Aviation Discussion

[atillathehunn]

That could be a worry - can you disclose how you know this ?

I would imagine this is based purely on experience with Ryanair. It's not completely true, though. They still have a contract to get you from A to B. They won't do it with good grace, but they will get you there. In this instance, EU261 would apply.
BA operates in an alliance, has multiple flights from a hub airport etc. Ryanair has a thinly spread, non-alliance based network. The day for the delays to iron out of the system will be longer.

It's going to be an expensive day for BA's insurers. There will be a hit, and I think this combined with all their other cuts may be the final straw for many frequent fliers. Ultimately though I don't think it will be a catstrophe: ignorance, apathy, corporate loyalty, Executive Club loyalty will all have an influence on travel patters, to say nothing of the fact they are the largest airline out of LHR.

 

[gsnedders]

That reads to me more like he was intending to cause the maximum possible damage to the system separately as a prior act before attempting suicide afterwards? Not that the damage was a result of his attempt?

I'd agree, but it's almost certainly what was being referenced.

Ultimately though I don't think it will be a catstrophe: ignorance, apathy, corporate loyalty, Executive Club loyalty will all have an influence on travel patters, to say nothing of the fact they are the largest airline out of LHR.

And, also significantly, they're the the largest airline out of most British regional airports. Unless KLM/AF/LH start flying more from GLA/EDI (to therefore bring down average connection times), I'm likely to remain flying with BA. (Heck, when going to the US, the shortest routings via LHR require a 9ish departure, and via AMS require a 6ish departure. I know almost certainly which one I'll choose. Even looking slightly more broadly, CDG does too, and FRA to where I normally fly requires an overnight layover. DUB is more often comparable with LHR but is still IAG.)

 

[atillathehunn]

I'd agree, but it's almost certainly what was being referenced.



And, also significantly, they're the the largest airline out of most British regional airports. Unless KLM/AF/LH start flying more from GLA/EDI (to therefore bring down average connection times), I'm likely to remain flying with BA. (Heck, when going to the US, the shortest routings via LHR require a 9ish departure, and via AMS require a 6ish departure. I know almost certainly which one I'll choose. Even looking slightly more broadly, CDG does too, and FRA to where I normally fly requires an overnight layover. DUB is more often comparable with LHR but is still IAG.)

BA is particularly focused on North America. I don't think anyone else has the range of destinations across the continent from Europe. Then given BA's reasonable connection network within Europe, and to some of the major cities on Africa.... captive market. And you're right, the domestic connectivity helps - a position which will improve with the new domestic connections required through the Heathrow expansion. People have short memories. There have been other Heathrow melt downs, not related specifically to BA, and people always come back. The right price, the right journey, the right one-stop destinations, massive O&D for London.

 

[Matt Taylor]

Those flights weren't run for enthusiasts.

Airlines regularly and deliberately bed in new aircraft on short routes to train their crews and showcase their new product to the public. Air France are currently doing the exact same thing with their 787.

Finnair are still running an A350 LHR-HEL-LHR primarily due to cargo uplift.

Likewise BA ran the A380 on Frankfurt flights in the summer of 2013 and the B787 on flights to Stockholm shortly afterwards.

 

[Robertj21a]

I would imagine this is based purely on experience with Ryanair. It's not completely true, though. They still have a contract to get you from A to B. They won't do it with good grace, but they will get you there. In this instance, EU261 would apply.
BA operates in an alliance, has multiple flights from a hub airport etc. Ryanair has a thinly spread, non-alliance based network. The day for the delays to iron out of the system will be longer.
.

Quite, just as I had assumed- so it was a totally incorrect statement.

 

[atillathehunn]

Finnair also use their A350 on some LHR runs - assume similarly for training etc.

Everyone who has posted is quite correct that they fly some of the larger planes on short haul routes on their introduction - for both training and publicity. They are usually quite well published about. AFAIK absolutely nothing to do with their being a weekend break. If there is such a thing, it will be used for maintanence.

There are scheduled short-haul widebodies which have been discussed on here. BA is doing Madrid this summer on 777s, 767s occasionally appear on Edinburghs and Glasgows, as well as its usual LCA. Iberia also do London on an A340/A330 for cargo usually Sundays.

 

[gsnedders]

There are scheduled short-haul widebodies which have been discussed on here. BA is doing Madrid this summer on 777s, 767s occasionally appear on Edinburghs and Glasgows, as well as its usual LCA. Iberia also do London on an A340/A330 for cargo usually Sundays.

767s are on EDI/GLA on a daily basis except during the summer, AFAIK, for the peak flights. Sometimes some variation at weekends, mostly down to maintenance schedules AFAIK (there are only seven of them!). Note the BA 767s are all economy aircraft, unlike the others discussed above.

Whenever I've been on the Iberia A340 flights they've been well-loaded, but that may just be priced to fill the aircraft.

 

[atillathehunn]

767s are on EDI/GLA on a daily basis except during the summer, AFAIK, for the peak flights. Sometimes some variation at weekends, mostly down to maintenance schedules AFAIK (there are only seven of them!). Note the BA 767s are all economy aircraft, unlike the others discussed above.

Whenever I've been on the Iberia A340 flights they've been well-loaded, but that may just be priced to fill the aircraft.

Hadn't realised they made a daily appearance.

Shame they have gone to all economy - lie flat in business class would be nice for the 50 minutes to Edinburgh...

I would imagine the loads on the wide body Iberia are priced to shift, though I wouldn't have thought they care too much - I would think the flight washes its face on the cargo.

 

[Jetlagged]

Finnair are still running an A350 LHR-HEL-LHR primarily due to cargo uplift.

Thanks AlterEgo.

 

[gsnedders]

Hadn't realised they made a daily appearance.

Shame they have gone to all economy - lie flat in business class would be nice for the 50 minutes to Edinburgh...

This seems to have changed somewhat: my memory was them being here on both peak time flights (so arriving into Glasgow at 8:45ish, back down on the 9:15, and then another roundtrip leaving for London at 18:30ish). Certainly, I've had them numerous times at 9:15 and back north mid/late afternoon.

Beyond this summer, they seem to be on mid-afternoon flights, which surprises me—I'd always thought the reason was passenger loadings of people going London–Glasgow for the day given they never seemed to carry much freight (i.e., they'd have about as much as the average BA flight). That said, I've only ever got them "anti-peak" where loadings varied massively (after all, living here, I'm rarely flying from London early in the morning!).

 

[AlterEgo]

Thanks AlterEgo.

No problem. I wholeheartedly recommend the experience, especially in Business (provided you're smart with fares - try connecting through to Tallinn). No better value way to spend three hours flying within Europe.

 

[berneyarms]

Finnair also use their A350 on some LHR runs - assume similarly for training etc.

Everyone who has posted is quite correct that they fly some of the larger planes on short haul routes on their introduction - for both training and publicity. They are usually quite well published about. AFAIK absolutely nothing to do with their being a weekend break. If there is such a thing, it will be used for maintanence.

There are scheduled short-haul widebodies which have been discussed on here. BA is doing Madrid this summer on 777s, 767s occasionally appear on Edinburghs and Glasgows, as well as its usual LCA. Iberia also do London on an A340/A330 for cargo usually Sundays.

Note that BA doesn't overnight aircraft in Madrid and Iberia doesn't overnight aircraft in Heathrow respectively, and as a result use wide-bodies where combined they might have had two short haul aircraft in the past.

 

[atillathehunn]

Note that BA doesn't overnight aircraft in Madrid and Iberia doesn't overnight aircraft in Heathrow respectively, and as a result use wide-bodies where combined they might have had two short haul aircraft in the past.

Don't quite follow the logic there.

The IB A340 appears to be on the 18.30 from Heathrow on Sundays. BA's 777 is a summer service, and leaves London at 07.30

 

[Crawley Ben]

Various countries have suspended flights to Qatar - see link below for more details.

Looks like this could cause some aggro for anyone flying on Qatar Airways.

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/56543-arab-states-sever-ties-with-qatar-announce-blockade

Ben

 

[TheEscapist_]

Various countries have suspended flights to Qatar - see link below for more details.



Looks like this could cause some aggro for anyone flying on Qatar Airways.



https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/56543-arab-states-sever-ties-with-qatar-announce-blockade



Ben

UAE & Saudi Arabia are closing off their air space to Qatar Airways too. Imagine that'll be very awkward for then as a lot of flights fly over UAE.

I wonder what has brought this on, could I be the success of Qatar Airways is taking away business from Emirates & Etihad? Or I could just be very sceptical...

Think it's a bad decision either way, feel sorry for people who live in Qatar who are in UAE or Saudi Arabia and will struggle to get home.


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[Crawley Ben]

UAE & Saudi Arabia are closing off their air space to Qatar Airways too. Imagine that'll be very awkward for then as a lot of flights fly over UAE.

I wonder what has brought this on, could I be the success of Qatar Airways is taking away business from Emirates & Etihad? Or I could just be very sceptical...

Think it's a bad decision either way, feel sorry for people who live in Qatar who are in UAE or Saudi Arabia and will struggle to get home.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

All to do with allegations that Qatar is getting 'cosy' with Iran, amongst other things. The details should all be contained within the link I posted.

Cheers

Ben

 

[atillathehunn]

All to do with allegations that Qatar is getting 'cosy' with Iran, amongst other things. The details should all be contained within the link I posted.

Cheers

Ben

I think it's completely absurd to say that KSA, UAE, Egypt, Bahrain, Yemen would break off diplomatic ties, expell citizens and freeze trade with a country because their airline is making a few quid.

What nonsense.

There are far, far wider reaching implications of a Sunni/Shia spat on this level than airlines. While it's going to greatly influence the airline, I'm afraid that's the least of the worries.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I think it's completely absurd to say that KSA, UAE, Egypt, Bahrain, Yemen would break off diplomatic ties, expell citizens and freeze trade with a country because their airline is making a few quid.

I don't know so much, all of those countries are petty enough to do that.

But it clearly isn't that. There's something about Qatar having paid US$1billion in ransom to get their royal family members back from kidnappers in Iraq. And, I suppose, a general feeling that the Saudis are untouchable with Drumpf in the White House.

As for Qatar Airways, they're flying across the Strait of Hormuz, and presumably flicking V's out of the cockpit window as they do.

 

[atillathehunn]

I don't know so much, all of those countries are petty enough to do that.

But it clearly isn't that. There's something about Qatar having paid US$1billion in ransom to get their royal family members back from kidnappers in Iraq. And, I suppose, a general feeling that the Saudis are untouchable with Drumpf in the White House.

As for Qatar Airways, they're flying across the Strait of Hormuz, and presumably flicking V's out of the cockpit window as they do.

There are many concerns knocking around:

- closeness with Iran; religious differences, economic jealousy here might apply - Iran is a good thing to have a slice of at the moment, geopolitical concerns

- the ransom and other direct and indirect funds to terror groups. Definitely a concern, but not necessarily unique to Qatar, but their entry into this market was rather more public

- proving they can - possibly, not a sufficient condition though

- Saudi showing its commitment to ending the long-rumoured GCC monetary support to IS and other groups by throwing Qatar under the bus while shredding their own evidence of the same. Saudi positions itself even more as an ally of the US. It sends a signal to Iran - whom the Donald is an open critic of - that Saudi will partner with the US against this.

So while yes the economic factors might play a tiny, tiny part in this - they are after much, much bigger fish than the market share of the smaller of the GCC super-connectors.

I'm sure they are giving one or two sharply worded comments - the Entebbe flight had an hour and a bit added to it this morning, heading up round the top of Dubai's FIR, round over Oman, and then down.

 

[Jetlagged]

I wonder what has brought this on, could I be the success of Qatar Airways is taking away business from Emirates & Etihad? Or I could just be very sceptical...



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No, it seems to be more political than that. According to a report I read, the other Arab states are cutting off diplomatic relations with Qatar, accusing the state of supporting and encouraging IS.

 

[Tetchytyke]

There are many concerns knocking around

I think you can add the fact that al Jazeera TV have been daring to criticise the House of Saud for their behaviour in Yemen to that too.

I think Saudi is just showing who is boss, and the states who are allied to Saudi money are tagging along for the ride. I notice the Maldives have also closed their airspace to Qatar Airways.

It's a good way of showing that the House of Saud will not tolerate dissent.

Entebbe flight had an hour and a bit added to it this morning, heading up round the top of Dubai's FIR, round over Oman, and then down.

For the European and North American flights it is pretty much business as usual, flying up over Iran, Armenia and Georgia. For the eastern flights it's not much different, just flying north of the Strait of Hormuz in Iranian airspace rather than south of it into Emirati airspace.

But yes, the African flights are suffering, as they're having to fly all the way around Somalia, Yemen and the tip of the UAE. The Khartoum flight time has pretty much doubled from 3h30 to 7hr, and some of the South American flights are having to divert and refuel in Europe now.

What will be interesting is whether Iran decide to get involved too. They haven't, for now, but if they close their airspace to Saudi and Emirati aircraft then things really will get interesting.

 

[atillathehunn]

I think you can add the fact that al Jazeera TV have been daring to criticise the House of Saud for their behaviour in Yemen to that too.

I think Saudi is just showing who is boss, and the states who are allied to Saudi money are tagging along for the ride. I notice the Maldives have also closed their airspace to Qatar Airways.

It's a good way of showing that the House of Saud will not tolerate dissent.



For the European and North American flights it is pretty much business as usual, flying up over Iran, Armenia and Georgia. For the eastern flights it's not much different, just flying north of the Strait of Hormuz in Iranian airspace rather than south of it into Emirati airspace.

But yes, the African flights are suffering, as they're having to fly all the way around Somalia, Yemen and the tip of the UAE. The Khartoum flight time has pretty much doubled from 3h30 to 7hr, and some of the South American flights are having to divert and refuel in Europe now.

What will be interesting is whether Iran decide to get involved too. They haven't, for now, but if they close their airspace to Saudi and Emirati aircraft then things really will get interesting.

Yes, I forgot a bit about Al Jazeera. Saudi closed the station's office. The Qatari Emir is young, and this matters. I think there are two faces to this: Saudi reminding who is who in the GCC internally, you are right there. And then there's the external action show, shoring up their support.

However this does contrast with bin Salman's more softly softly approach he has been pushing until recently. Divesting from a solidly oil-based economy and more diverse economy and foreign policy.

Iran will be quietly calculating upon whom it can claim support if it does choose to manouevre against the Sunni blok.

 

[atillathehunn]

Almost the first full day of new operations.

Most flights not to affected countries are operating almost normally - flights to north Asia aren't affected, those to the sub-continent, SE Asia and Australia are marginally affected - direct into Iranian air space and then down, very minor deviation from their usual route.

Most European flights are on their normal track, those to Southern Europe and to North Africa are delayed quite significantly.

South America, East Africa, Southern Africa and West Africa are all being hit hard.
Many are making refuelling stops in Muscat - Zanzibar, Dar es Salaam and Kilimanjaro all made stops in Muscat, all A320 operated.

The Entebbe flight is coming into land now and it's 2 hours late from its detour.

The Khartoum flight, normally three hours, is nearly 7. Tonight they have put a 777 and an A330 onto a normally A320 flight.

The GRU flight has had to make a refuelling stop, as I believe has the morning Lagos.

Let's see how it goes from here.

 

[Tim R-T-C]

Iran will be quietly calculating upon whom it can claim support if it does choose to manouevre against the Sunni blok.

Iran has stood alone for long enough.

With Qatari support I think they should make a tit-for-tat airspace closure. Hopefully it will make both sides back down and get back to diplomacy not Trump-inspired rash, unnecessary behaviour.

 

[Bald Rick]

In other news, I broke my 14 year Ryanair boycott 2 weeks ago. I can advise that the flight met all my expectations, and the boycott is reinstated with immediate effect.

Tatty aircraft, with dreadful interior.
Vinyl seats (thought they went out with the Austin Allegro?)
Uncomfortable seats (is there less space in an FR 737 than an EZY 319/320? It felt like it.)
No seat back pockets.
V. Expensive in flight refreshment (cr*p tea and a choc bar? £4.10 please!)
Cabin crew looked entirely disinterested. Also tatty.
Appalling service at destination - basically chucked out of plane and left on the apron for 30 min whilst border control did its stuff (slowly). The last people off waited an hour, in 30C direct sun with no shade.

On the return flight our travelling companions had their cabin bags put in the hold, even though there was plenty of space in the cabin.
Plane boarded on time, then sat on the apron for over an hour due to bad weather. The same bad weather that was happening for the hour before the plane was loaded, indeed before the inbound arrived. The pilot would have known he couldn't have departed, therefore no need for it to have been loaded at that time; decidedly uncomfortable for everyone.

And all for a mere £450 return for a 90 minute flight, booked the week the flights were released (yes, for half term, but still...)

Absolute shower. If you think Ryanair are good but don't use Easyjet, I strongly recommend that you reconsider. The boys and girls in orange knock spots off them on every single measure.

 

[Tim R-T-C]

Thanks for the report. Managed to avoid them thus far, will keep doing so.

Flew Wizz Air up to Kaunas from Luton the Bank Holiday weekend. Re-affirmed my belief that their cabin bag policies are the way to go (get an under-seat bag for free, pay for cabin overhead bag or a little more for a hold bag).

We had quite big backpacks, but no problems at all fitting them in the half full overhead lockers. Boarding and exiting were much quicker and easier.

 

[LordCreed]

And all for a mere £450 return for a 90 minute flight, booked the week the flights were released (yes, for half term, but still...)

I think this is where people go wrong with Ryanair. When you pay £450 for flights, you expect a certain level of service. When like me you make use of their £10 deals, you simply expect to get from A to B with minimal fuss.

 

[Butts]

Thanks for the report. Managed to avoid them thus far, will keep doing so.

Flew Wizz Air up to Kaunas from Luton the Bank Holiday weekend. Re-affirmed my belief that their cabin bag policies are the way to go (get an under-seat bag for free, pay for cabin overhead bag or a little more for a hold bag).

We had quite big backpacks, but no problems at all fitting them in the half full overhead lockers. Boarding and exiting were much quicker and easier.

How do they manage the system to ensure only people who have paid utilise the overhead lockers ?

 

[Bletchleyite]

How do they manage the system to ensure only people who have paid utilise the overhead lockers ?

It's not done that way, it's based on the size of the bag which is checked at the gate. You can put it up if you want, but if the lockers are full will be asked to put it down.

Personally I think it's a stupid system, pointlessly confusing and awkward, and that a policy of one free item of hold luggage is vastly more sensible. I fear it may take the airlines being forced to sort this out.

 

[Bald Rick]

I think this is where people go wrong with Ryanair. When you pay £450 for flights, you expect a certain level of service. When like me you make use of their £10 deals, you simply expect to get from A to B with minimal fuss.

I wouldn't have been happy even if it had only been £10. I do plenty of sub £50 flights with EZY and the whole experience is far, far better.

You are quite right though, I do expect to get from A-B with minimal fuss. The issue is that there was a whole load of fuss.