see any enthusiasm in government for a massive increase in revenue expenditure on the railways, regardless of who takes over. At current service levels I'm not sure if passengers are likely to have a great enthusiasm for either (attempting to) travel by rail more frequently or paying more to do so.

I'm going to the Lakes this weekend by car because of this shambles. As I'd be going walk-up, that's £106.60 in the bin for Avanti and in the diesel tank for me, and possibly a SP upgrade too.

Pretty much my mindset, occasional delays and being busy in the peaks was always to be expected. There is barely a day when Avanti operate something resembling the normal timetable, driving is simply a more reliable, more pleasant and particularly for 2 or more people cheaper option.

 

[Clarence Yard]

The post I was replying to suggested that all TOCs should be running emergency timetables, and I was simply asking the valid question of why TOCs who aren’t struggling with reliability should introduce emergency timetable cuts. I used LNER as an example of such a TOC that can run their current timetable reliably. The reasons why LNER are performing better than other TOCs aren’t relevant to that particular point.

TOCs who are not struggling for staff have introduced reduced services as budget cuts. Each DfT TOC had to put up a suite of potential cuts to the DfT, which then decided which ones to implement.

 

[londonmidland]

Unfortunately there’s been another fatality affecting Avanti services. This time at Atherstone.

 

[Bertie the bus]

TOCs who are not struggling for staff have introduced reduced services as budget cuts. Each DfT TOC had to put up a suite of potential cuts to the DfT, which then decided which ones to implement.

Avanti are also running a reduced service. The difference between Avanti and other TOCs is most of the others are capable of running the reduced service, Avanti aren’t.