Avanti West Coast cancellations

[peter166]

I’m hoping the spillover from them will get on the 1047 and 1147 and leave the 1247 I’m booked on alone

The incoming service (1007 from Euston) departed 45 mins late and is not expected to arrive until 1300 ( should be the 1247 departure)
The previous arrival (0907 from Euston) is over 60 mins late and not expected to arrive until 1220 ( should be the 1147 departure)

I'd just go to Crewr & change onto something else London bound.

Would seem to be extremely good advice.

 

[Statto]

Four cancellations in North Wales too, plus at least one curtailed, all due to train crew shortages. I'm watching RTT like a hawk, as I have family expecting to travel to London this afternoon...

Might be best using TfW then LNWR from Crewe option, if going from North Wales & Chester at the moment, if the ticket(s) allow it.

09.07 Euston - Liverpool is 61 late departing Crewe, this becomes the 11.47 Liverpool - Euston & the 10.07 Euston - Liverpool which becomes 12.47 Liverpool - Euston is now 41 late

 

[krus_aragon]

Might be best using TfW then LNWR from Crewe option, if going from North Wales & Chester at the moment, if the ticket(s) allow it.

They have bought advance tickets for this afternoon, so it feels like a case of waiting for the proverbial to hit the fan, and then picking the best available alternative.

 

[mrmartin]

And the return? I was thinking of returning around 4pm (on a Friday). I'll have a medium sized suitcase with me though. It sounds like too much bother tbh.

The TfW chester-crewe can be busy but generally fine. I've done it a lot and I don't think I've not got a seat, or if I had there was plenty of room to stand. Ironically the Avanti ones are often way more crowded on that line even when things were running normally. I wouldn't worry about that journey at all, as people say LNR trains are more comfortable than pendilonos (and have way better phone reception), there's lifts at crewe if you have luggage, and the ticket is way cheaper. Unless I was in a rush in 'normal' times I would often do it via LNR/TfW than Avanti.

 

[Furrball]

trains.im

trains.im - Open National Rail times. See arrivals and departures, train information, and route maps for trains throughout Great Britain.

trains.im

Avanti West Coast

PPM
48
Trains
79
On-time (<5/10 min late)
38
Late (>5/10 min & 0 min)
4
V. late (>30 min) or cancelled
37

 

[357]

Train crew on my service have been fantastic today, despite the train being extremely overcrowded with luggage blocking isles down the entire length of the train, and people standing the entire length of the journey due to prior cancelled services.

Thankfully the passengers have been giving words of support to the train crew re the strikes and many are aware of the tweets/messages yesterday

 

[D1537]

Always knew this to be the case up to a point. Hadn't appreciated that the current level of cancellations on top of a vastly curtailed timetable plan was nothing new, though!? If this is level of staff availability was as entirely predictable as you suggest then why is the timetable so out of kilter?

Anecdotally, I would suspect that far more people are using their leave time to go on holiday / spend time with their families doing stuff, since the opportunities to do so in the last two summers have been somewhat restricted. This would also mean that in the last couple of years the amount of people available to cover for absence or willing to work rest days was much higher.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Train crew on my service have been fantastic today, despite the train being extremely overcrowded with luggage blocking isles down the entire length of the train, and people standing the entire length of the journey due to prior cancelled services.

Thankfully the passengers have been giving words of support to the train crew re the strikes and many are aware of the tweets/messages yesterday

Avanti is so reviled that the passengers seem mostly to support the staff despite the inconvenience. That speaks volumes.

 

[jfollows]

Train crew on my service have been fantastic today, despite the train being extremely overcrowded with luggage blocking isles down the entire length of the train, and people standing the entire length of the journey due to prior cancelled services.

Thankfully the passengers have been giving words of support to the train crew re the strikes and many are aware of the tweets/messages yesterday

What service is that, out of interest?

 

[Grumpy Git]

40% of the first 10 Liverpool Lime Street departures cancelled this morning, including three consecutive at 07:47, 08:47 & 09:47, absolutely shameless.

 

[philthetube]

Fair enough. No, I was countering those who said they couldn't change duties around for an emergency timetable, and I was saying yes, they can, provided they keep people within the same shift times as they already had allocated.

This is virtually impossible to do, if the initial train is cancelled and the driver is asked to do one an hour later, then no prob, but on return there is probably not enough time on the duty to do another trip, imagine a driver is due to do two Prestons, if the first one departs an hour late, what happens to the second?

I am not saying there should be no increase in pay, though any increase needs to be affordable and realistic. Perhaps the same T&Cs as your TOC would do the trick? I don't know what the differences are; perhaps someone can elaborate?

they could start by offering the ot rate which is currently paid on Sundays to rostered workings on Sundays

 

[Efini92]

they could start by offering the ot rate which is currently paid on Sundays to rostered workings on Sundays

Should that be the OT rate for weekdays be the same as Sundays?

 

[Kite159]

.

Or Liverpool. Two routes to Chester (TfW and Merseyrail) and Blackpool services.

From London?

That's easy to avoid using Avanti if wanting Liverpool, even if it means a potential wait at Crewe from the London - Trent Valley - Crewe 350s to the Birmingham - Liverpool trains.

 

[londonmidland]

Just left Crewe onboard 9S60 and the 13:24 TfW service to Chester was rammed pack throughout. Crowds of people left behind on the platform.

The 11:48 Avanti service to Holyhead was still showing up as delayed, despite the fact that it’s been cancelled.

 

[peter166]

Train crew on my service have been fantastic today, despite the train being extremely overcrowded with luggage blocking isles down the entire length of the train, and people standing the entire length of the journey due to prior cancelled services.

Thankfully the passengers have been giving words of support to the train crew re the strikes and many are aware of the tweets/messages yesterday

I doubt I would be that magnanimous if I had been faced with cancellations and delay.
I suspect many other travellers would have very little positive to say about Avanti (and their staff) considering the misery and inconvenience caused and the other costs that may have been incurred as a result of severely disrupted journeys.

 

[SJN]

I doubt I would be that magnanimous if I had been faced with cancellations and delay.
I suspect many other travellers would have very little positive to say about Avanti (and their staff) considering the misery and inconvenience caused and the other costs that may have been incurred as a result of severely disrupted journeys.

Wow. So some staff don’t want to work on their days off and the service falls apart. It’s hardly the fault of the staff who are working is it?

 

[Bletchleyite]

This is virtually impossible to do, if the initial train is cancelled and the driver is asked to do one an hour later, then no prob, but on return there is probably not enough time on the duty to do another trip, imagine a driver is due to do two Prestons, if the first one departs an hour late, what happens to the second?

I'm talking about a robust published emergency timetable, not swapping stuff around dynamically.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Generally poor IR atmosphere, poor relationships between staff and management, nobody seeming to know what was going on with training etc.
Headline salary not the issue but it takes a long time to get to the full whack and starting salary represents a significant pay cut for most qualifieds until they sign certain routes and become productive (London - Birmingham IIRC), no timescales given on how long this would take.
Frankly after what I’ve heard I wouldn’t touch it with a barge pole.

And yet, if nothing changes, these people (management and staff) are the ones due to operate the UK's premier high speed services in 8 years or so.
I shouldn't think FS/Trenitalia bought into the franchise (as was) for the negative vibes now emerging.
Avanti still has to be confirmed as the long-term WCML/initial HS2 operator.

But would anything change if they became an OLR operator?
LNER are as much on the union target list for industrial action as Avanti.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm not sure how much involvement FS actually have (if they have much I'm amazed they accept it being so below the standard of Le Frecce and thus tarnishing their brand). A bit like the old FirstKeolis TPE was basically just a First operation with a bit of the Keolis logo on the letter I.

I have the distinct impression that as the bid required involvement of a European high speed operator because of HS2 being involved, First just gave FS a stake so they could use their name and tick the box.

But would anything change if they became an OLR operator?
LNER are as much on the union target list for industrial action as Avanti.

It's an interesting question. TfW haven't got any less rubbish by being nationalised - in the end they're chronically short of stock and so will be rubbish untli the 197s and FLIRTs all arrive.

On the other hand, at least LNER appear to have some sort of pride in their operation. Perhaps they'd be a decent base for starting to reconstruct InterCity?

 

[duncanp]

I need to get from Birmingham to London next month in conjuction with a holiday to France by Eurostar.

I was already going down the day before, because I couldn't risk disruption on the day, but because of the **** service that Avanti are offering I am going Birmingham New Street to Leicester, and then Leicester to St Pancras.

I know this isn't a permitted route and I will have to buy two separate tickets, but it only comes to £10 more than what Avanti would charge, and the service is more reliable and just as frequent.

The extra journey time is not an issue for me.

The more unreliable the Avanti service becomes, the more reluctant people will be to book, which is going to affect their cash flow.

I wouldn't mind betting that the new transport secretary has a word with Avanti and tells them to get their act together or have the franchise taken away from them.

 

[philthetube]

This is virtually impossible to do, if the initial train is cancelled and the driver is asked to do one an hour later, then no prob, but on return there is probably not enough time on the duty to do another trip, imagine a driver is due to do two Prestons, if the first one departs an hour late, what happens to the second?

they could start by offering the ot rate which is currently paid on Sundays to rostered workings on Sundays

I'm talking about a robust published emergency timetable, not swapping stuff around dynamically.

I get that, but if someone is due to work 7-3 for example and the 7am train is cancelled in the robust timetable then a trip is immediately lost, the driver cannot be told, "you must work until 4 today" There needs to bo rostas built around the timetable.

 

[krus_aragon]

The 11:48 Avanti service to Holyhead was still showing up as delayed, despite the fact that it’s been cancelled.

That was initially cancelled between Euston and Crewe, and eventually the Crewe-Holyhead leg was cancelled too. RTT got confused and only shows the most recent cancellation.

The returning diagram from Holyhead to Euston isn't yet shown cancelled on RTT, but Avanti / National Rail had as cancelled a good hour or two ago.

 

[Statto]

I need to get from Birmingham to London next month in conjuction with a holiday to France by Eurostar.

I was already going down the day before, because I couldn't risk disruption on the day, but because of the **** service that Avanti are offering I am going Birmingham New Street to Leicester, and then Leicester to St Pancras.

I know this isn't a permitted route and I will have to buy two separate tickets, but it only comes to £10 more than what Avanti would charge, and the service is more reliable and just as frequent.

The extra journey time is not an issue for me.

The more unreliable the Avanti service becomes, the more reluctant people will be to book, which is going to affect their cash flow.

I wouldn't mind betting that the new transport secretary has a word with Avanti and tells them to get their act together or have the franchise taken away from them.

From Birmingham to London, i would have tried the Chiltern direct services from Snow Hill or Moor Street to Marylebone, rather than going through Leicester.

 

[duncanp]

From Birmingham to London, i would have tried the Chiltern direct services from Snow Hill or Moor Street to Marylebone, rather than going through Leicester.

I could try, but my concern is whether those services are overcrowded due to the complete crock of **** that is Avanti these days.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

All 3 cancellations from Liverpool. at 0747.0847 and 0947 were due to train crew being unavailable. The 1447 is also cancelled for the same reason, entirely in the control of Avanti.

I was responding to the part of your comment regarding 60 minute delay to services. Everything ground to a halt just north of Crewe. Entirely out of Avanti's control.

The 1st train and those you list there were obviously under their control

 

[Some guy]

The

With the caveat that there are certain routes only worked by certain links at Preston. I don't believe there are any drivers that sign everything.

For now. There has been suggestions that the new depot at Crewe will mostly be taking on Preston work, so they may lose some of their route card.

Crewe will sign the Blackpool north line, London all the way until Holyhead,
London to Preston via midlands and Trent valley but no work north of preston due to Glasgow, Preston and Edinburgh depots covering those. They’ll also sign Liverpool and Manchester via Crewe

 

[Cowley]

We’re calling time on this thread for now.
If anyone wants to know what’s happening day to day then there’s a thread for discussing that below. Please note that this is just to discuss the timetable though.

Thanks everyone

Avanti strike timetables

Available for 21 & 23 June at https://www.avantiwestcoast.co.uk/travel-information/plan-your-journey/strike Hourly to Manchester via Milton Keynes, Stafford, Crewe. Not calling at Wilmslow. Stockport will be closed so Styal line. Hourly to Liverpool "to be confirmed" after Crewe Hourly to...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[peter166]

Avanti will reach a new low tomorrow morning on its Liverpool service. It has cancelled 4 trains in a row leaving a 5 hour gap !
The 0847, 0947, 1047 and 1147 are all cancelled.

Avanti West Coast JourneyCheck - Train times and live real time delay/cancellation/disruption information.

Avanti West Coast JourneyCheck provides real time, up-to-date train times and train disruption information keeping you informed about any delays or cancellations on the network and helping you know what to do when your journey is affected. Train Cancellations, Delays, Alterations and...

www.journeycheck.com

 

[irish_rail]

Unbelievable and very sad frankly. Time something was done , DFT need to sanction staffing increases , this is ridiculous.

 

[Efini92]

Unbelievable and very sad frankly. Time something was done , DFT need to sanction staffing increases , this is ridiculous.

DFT are the problem, they need to allow avanti to negotiate with the unions instead of blocking everything.