voyagerdude220
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I've messaged Avanti on Facebook and they state there are no restrictions preventing Priv ticket holders from paying the appropriate fee to upgrade to Standard Premium.
This in fact used to be a hybrid first class coach, which was occasionally laid up with antimacassars.The obvious answer might be to make Coach D SP. It's not as good as 1st but it is better than the rest of the train.
Or are there now sets without an all tables coach?
This in fact used to be a hybrid first class coach, which was occasionally laid up with antimacassars.
Anyone remember Silver Standard in the 1980s? Used it Liverpool Lime Street to London Euston a few times. Same seats with a coffee and a croissant thrown in, I think. But the was BR InterCity running a three-class service, so not that much different, really.
Since that has been an ongoing issue for the whole life of the Pendolinos I would say the only way Avanti will have cracked this nut is by reducing the 1st class offering so much that they have removed the majority of the 1st class host jobs.If that is correct I only hope that all seats in coach K (including the ones at the very back) are kept free for first class ticket holders and that on board staff don't get funny about passengers sitting in them as has been reported frequently before.
The people the higher classes are targeted at will gripe about the size of the accommodation when the train they previously were all but guaranteed a bay of 4 to themselves on now has them crammed in with 2-3 other people.I'm not convinced people find multiple classes confusing, or that the people the higher classes are targeted at are the people griping about the size and complexity of fares.
There has been a growth in the number of seat types/classes on airlines in recent years, and the success of Premium Economy shows that passengers can handle fine, and if anything, want, a tailored range of seat options. On short haul flights equivalent in travel time to many Avanti journeys plenty of airlines extra leg room seats and is basically what Avanti are offering the equivalent of
It does leave me wondering if a 1st class ticket will be accepted in the Avanti Standard Premium coach? I can definitely see a quiet SP coach on a train with the small remaining 1st class accommodation being rammed as an attractive option.
Since that has been an ongoing issue for the whole life of the Pendolinos I would say the only way Avanti will have cracked this nut is by reducing the 1st class offering so much that they have removed the majority of the 1st class host jobs.
Since that has been an ongoing issue for the whole life of the Pendolinos I would say the only way Avanti will have cracked this nut is by reducing the 1st class offering so much that they have removed the majority of the 1st class host jobs.
If it proves more successful than proper 1st they could of course revert to two classes and return First back to what it used to be - a reasonable uplift for a more comfortable, spacious seat, and none of the gimmicks, like it is in most of Europe.
I doubt that will happen but if it did I'd be fine with it.
Much more likely is that it will be under-used and a failure as in general the bargain hunters who are tempted by cheap-1st are far more interested in the freebies than the premium seat/accommodation.
Bargain hunters are not what makes Avanti their money. If less is charged for 1st than about 1.5 x Standard then they are effectively losing income, as that is about the ratio of floorspace taken by the seat and surrounds in each class. So if on average 1st/SP doesn't break that threshold they might as well just convert it to Standard and forget about premium offerings.
I have conflicted views on this. I am happy to pay a reasonable premium to get first class seating but none of the extras.
My concern is that unlike on say eurostar where you can book any if the three classes in any of the trains, room permitting if course, with this you need to know if the train will be a pendolino or a voyager, and if a pendolino is it going to have one, two or anything in between coaches given over to 1st or SP.
It is this that causes the confusion, not the number of classes per se.
Indeed, bargain hunters are basically being excluded from 1st as there is no longer the capacity to offer cheap Advances and the SP upgrade won't attract many.
True enough re seating plan for advance purchase, but even there I can see some people hitting a problem, and not just due to set swaps. Walk up, well great I can upgrade, but I would prefer to know what class I was in before getting on the train.If booking in advance you can see the seating plan of the diagrammed unit (or at least will be able to once Avanti turn their seat selector back on). If doing walk-up you don't have to pay for SP until you've taken a seat so there's no risk of paying and being unable to have it.
True enough re seating plan for advance purchase, but even there I can see some people hitting a problem, and not just due to set swaps. Walk up, well great I can upgrade, but I would prefer to know what class I was in before getting on the train.
If I'd ever managed to get a bay of 4 on west coast I might agree with you. Instead I've always been crammed in with a bunch of frightful commoners who used some kind of ghastly app to upgrade to a seat next to me for considerably less than I paid. A smaller first class where I feel like I'm sharing with my sort of people is most certainly preferable to that.The people the higher classes are targeted at will gripe about the size of the accommodation when the train they previously were all but guaranteed a bay of 4 to themselves on now has them crammed in with 2-3 other people.
In truth they probably won't gripe about it, they will just abandon the railways and travel in comfort in their car or endure a short domestic flight instead.
If booking in advance you can see the seating plan of the diagrammed unit (or at least will be able to once Avanti turn their seat selector back on). If doing walk-up you don't have to pay for SP until you've taken a seat so there's no risk of paying and being unable to have it.
I disagree. It's poorly publicised so isn't attracting many now, but better publicised and with advance booking I can see it being very successful. It's basically just "weekday weekend First" and Weekend First has always been fairly popular.
That last point is the one that irks me, as they can't / don't offer SP on Voyagers, thus removing the option to upgrade at weekends for the usual premium payment.
If I'd ever managed to get a bay of 4 on west coast I might agree with you. Instead I've always been crammed in with a bunch of frightful commoners who used some kind of ghastly app to upgrade to a seat next to me for considerably less than I paid. A smaller first class where I feel like I'm sharing with my sort of people is most certainly preferable to that.
I must have been lucky as I never had issues upgrading on Super Voyagers using weekend First, even when it was rather busy.It often wasn't offered on Voyagers anyway as there wasn't enough room once the First Advances had taken most of the seats up.
Which is what I would endeavour to do. My main concern isn't that I think SP is bad it us just that I think Avanti's rolling stock is not ideal for its implementation. Yes I know their not having a uniform fleet of even pendolinos is not their fault.Given that you can't know if you'll be sitting on the floor/standing or in a seat before you board in Standard, I'm not sure how it could be seen as anything other than an improvement.
The way to know what "class" you are in before getting on the train is to reserve a seat in advance.
There's probably a degree of logic in saying that you have SP instead of 1st on Voyagers.Which is what I would endeavour to do. My main concern isn't that I think SP is bad it us just that I think Avanti's rolling stock is not ideal for its implementation. Yes I know their not having a uniform fleet of even pendolinos is not their fault.
I do wonder if it is actually the start of them getting rid of 1st class, if SP is popular, and I fell it will be, then maybe the numbers willing to hand over the annual income of the average small country to use 1st class will plummet and can then be dropped for commercial reasons. This of course would lead to the European system that you, and to be honest myself, would rather have, whereby 1st class is a reasonable multiple of standard.
Or they could just abandon this tomfoolery.There's probably a degree of logic in saying that you have SP instead of 1st on Voyagers.
Or they could just abandon this tomfoolery.
I don't agree that it us tomfoolery, if implemented properly then I can see it being a success, I guess my concerns are over implementation.Or they could just abandon this tomfoolery.
I think what you're suggesting is that they abandon an extremely good idea because of an edge case that won't make a blind bit of difference to the vast majority of the travelling publicOr they could just abandon this tomfoolery.
It's not tomfoolery to a lot of us. It's an attractive offering.
Judging from my experience so far, it's anything but a failure. Even on a relatively quiet late morning weekday service out of Euston it was busy with people upgradingI doubt that will happen but if it did I'd be fine with it.
Much more likely is that it will be under-used and a failure as in general the bargain hunters who are tempted by cheap-1st are far more interested in the freebies than the premium seat/accommodation.
Is it me, or is the Voyager and weekend menu IDENTICAL to the Pendolino menu? So is this confirmation that the First Class weekend service WILL be the same as a weekday, or is it just an error?The new menus for first class are now up on the Avanti website:
Decent-looking menu. It's got a relatively limited number of ingredients so should be fairly deliverable, but formed up into a good number of options. They also appear to have got a bit better at merchandising - selling indifferent sandwiches and a couple of cakes as afternoon tea for example.The new menus for first class are now up on the Avanti website: