Ayr Station Hotel Fire 28/05/2023 and now on fire again 25/09/2023

[sannox]

Hard to think it survives this gutting.

 

[D6130]

"Two male youths, aged 17 and 13, have been arrested and charged in connection with fire-raising following station hotel fire". A 17 year old was charged with arson for the earlier fire, wonder if it's the same youth?

The cynic in me wonders whether they were given a back-hander by a representative of the owner?

 

[Christmas]

For our non Scottish members wondering why it's not arson, the charge and crime in Scotland is that of willful fire-raising.

I've been reading various statements sent out by ScotRail management about a 'derelict hotel near Ayr Station'. The hotel and station are one and the same building! These people seem to be entirely clueless when it comes to railway history, probably not even knowing that this was once the property of BR, through British Transport Hotels.

 

[rossco156433]

The cynic in me wonders whether they were given a back-hander by a representative of the owner?

The Cynic in me wonders whether a back-hander came from the local council , saves them £600k+ paying for the scaffolding.

 

[SC318250]

disruption now until 0600 on 2nd Oct

 

[MadMac]

For our non Scottish members wondering why it's not arson, the charge and crime in Scotland is that of willful fire-raising.

I've been reading various statements sent out by ScotRail management about a 'derelict hotel near Ayr Station'. The hotel and station are one and the same building! These people seem to be entirely clueless when it comes to railway history, probably not even knowing that this was once the property of BR, through British Transport Hotels.

I suspect there’s at least an element of distancing themselves from the issue here.

 

[bramling]

For our non Scottish members wondering why it's not arson, the charge and crime in Scotland is that of willful fire-raising.

I've been reading various statements sent out by ScotRail management about a 'derelict hotel near Ayr Station'. The hotel and station are one and the same building! These people seem to be entirely clueless when it comes to railway history, probably not even knowing that this was once the property of BR, through British Transport Hotels.

The whole situation is utterly farcical. Indeed it’s irresponsible that it’s been able to come to this, as it’s probably a matter of nothing more than good fortune that someone hasn’t in one way or other been injured (or worse) as a consequence of the saga.

 

[Class360/1]

Bit early I suppose but have my any (silly auto-correct) photos been released today of the aftermath?

Not surprised in the slightest though

 

[zwk500]

I'm not a legal expert but I'm pretty sure the buildings owner's (or their insurers) will be liable for any disruption.

And while still a publicly funded organisation, NR undoubtedly have considerably more resources than the local council to pursue it. So that ought to motivate people wherever they may be based.

Given the previous disruption that's been caused, if NR had the resources to do any more than anybody else I think they would have done it. Having had a previous experience of trying to chase a resident of the same town about some issue on a flat who simply refused to engage in any way, I can't imagine it's going to be worth anybody's resources to pursue this internationally.

 

[High Dyke]

Bit early I suppose but have my any (silly auto-correct) photos been released today of the aftermath?

Not surprised in the slightest though

BBC News coverage here. Other media sources are available.

 

[380101]

Aerial view from today - again lifted from social media.

The extensive damage is difficult to see from above due to the scaffolding obscuring the view. Given the live footage on Facebook last night, it's safe to say that the south wing is a total loss. The north wing has suffered fire damage to the roof and parts of its top floor, but may be saveable, but I suspect it will be demolished alongside the south wing. The longer it remains, the more likelihood of it being set on fire again.

 

[Class360/1]

Thanks @380101 and @High Dyke

 

[jagardner1984]

For those not familiar, along with many small towns, it is fair to say Ayr has a struggling retail centre, with a lot of large retailers closing through the transition to out of town outlets / the transition to online / COVID / the closure of several large retailers .... the last Wilko store I set foot in .....

The railway is one of the great assets, with a pretty good service to Glasgow and then beyond, but for a long time passengers have been diverted through a funny side gate around the back of a clearly insecure building behind Heras fencing, and the fenced off areas looming large over the station.

It is the opitome of failed planning and poor local government, along with the poor governance of the railway, that such a building was not seized and either demolished in a controlled way, to give a new gateway to the town, or to find alternative use and constructive purpose for such a key building within the town.

As no such action was taken over several years, all that has happened was somewhat inevitable.

 

[Strathclyder]

And that is exceptionally optimistic from them. This will be several weeks minimum.

I can honestly see this lasting well into next year. But hey, this sorry fiasco has been ongoing for over a decade now, so what's 4-5 more months?

For those not familiar, along with many small towns, it is fair to say Ayr has a struggling retail centre, with a lot of large retailers closing through the transition to out of town outlets / the transition to online / COVID / the closure of several large retailers .... the last Wilko store I set foot in .....

The railway is one of the great assets, with a pretty good service to Glasgow and then beyond, but for a long time passengers have been diverted through a funny side gate around the back of a clearly insecure building behind Heras fencing, and the fenced off areas looming large over the station.

It is the opitome of failed planning and poor local government, along with the poor governance of the railway, that such a building was not seized and either demolished in a controlled way, to give a new gateway to the town, or to find alternative use and constructive purpose for such a key building within the town.

As no such action was taken over several years, all that has happened was somewhat inevitable.

A consise summing up of this whole sorry mess, I concur fully.

Yes, I'm fully aware of the financial pressues most local authorities are and have been under, but those same financial pressures just makes the situation of casting god knows how much public money to the four winds keeping this unstable building secure for over 10 years all the more ludicrous, to say nothing of it compromising the station's usability and safety. What happened on Monday evening was years in the making and the only - and most important obviously - saving grace is that no-one was injured.

 

[jagardner1984]

I can honestly see this lasting well into next year. But hey, this sorry fiasco has been ongoing for over a decade now, so what's 4-5 more months?


A consise summing up of this whole sorry mess, I concur fully.

Yes, I'm fully aware of the financial pressues most local authorities are and have been under, but those same financial pressures just makes the situation of casting god knows how much public money to the four winds keeping this unstable building secure for over 10 years all the more ludicrous. What happened on Monday evening was years in the making and the only - and most important obviously - saving grace is that no-one was injured.

What is quite interesting is the number of municipal type buildings which have been successfully leased on peppercorn rent to Community Interest Companies and the like to give renewed purpose to a building. It seems when it comes to key bits of land, in significant locations, a "Use it or Lose it" order should be applicable by the local authority within a given period or the land automatically passes to the local authority to utilise or regenerate as appropriate.

 

[507020]

I spontaneously visited Ayr this year (during the Carstairs blockade) and became aware of the very sad situation regarding the station hotel.

Probably not the best question and not that it should be allowed to be lost in this way, but if the building no longer exists, is “ownership” still an issue? Otherwise, is extradition possible for the owner to engage with a CPO in Scotland?

 

[james73]

A very Glaswegian end to a fine building. Sad to see.

 

[och aye]

Just to echo the comments made by others, what a (probable) sad ending to this sorry saga. The only positive is that nobody was hurt as a result of this irresponsible behaviour.

I just hope if whats left of the building is town down, something like a transportation hub can be built in its place at the very least.

As @james73 mentions, Glasgow has had many wonderful buildings go up in smoke (pardon the pun) over the years.

 

[MadMac]

The Cynic in me wonders whether a back-hander came from the local council , saves them £600k+ paying for the scaffolding.

That scaffolding appears to be severely damaged in some places and may well be a total loss, so SAC may well be on the hook for replacing it. Notwithstanding that, it’s quite possibly beyond being able to be dismantled: remember, it’s been heated well beyond any temperature it would encounter in normal use and may need to be cut up on site.

 

[Strathclyder]

What is quite interesting is the number of municipal type buildings which have been successfully leased on peppercorn rent to Community Interest Companies and the like to give renewed purpose to a building. It seems when it comes to key bits of land, in significant locations, a "Use it or Lose it" order should be applicable by the local authority within a given period or the land automatically passes to the local authority to utilise or regenerate as appropriate.

Am honestly quite surprised this isn't a thing already, as I can see the benefits, at least in principle. Can't see it happening in the current climate sadly.

I just hope if whats left of the building is town down, something like a transportation hub can be built in its place at the very least.

If South Ayrshire Council, ScotRail, Network Rail, Transport Scotland and the local bus operators (primarily Stagecoach) knocked their heads together, that is. Am not holding my breath though.

As @james73 mentions, Glasgow has had many wonderful buildings go up in smoke (pardon the pun) over the years.

Glasgow primarily, yes (silently seethes about the Glasgow School of Art). Seems to be an endemic thing for the West Coast of Scotland though.

 

[MadMac]

Word is that they’ll start running to Prestwick tomorrow.

 

[zwk500]

Probably not the best question and not that it should be allowed to be lost in this way, but if the building no longer exists, is “ownership” still an issue?

Yes, the land is still owned and the owner is still ultimately responsible for what happens with the remains.

Otherwise, is extradition possible for the owner to engage with a CPO in Scotland?

I doubt that extradition would be seen as a reasonable response. A CPO or whatever the scottish equivalent is would be extremely unlikely to meet the threshold for an extradition treaty even if the UK has one with the country where the owner is. Even if it did, the amount of time and legal resources it would tie up fighting this through the courts to secure such and order, and then the police resources to actually effect the extradition, would be completely disproportionate.
If the owner doesn't want to engage with a CPO, then that's *better* for the council as they will be far more likely to win the case. The cost of paying whatever the court determines the value to be will be far lower than trying to extradite somebody. Abandoning a property is hardly a serious crime, sad though this example may be. Remember it's just as likely to be bored youths mucking about as some nefarious back-handed plot.

 

[Bill57p9]

Indeed, Glasgow services are now running to/from Prestwick Town turning back in Falkland Yard.
To the south services continue between Stranraer and Girvan.

 

[Trainbike46]

There were reports earlier this month that the building was in a much better state (structurally speaking) than previously thought, making reuse of the building into something new more possible - and then it got set on fire for the second time this year. I'm sure it will be a sad look next time I'm passing through Ayr station

I agree there should have been a way for the council (together with Network Rail) to seize the building by now - it has been going on for ages, and if nothing else proceedings to take ownership may have moved the owner to do something with it

 

[Mordac]

Knock it down and stop crying over split milk.

 

[Trainbike46]

Knock it down and stop crying over split milk.

That is likely the outcome now - still runs into the ownership problem though

 

[Rick1984]

If the don't take the opportunity to move the frankly appalling bus station to a new transport hub at the station, then I really do despair

 

[SC318250]

Again please move if needs to be speclative
If hotel is fully knocked down, which looking at pictures the part that is on platform 3 and at buffer ends of platform 1 and 2, just on concourse, then I wonder if platform 1 & 2 will be extended to 8 car platforms

 

[John Luxton]

I have only ever visited Ayr once, that was in August 2003 when I spent a couple of days there for PS WAVERLEY sailings. I actually stayed at the Station Hotel - it was not bad, slightly faded Victorian grandeur - but a very interesting piece of railway architecture. I am just very cross with myself that I only took two photographs and they were both interior shots. However, after finding photos of the hotel on an urban exploration site several years ago I have been following its demise on line.

Delving into the history of the hotel suggests it was sold off very soon after nationalisation in 1951 unlike the majority of railway hotels which remained with BTH until the privatisations began. Selling it seemed a strange thing to do when the building forms an integral part of the station or was it a case it was underperforming as far back as the early 1950s?

Anyway my two photos from August 2003. The ancient lift was fascinating. A recorded message played continually in the lift reminding users to close the gates other wise the lift could not be summoned to other floors!
The other photograph shows the whisky bar which was on the first floor and overlooked the station platform.

 

[bramling]

Knock it down and stop crying over split milk.

That will no doubt be what happens, however there is a danger that this legitimises the whole thing. To be fair in this specific case it may well be that the saga has its origins in a loosely written contractual agreement some years ago, but the whole saga is nonetheless a complete farce, and a dangerous one.