And yet, following the largely very successful financial year of 2019-2020, which ended only a couple of weeks after the first lockdown, most of their employees were asked to accept a 0% pay rise in April 2020, because of Covid...? They are not alone, of course, in that, but some resentment was bound to surface sooner or later, and may also be partly the cause of the current poor relations and the ensuing cancellations and timetable reshuffle.
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Avanti West Coast cancellations
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And yet, following the largely very successful financial year of 2019-2020, which ended only a couple of weeks after the first lockdown, most of their employees were asked to accept a 0% pay rise in April 2020, because of Covid...? They are not alone, of course, in that, but some resentment was bound to surface sooner or later, and may also be partly the cause of the current poor relations and the ensuing cancellations and timetable reshuffle.
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modernrail
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It is not great performance marking if it does not take account of ‘problems brewing’. It should not be based only on actual performance in that year but also on planning for the future to ensure performance against requirements in future years. It is badly thought through if it doesn’t do this.
Clarence Yard
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March 2020 was when the restrictions on making new pay agreements came in so whatever happened in the previous year became irrelevant to any pay offer made, or not made in 2020.
MDB1images
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Totally unforgivable that he got this so wrong when it's been so publicly publicised.
Grant Shapps is totally unfit for the role along with those behind the scenes who are directing/advising him.
philthetube
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Can't be sure about the advisors, he may have not listened to them if he thinks he knows it all.
Surreytraveller
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They would rather lie than admit they're not sure. What they don't realise, is when they're talking to someone who does know what they're talking about, they look like fools
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I'm not quite sure how the "multi skilled operative" bit would be possible without implementing DOO first. Even though it's the Lumo model, and it's the one I'd certainly use if I was setting up a new intercity rail service.
craigybagel
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If the DfT try and force this through, I can see the RMT heading for an all out strike. Which may well be the aim of the government anyway.
Surreytraveller
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It'll be like the DOO on Southern six years ago. 18 months of hell, and it'll be brought in anyway
td97
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The difference in tone and attitude to staff between the Southeastern MD and Avanti's couldn't be any more stark
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
Difficult to tell if the RMT brief refers to all DfT TOCs or just one.
Closing all ticket offices in October doesn't seem realistic, considering it isn't official policy yet - bound to take a year or more.
New employees on new Ts&Cs I can well believe, as happened for example at BA. It's how you isolate the "dinosaurs".
An industry pay body would be like many public sector bodies (teachers, nurses, police etc) - would take negotiations largely away from the TOCs.
Closing all ticket offices in October doesn't seem realistic, considering it isn't official policy yet - bound to take a year or more.
New employees on new Ts&Cs I can well believe, as happened for example at BA. It's how you isolate the "dinosaurs".
An industry pay body would be like many public sector bodies (teachers, nurses, police etc) - would take negotiations largely away from the TOCs.
Tetchytyke
Veteran Member
Shapps has always been like that, and it works for him, so why change? This is the man who "forgot" he was hawking scammy Internet investment schemes under the pseudonym Michael Green whilst he was an MP, and then tried to sue someone when they pointed it out.
Something worth remembering when they're going on about "union barons"...
As for forcing change, it's dead easy with fire-and-rehire, which is why they've suddenly gone all quiet about P&O.
craigybagel
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I'm fearful that that's exactly what the government are banking on.
The point about the pay review bodies is a bit odd - the existing ones take evidence from the trade unions as major stakeholders.
The pay review bodies are independent of government, which is why they were introduced. It proves the government from coming to the table with an unrealistically low offer like 0.5% or something, and instead the government are handed a recommendation based on a whole stack of evidence.
The pay review bodies are independent of government, which is why they were introduced. It proves the government from coming to the table with an unrealistically low offer like 0.5% or something, and instead the government are handed a recommendation based on a whole stack of evidence.
It could just be a restructuring brought on by nearly every company starting a dispute at the same time. The new contracts could include time limited provisions for people to keep doing their legacy role.
I am not sure how a multi skilled operator can be on universally inferior rates of pay when catering staff are being merged with people paid much more.
If that is really what they are about.
It would appear that way, because apart from an 'all out' strike there aren't really any escalation options left from the Union side.
Another quango. The NHS has a pay review body, yet thousands of vital vacancies are unfilled with high turnover because of low pay.
Why choose a model that patently doesn't work?
Let the market set pay.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
It did occur to me that this would be why it would be nonsensical to attempt this with existing staff - you'd just end up paying them all guard money when currently catering gets much less, and if Shapps thinks the unions are too weak to ensure that then he's a muppet (well, we know that already). That's why it's a model for a new operation like Lumo, not one to move onto.
There's also loads of stock that isn't DOO capable. Some retrofit is going on but it'd take a long time to do everything.
The irony is, HS2 is needed to free up capacity on the WCML and while it's under construction the services have less than halved.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Not through lack of demand, though. Lots of people are being turned away and the trains are still running full and standing.
Makes sense I suppose then.
I hope perhaps that something can be salvaged from the tatters of Avanti's reputation, it's quite disgraceful that the once-prestigious West Coast Main Line and its important inter-city links have been reduced to the current state, in no small way it would seem by inflammatory and provocative statements made by those who should know better.
bramling
Veteran Member
The only snag is the gov are going to have to, at some point, wake up to the fact that they’re now approaching the point in the cycle when the need to start thinking about the next general election. The change of leader is only going to increase calls for one as history shows mid-term leader changes aren’t really liked. On top of that there’s a mountain of other issues.
In short, this government is not popular, and they really can’t afford to continue pissing *everyone* off, which is what they seem to be achieving pretty comprehensively at the moment.
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
With an 80-seat majority, the Tory government (whoever is leader) is safe until the 5 years are up in 2024.
Truss/Sunak will have a honeymoon period before they are backed into a corner like Boris.
It will get interesting if there is a new Transport SoS.
Wendy Morton has hardly got her feet under the table as Rail minister.
DelayRepay
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If they offer voluntary redundancy, I imagine it will be popular. Especially amongst older staff who are approaching retirement anyway. That means they'll have a shortage of Multi Skilled Operatives so trains will either run in DOO mode (given the MSO apparently has no safety responsibilities), or we'll have agency staff covering on board duties, or the trains will just be cancelled.
If they are trying to transfer all safety responsibilities to the drivers, I doubt that will help to resolve the ASLEF dispute.
On the BBC Breakfast thing, I guess they're covering this due to being based in Salford and having staff travel back and forth to London regularly. I doubt it would have gained as much interest if BBC Breakfast was still broadcast from London.
Nicholas Lewis
Established Member
Steve is one of the best of the new railway MDs whose got his head screwed on. Also he's gone out on limb here being its an OLR run operation.
The fact is govt screwed this up six months ago 5% would have got members on side and some concessions on working arrangements now every month that goes by RPI goes up another percent and the gulf gets ever wider.
Personally though Shapps knows he's goner (hes Sunak supporter) so he's just going for broke and aggravating the situation so its a mess for his Truss appointed replacement.
For sure, it just shows the ridiculousness of the situation that HS2 was needed to massively increase capacity on the route and here we are with existing services of the main WCML operator less than halved before HS2 has started.
Nicholas Lewis
Established Member
Shapps is Sunak supporter so he will be ejected
She is Truss supporter so maybe gets to stay on board
NORTHERNSOUL
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Much as I hate Schapps with a vengeance if you'd watched and listened right to the end he was pulling a very sly clever one knowing what Charlie Stayts reaction would be.
Charlie was saying there was only one per hour on the new Avanti temporary timetable and he was agreeing but what Charlie didnt grasp was that Schapps was getting over his point that he believes the Aslef drivers refusing to work their rest days is unofficial strike action and was therefore saying that if they weren't doing that there would be 4 trains an hour. Making it their fault and not Avantis
To me he comes across as a very desperate man trying to make a name for himself as a hard case just in case Truss or Sunak are desperate for one of the same.
If i were the RMT i.d get together with the companies agree on as many things as they can then and then come out and say we have a deal the only person stopping it is Schappes and then see if he's happy to go on Breakfast tv.
My local Tory MP told people from the stage at a function in the constituency that he's the most hated tory MP amongst the rest of them [ inc Gove ] what I don't understand is why it's beyond the RMT to dig the dirt on him and if they can't find any make some real juicy stuff up just to get it on the news for 3 nights running and he'd be gone the next day.
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