Avanti West coast contract extended to 1st April 2023

[dk1]

The one thing I'll give them is that in my view Standard in the refurbished Pendolino is excellent.

Hopefully get to try one soon. I’ve avoided Avanti over the last few trips to Liverpool & Manchester from Norwich instead just sticking with EMR, LNER or can you believe TPX. I just can’t be doing with the hassle, uncertainty & overcrowding going via Euston.

 

[The Planner]

HS2 is 10 years away so I expect at least 2 changes of ToC before it opens, and LNER runs the east coast mainline rather successfully.

I wouldn't. Don't underestimate the issues and wrangling of binning the West Coast Partnership prior to HS2 opening.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Was hoping for ‘LMS’ last time as franchises where going that way when First & Co came up with the hideous ‘Avanti’ trading name.

I always thought that was irritatingly imbalanced
LNER is the long distance service on the East Coast
LNWR is the stopping commuter service on the West Coast but for balance you'd think that would be the better name than LMS, although I know that was the historical name.

And thank goodness they came up with something 21st century and not ANOTHER relic of the steam era! Did you hope for some nice cream and brown wooden carriages too?

S-T

The one thing I'll give them is that in my view Standard in the refurbished Pendolino is excellent.

To compare the excellent refurbished Pendolino offering on Britain's flagship railway with the Azuma offering on the East Coast, probably the second flagship, puts LNER to shame from a customer experience point of view. All they need now is to restore a decent amount of First Class, rather than a stupid third of a carriage.

 

[dk1]

I always thought that was irritatingly imbalanced
LNER is the long distance service on the East Coast
LNWR is the stopping commuter service on the West Coast but for balance you'd think that would be the better name than LMS, although I know that was the historical name.

And thank goodness they came up with something 21st century and not ANOTHER relic of the steam era! Did you hope for some nice cream and brown wooden carriages too?

Certainly not. Just something with an appropriate link to the route & the past with a little class would’ve been better that what we ended up with. That said I would’ve been happy to retain Virgin Trains for ever & ever.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

That said I would’ve been happy to retain Virgin Trains for ever & ever.

So would I

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

But the OLR does already manage high speed rail on Southeastern of course, so this shouldn't be an issue.

But they haven't managed the introduction of new high speed trains (possibly) based on Frecciarossa 1000, or done the marketing for a combined WCML/HS2 operation.
Or influenced the reconfiguring of the WCML for HS2 as well as classic services north of Lichfield.

OLR are very capable and can call on a wide range of consultants), but Trenitalia (or SNCF or DB or Renfe) has a decided operational advantage.
HS1 infrastructure (a French LGV clone) is settled and contracted out.
HS2 has it all to do.
In HS2 terms, if Avanti gets the boot, the loss of TI would be more significant than the loss of FirstGroup.

 

[LYuen]

But they haven't managed the introduction of new high speed trains (possibly) based on Frecciarossa 1000, or done the marketing for a combined WCML/HS2 operation.
Or influenced the reconfiguring of the WCML for HS2 as well as classic services north of Lichfield.

OLR are very capable and can call on a wide range of consultants), but Trenitalia (or SNCF or DB or Renfe) has a decided operational advantage.
HS1 infrastructure (a French LGV clone) is settled and contracted out.
HS2 has it all to do.
In HS2 terms, if Avanti gets the boot, the loss of TI would be more significant than the loss of FirstGroup.

Consumer confidence is important, and with the current state of Avanti, however they 'market' themselves, like calling the current situation as temporal and will improve in the future, it is unlikely they can salvage their brand name.

Plus, JR East has a 15% share in WMT - you can't say they are incapable of operating high speed trains.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Consumer confidence is important, and with the current state of Avanti, however they 'market' themselves, like calling the current situation as temporal and will improve in the future, it is unlikely they can salvage their brand name.

FirstGroup has managed a fairly impressive rebranding coup before...

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Plus, JR East has a 15% share in WMT - you can't say they are incapable of operating high speed trains.

I would guess they are a silent partner.
TI has a specific role for HS2 as part of the West Coast Partnership franchise spec which I believe still applies.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...onservatives-boris-johnson-uk-politics-latest reports

Surely AWC couldn't change the rosters without the LDC's agreement?

 

[Bald Rick]

Surely AWC couldn't change the rosters without the LDC's agreement?

They can impose rosters if the negotiation machinery has been exhausted.

It will be interesting to see why Euston have not agreed, but 6 of the other depots have. It’s the same rostering principles.

 

[Snow1964]

Just been going through the Parliamentary committee (which is in this thread)

Merriman at Transport Committee 18/1

deleted 1674045152 Huw appeared at TSC this morning reasonable outing and certainly picks up on a lot of issues shared across the forum. He has five goals for Rail https://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/d3a22326-aa75-42c8-8acf-2f64289787d1 Hansard lags by a few hours 1. Sort out industrial...

www.railforums.co.uk

Trying to interpret the careful choice of words, as I read it it appears Avanti have made some improvements, things still getting better, but ideally not fast enough. Being looked at weekly.

But it sounds to me that Avanti's Knight in shining armour coming to their rescue is Transpennine which is lot worst and contract ends May.

I think what the minister wanted to say was Avanti is safe because we don't have the resources to take over both, so got to do the worst one. Clearly can't let Avanti know they have an extension (again) until they meet a higher threshold than now, and an announcement is going to upset some, but going to be extended anyway.

Does anyone else read it that way ?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Merriman also hinting that TPE and Northern could be merged (under OLR control?).
Although it's not clear how that would solve the immediate service problems.

 

[LYuen]

Just been going through the Parliamentary committee (which is in this thread)

Merriman at Transport Committee 18/1

deleted 1674045152 Huw appeared at TSC this morning reasonable outing and certainly picks up on a lot of issues shared across the forum. He has five goals for Rail https://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/d3a22326-aa75-42c8-8acf-2f64289787d1 Hansard lags by a few hours 1. Sort out industrial...

www.railforums.co.uk

Trying to interpret the careful choice of words, as I read it it appears Avanti have made some improvements, things still getting better, but ideally not fast enough. Being looked at weekly.

But it sounds to me that Avanti's Knight in shining armour coming to their rescue is Transpennine which is lot worst and contract ends May.

I think what the minister wanted to say was Avanti is safe because we don't have the resources to take over both, so got to do the worst one. Clearly can't let Avanti know they have an extension (again) until they meet a higher threshold than now, and an announcement is going to upset some, but going to be extended anyway.

Does anyone else read it that way ?

Interesting remark on Lumo, which is another FirstGroup subsidiary.

 

[Facing Back]

Interesting remark on Lumo, which is another FirstGroup subsidiary.

Which remark? That they should pay track access charges in line with other TOCs?

 

[Clarence Yard]

They do pay track access charges in line with other TOCs - both the rail minister and the committee don’t know what they are talking about.

The SNP member was particularly bad when it came to the reason “why are the Scotrail access charges so high” issue. Do these people ever do any research?

 

[XCTurbostar]

Merriman also hinting that TPE and Northern could be merged (under OLR control?).
Although it's not clear how that would solve the immediate service problems.

That would cause more problems than he understands. Technically, if they became part of the OLR they would just be brand names of the same operator.

 

[Facing Back]

The SNP member was particularly bad when it came to the reason “why are the Scotrail access charges so high” issue. Do these people ever do any research?

One assumes that was a rhetorical question?

 

[jayah]

Merriman also hinting that TPE and Northern could be merged (under OLR control?).
Although it's not clear how that would solve the immediate service problems.

The problems of TPE and Avanti seem to be derived from industrial relations more than organisation. Heaven forbid the RMT now get to decide who is permitted to run these businesses.

As Northern is probably at least as bad as Avanti, does DOR have to forfeit that under this buggins turn next performance regime?

Perhaps if TPE and Northern swapped every two years between state and private operation, we might finally answer the question which is better.

 

[Facing Back]

That would cause more problems than he understands. Technically, if they became part of the OLR they would just be brand names of the same operator.

I don't doubt you. From what I read here integration east and west northern will continue to cause more problems than people realise. But can you tell me why it would matter if they just became brand names under OLR?

 

[Vespa]

I'm avoiding Avanti, but the other operators I have used recently have been fine.

Same here, I've given up on Avanti and use LNWR instead.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Same here, I've given up on Avanti and use LNWR instead.

The extremely high loadings on the LNR Birmingham and Crewe services at present seem to show you are by no means the only one.

 

[jfollows]

ORR has written to Avanti to the effect that although some progress has been made since September 2022, "the position has deteriorated in 2023":

Rail regulator calls for improvement after Avanti’s timetable recovery plan stalls | Office of Rail and Road

Passengers attempting to access timetable information and book tickets for Avanti West Coast services have faced frustrating and enduring problems in recent months.

www.orr.gov.uk

An "improved recovery plan" is requested from Avanti by 2 February 2023.
Letter attached.

The Office of Rail and Road has today written to Avanti calling for significant improvements to its recovery plan for releasing timetables to passengers ahead of travel.
Despite Avanti initially making reasonable progress against their September 2022 plan and increasing notice for passengers to book travel in the lead up to Christmas, the position has deteriorated in 2023.
For weekends in January, passengers have only been able to book tickets at a few days’ notice.
Avanti’s current plans for February show a better picture for weekday travel, but still fall short of passengers’ needs for weekend journeys.
Under Avanti’s passenger information licence requirement, ORR has asked Avanti to submit an improved recovery plan for timetable production by 2 February 2023. 
Stephanie Tobyn, Director of Strategy, Policy and Reform at ORR said:
“Passengers are rightly frustrated that this situation has deteriorated so quickly after a steady start to the recovery plan late last year.
“By 2 February we expect Avanti to identify what has gone wrong and set out how it intends to get back to releasing timetables in normal industry timescales so that passengers can plan and book journeys with greater confidence”.
“Failure to produce an acceptable plan or to deliver improvements may lead to more formal measures.”

Notes to Editors:​

1. Avanti letter
2. Passenger information licence conditions
3. Railway timetables generally are still recovering from the pandemic. The industry aims to introduce a new timetable planning process. Implementation of the new process will however require changes to the railway Network Code.
4. Network Rail is responsible for coordinating and validating timetables for the national rail network. Each train and freight operating company develops the timetable they would like to run in their area, and Network Rail then coordinates all the different timetables to produce a single national rail timetable.
5. Network Rail currently updates the timetable for the national rail network twice a year, in May and December. This allows train and freight operating companies a regular opportunity to make changes to their services – run more or new services, change the timing of their services, and/or change their routes.
6. The Office of Rail and Road is the economic and safety regulator of Britain’s railway. ORR also holds National Highways to account for its performance and efficiency.
7. Our passenger facing work derives from the licences we issue to train and station operators, including Network Rail for its managed stations, and from our powers and responsibilities under consumer and competition law.

EDIT BBC has now reported on the story (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-64376008):

West Coast Main Line: Avanti ordered to release tickets earlier​

• • Published
    2 minutes ago

Avanti West Coast (AWC) has been ordered to stop releasing rail tickets only a few days ahead of travel.
Passengers claim it means they are often being denied cheaper tickets.
Rail regulator the Office of Rail and Road (ORR) said AWC must submit an improved recovery plan by 2 February for producing timetables and releasing tickets or face "formal measures".
The company has apologised, citing industrial action and engineering works.
AWC runs services on the West Coast Main Line between London Euston and Glasgow Central. The route also serves the Midlands, North West of England and North Wales.
Passengers wanting to book tickets for weekend travel this month have only been able to purchase tickets a few days in advance.
Weekday tickets have also been released far later than the 12-week booking window normally used by rail operators.
AWC said the delay had been caused by having to produce bespoke timetables - in partnership with Network Rail - during engineering work.
Tickets can only be made available for sale once timetables are confirmed.

'Inconvenience'​

AWC initially made "reasonable progress" against an improvement plan created in September, with passengers given more notice to book travel in the run-up to Christmas.
But, according to the ORR, the "position has deteriorated" this month.
Current plans for February show a "better picture for weekday travel, but still fall short of passengers' needs for weekend journeys", the regulator added.
ORR strategy, policy and reform director Stephanie Tobyn said passengers were "rightly frustrated that this situation has deteriorated so quickly after a steady start to the recovery plan late last year".
She added: "By 2 February we expect Avanti to identify what has gone wrong and set out how it intends to get back to releasing timetables in normal industry timescales so that passengers can plan and book journeys with greater confidence.
"Failure to produce an acceptable plan or to deliver improvements may lead to more formal measures."
An AWC spokesman said: "Unfortunately, some tickets for Saturdays and Sundays have only been available at short notice due to having to write unprecedented numbers of bespoke timetables to accommodate industrial action and engineering work which has stretched industry train planning resources.
"We know this causes huge uncertainty and inconvenience for passengers, and we're sorry for that.
"Weekend tickets are now on sale up to mid-February, and by mid-March we'll be selling weekend tickets six weeks out."
It emerged on Monday that the operator cancelled the equivalent of about one-in-five services during the four weeks to 7 January.
The company said "performance has steadily improved" since then.

 

[Master29]

Looks like February 2nd can't come soon enough for most.

 

[The Planner]

Will have to sit on the fence here as they are really up against it and down on numbers, which should improve soon. IA is a given and has caused carnage everywhere planning wise, but it isn't as though the engineering work was new to them.

 

[Snow1964]

Will have to sit on the fence here as they are really up against it and down on numbers, which should improve soon. IA is a given and has caused carnage everywhere planning wise, but it isn't as though the engineering work was new to them.

Sorry whats an IA ?

Guessing Industrial Action, but wouldn't be a given for weeks in March and April when tickets should be on sale.

 

[The Planner]

Sorry whats an IA ?

Guessing Industrial Action, but wouldn't be a given for weeks in March and April when tickets should be on sale.

Why? Sorting out timetables for when industrial action is due means you arent doing the day job.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Why do ORR wade in now they should have done that month back if they were that bothered and if they are really serious TPE are the ones that need action.

 

[Snow1964]

Just over 6 weeks left of Avanti short term extension to see if it improves. Anyone know if it has achieved the 264 trains per day, or full range of tickets available

Alongside rolling ahead with training new drivers, Avanti’s service improvement plans include:

• the successful delivery of its timetable recovery plan and a significant, sustained and reliable increase from about 180 trains per day to 264 trains per day on weekdays as new and retrained drivers become available
• continuing to deliver on its traincrew recruitment and plans to reduce reliance on rest day working to operate services
• extending booking options for passengers, making the full range of tickets available as early as possible

Still have a gut feeling that even if it fails to reach these targets, but is not as bad as 5 months ago, the DfT will take the lazy approach of giving them another couple of years because they can't be bothered to find an alternative, especially as DfT might have to put some effort into sorting Transpennine in 2 months time.

 

[Clarence Yard]

The word on the tracks is another six month extension for Avanti to see if the improvement path continues and at what rate.