Avanti West Coast to cut number of services in December

[AndrewE]

Astonishing... https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/oct/20/avanti-west-coast-cut-services-december-rail-train:

Avanti West Coast is to cut the number of services it operates in December because of staff shortages, reducing weekend train frequency on one of Britain’s main intercity lines before Christmas.

The Manchester mayor, Andy Burnham, described the news as a “kick in the teeth”, with the operator confirming the decision only weeks after it was awarded a nine-year contract by the government, after having been put on notice to improve its performance.

Avanti will cut back trains running between London, Birmingham, Manchester and north Wales, including running only two trains an hour between the capital and Manchester on Saturdays in December.

Just Saturdays in December?
And especially after https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...more-trains-or-lose-contract-manchester-mayor in 2022

Avanti should run more trains or lose contract – Manchester mayor​

Firm should run 2 trains per hour to London in October and then 3 by December, says Andy Burnham
Andy Burnham, the mayor of Greater Manchester, has written to the transport secretary urging her to require Avanti to increase services between Manchester and London by the end of the month – or remove its contract.

 

[danbarjon]

Astonishing... https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/oct/20/avanti-west-coast-cut-services-december-rail-train:

Just Saturdays in December?
And especially after https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...more-trains-or-lose-contract-manchester-mayor in 2022

This should be interesting to watch!

 

[Bletchleyite]

This should be interesting to watch!

Shouldn't be a massive issue as long as they can ensure all Manchesters are diagrammed 11 car.

 

[Clarence Yard]

It would have been done with full knowledge and support of the DfT. Burnham, if he wants to make a political point, should be asking why the DfT agreed to it.

 

[Mzzzs]

Being a bit honest
This is better than canceling a service then leaving people to get on the nest service which will be busy and probably leave people behind.

 

[Deafdoggie]

That's a bit of nuisance for the RMT. How can they call strikes when the TOC is doing it for them?

 

[6Gman]

Shouldn't be a massive issue as long as they can ensure all Manchesters are diagrammed 11 car.

Is there a list of what they are proposing to withdraw?

Could be something or nothing, or a significant nuisance.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

That's a bit of nuisance for the RMT. How can they call strikes when the TOC is doing it for them?

Isn't this at least partially due to the poor industrial relations scene with DfT TOCs at the moment?
Andy Burnham can carp on the sidelines, but he hasn't got the bother, or the ultimate cost, of negotiating an annual settlement with the unions.

 

[AndrewE]

Shouldn't be a massive issue as long as they can ensure all Manchesters are diagrammed 11 car...

...and they actually run!
Does this guarantee 9-cars on the Liverpools, or the busy London-Glasgows, or the class 9s via the W Midlands which are usually heaving?

 

[danbarjon]

Shouldn't be a massive issue as long as they can ensure all Manchesters are diagrammed 11 car.

That's very true, there should only be issues if they make all the Manchesters 9 cars.

 

[irish_rail]

...and they actually run!
Does this guarantee 9-cars on the Liverpools, or the busy London-Glasgows, or the class 9s via the W Midlands which are usually heaving?

My thoughts precisely. No doubt Manchester won't really lose out too much, meanwhile those going Liverpool, or on the long haul to Scotland suffer overcrowded 9 car sets. Seems a very strange and disappointing move. Why can Avanti not recruit countless train crew in the way GWR have always been able to do?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Is there a list of what they are proposing to withdraw?

Could be something or nothing, or a significant nuisance.

Can't remember where I saw it, but I believe it was a reduction from 3 to 2 Manchesters an hour on weekends. If everything runs as 11 car I can't see that being a major issue.

 

[Class15]

Can't remember where I saw it, but I believe it was a reduction from 3 to 2 Manchesters an hour on weekends. If everything runs as 11 car I can't see that being a major issue.

I think “if everything runs” full stop is a more important question

 

[Peregrine 4903]

This is an old artice from 2022 though. Are you sure this is what is happening?

This can't be true, Anne Marie Trevalyn is still transport secretary in this. This is out of date.

 

[AndrewE]

This is an old article from 2022 though. Are you sure this is what is happening?

This can't be true, Anne Marie Trevalyn is still transport secretary in this. This is out of date.

That is the second one.
I just checked the link to the first (yesterday's) story and got 404, here is a new link

Avanti West Coast to cut number of services in December

Andy Burnham says news is a ‘kick in the teeth’ when rail operator has just won nine-year contract

www.theguardian.com

 

[hexagon789]

Looks like the cuts are:

The XX:13 from Euston
The XX:35 from Manchester Piccadilly

The Nuneaton calls are inserted into the Liverpools.

 

[Dan G]

running only two trains an hour between the capital and Manchester on Saturdays in December.

I'm not sure what this means. There is already only two trains per hour between Manchester Piccadilly and London Euston on a Saturday. Or is the author trying to say there will only be one train in each direction per hour?

 

[td97]

Quite a few weekends lately (Sundays mainly) have been 2tph with a diversion via Northampton or Coventry/Aston due to engineering works. Naturally with rammed 9 carriage 390s which is entirely predictable.

Alternative source also confirms North Wales cuts.

Avanti West Coast to cut services on key lines from London in December due to staff shortages

The train operator said the measures were designed to reduce the impact of staff shortages due to holidays, and avoid trains being cancelled last minute. Avanti West Coast said no tickets for the cut services had yet been sold.

news.sky.com

On Saturdays in December Avanti will operate only two trains per hour on the Manchester route, and a further two services have been removed on 23 December.

On the North Wales route, on weekdays between 11 to 22 December, two trains have been removed and two services will start later on the line or terminate early.

Rail replacement coaches will run between Chester and Wrexham to connect with the part cancelled services and enable passengers to make journeys into London.

 

[ld0595]

How does that square with the message that we need to take the train to reduce emissions?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

It's just so disheartening to show that no real effort is being made to restore services on very busy routes to the appropriate frequencies they were before. Especially at Christmas and the festive season, where travel will be all the busier.

 

[Bald Rick]

Can't remember where I saw it, but I believe it was a reduction from 3 to 2 Manchesters an hour on weekends. If everything runs as 11 car I can't see that being a major issue.

Looks like the cuts are:

The XX:13 from Euston
The XX:35 from Manchester Piccadilly

The Nuneaton calls are inserted into the Liverpools.

This happened yesterday.

It's just so disheartening to show that no real effort is being made to restore services on very busy routes to the appropriate frequencies they were before. Especially at Christmas and the festive season, where travel will be all the busier.

What would you do though?

Avanti drivers are not working overtime or rest days - its not a dispute though, its jst that drivers are chooisng not to volunteer. (Although AIUI a few are now doing so).

December is always the hardest month for traincrew availability, especially at weekends. Agreements with the unions will specify annual leave arrangements, and I can almost guarantee that evry available leave slot id being taken up as individuals have things to do in the run up to Christmas - visiting friends and familes for pre Christmas meals, picking up kids from Uni, going on that trip to the Christmas markets, Christmas parties etc. Even in normal circumstances its hard to cover, but with little RDW being worked its almost impossible.

So Avanti have the choice of cancelling services now and letting customers know so that they don’t even book a ticket for it, or cancelling them on the day causing mu ch more inconvenience.

What would you do?

 

[irish_rail]

This happened yesterday.



What would you do though?

Avanti drivers are not working overtime or rest days - its not a dispute though, its jst that drivers are chooisng not to volunteer. (Although AIUI a few are now doing so).

December is always the hardest month for traincrew availability, especially at weekends. Agreements with the unions will specify annual leave arrangements, and I can almost guarantee that evry available leave slot id being taken up as individuals have things to do in the run up to Christmas - visiting friends and familes for pre Christmas meals, picking up kids from Uni, going on that trip to the Christmas markets, Christmas parties etc. Even in normal circumstances its hard to cover, but with little RDW being worked its almost impossible.

So Avanti have the choice of cancelling services now and letting customers know so that they don’t even book a ticket for it, or cancelling them on the day causing mu ch more inconvenience.

What would you do?

The real question is why do Avanti continue to rely on RDW? GwR recruited copious numbers of drivers, far more than would be necessary if they were diagrammed effectively, yet for some reason Avanti don't seem allowed / able to recruit enough drivers. Or is it this reliance on only wanting to take on apprentices who take forever to train and are "unproven" , thus limiting the range of routes they can drive?

 

[Sorcerer]

I must admit, I am surprised there are still staff shortages, but given some points made above it's not the worst thing in the world. Active recruitment and training has taken place over the course of this year, and letting passengers know in advance is preferable than last minute cancellations. I think for what it's worth this won't be as much of an issue in future as long as improvements continue to be made.

 

[Bald Rick]

The real question is why do Avanti continue to rely on RDW? GwR recruited copious numbers of drivers, far more than would be necessary if they were diagrammed effectively, yet for some reason Avanti don't seem allowed / able to recruit enough drivers. Or is it this reliance on only wanting to take on apprentices who take forever to train and are "unproven" , thus limiting the range of routes they can drive?

They don’t rely on RDW, and havent for 14 months.

However the nature of the rostering / leave agreements means they (and other operators) will always be short approaching Christmas. I can guarantee that many other operators will have high cancellation rates in December, and it will all stop on January 1st. Its happened for the last decade at least, except for Dec 20.

Avanti have also had a large number of drivers leave in the last year, and as you know it takes much longer to trsin a driver than the notice period for leaving.

 

[dk1]

Never a good idea to alienate traincrew. The railway has and always will rely on goodwill. First seem to excel in this practice. Does anyone understand why?

 

[peter166]

North Wales service almost completely abandoned !

eg. Sat. 9 Dec. 1x Birmingham to Llandudno Jct. & 2 x Crewe to Llandudno Jct. services and thats it. Bus to Holyhead.

Link to December Timetables

Train Timetables | Train Schedule | Avanti West Coast

Plan your journey with our train timetables for services in the UK. Download train schedules at Avanti West Coast to check times & special services.

www.avantiwestcoast.co.uk

 

[Kite159]

Better to cancel the services in advance than many ad-hoc cancellations on the day.

And in the DfT's eyes, they can instruct some of the cheaper advances not be made available due to less space. More money.

 

[berneyarms]

North Wales service almost completely abandoned !

eg. Sat. 9 Dec. 1x Birmingham to Llandudno Jct. & 2 x Crewe to Llandudno Jct. services and thats it. Bus to Holyhead.

Link to December Timetables

Train Timetables | Train Schedule | Avanti West Coast

Plan your journey with our train timetables for services in the UK. Download train schedules at Avanti West Coast to check times & special services.

www.avantiwestcoast.co.uk

To be fair on that and the following weekend the railway line is shut west of Llandudno Junction due to engineering works.

 

[Huntergreed]

Staff shortage based cancellations seem to have increased significantly in the past month or so. Over the summer, they seemed quite reliable overall, but now that seems to have went downhill again, with a very noticeable increase in the number of staff shortage based cancellations.

I wonder if there’s been a mass resignation/retirement of staff recently? Can’t think of anything else that would cause this (as the RDW issue has been going on for well over a year now!)

 

[Bald Rick]

Staff shortage based cancellations seem to have increased significantly in the past month or so. Over the summer, they seemed quite reliable overall, but now that seems to have went downhill again, with a very noticeable increase in the number of staff shortage based cancellations.

I wonder if there’s been a mass resignation/retirement of staff recently? Can’t think of anything else that would cause this (as the RDW issue has been going on for well over a year now!)

I imagine that absence through illness is also up.