The problem is compelling somebody to do something after they've done sweet naff all for a very long time. The Scottish government could not force this person to contract builders and any threat of punitive action would be meaningless to somebody not resident in the UK. The best option is for the local council to use a CPO or equivalent and then arrange for disposal of the site to somebody who will actually build something, while putting a court order on the original owner for the costs incurred. Of course, until he does pay up (if he ever does), the costs will need to be met with public funding.
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Ayr Station Hotel Fire 28/05/2023 and now on fire again 25/09/2023
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Strathclyder
Established Member
As a West Scotland resident, all this news does is reinforce my immensely cynical view on the subject of 'abandoned/disused historic building gets repurposed/refurbished' and I make no apologies for that. Any perfectly rational explanation I'd begrudgingly accept, but with how often this has happened in this region of Scotland, can you really blame me for my cynicism?
For every such success story, there are at least a dozen more of historic buildings meeting fates similar to that of Ayr Hotel: abandoned and left to rot, bought by a ambitious new owner with grand plans for a rebirth or repurposing which inevitably stalls one way or the other, the council/local authority gets involved, a legal battle ensures and the building in the middle continues to deteriorate until some 'timely intervention' necessitates it's demolition and ultimate replacement.
The one and only thing that even remotely surprises me is that it took so long for something like this to happen, regardless of how it actually happened (just look at the state the building was left to get into). This is far from the first abandoned/disused building in the west of Scotland to go up in smoke (I could name several in the last few years alone) and it won't be the last.
Quite honestly, I'm surprised the Egyptian Halls in central Glasgow - not a railway related structure, but it's directly across the street from Glasgow Central, so it's at least relevent by proximity - hasn't gone the same way. Though if anything there were to go up, it would be that wretched scaffolding/hoarding covering the frontage on Union St that's been there for at least 14-15 years now.
Given the legal complications surrounding this building (CPOs, owner not being a UK resident et al), this fire may well drag this pathetic saga out even further rather than expediting something, anything, actually being done. And in the meantime, passengers will have to continue to circimnavigate that convoluted entrance/exit in and out of a sad, disheveled shell of a station with the husk of the railways' past importance looming over them. They, and Ayr as a whole, deserve much better than the utter shambles all parties involved have left them with.
No doubt, since the owner isn't likely to set foot on UK soil anytime soon, the public purse will be footing the bill for whatever is done. Which in situations like this, is about as surprising as the Sun setting in the West every evening.
For every such success story, there are at least a dozen more of historic buildings meeting fates similar to that of Ayr Hotel: abandoned and left to rot, bought by a ambitious new owner with grand plans for a rebirth or repurposing which inevitably stalls one way or the other, the council/local authority gets involved, a legal battle ensures and the building in the middle continues to deteriorate until some 'timely intervention' necessitates it's demolition and ultimate replacement.
The one and only thing that even remotely surprises me is that it took so long for something like this to happen, regardless of how it actually happened (just look at the state the building was left to get into). This is far from the first abandoned/disused building in the west of Scotland to go up in smoke (I could name several in the last few years alone) and it won't be the last.
Quite honestly, I'm surprised the Egyptian Halls in central Glasgow - not a railway related structure, but it's directly across the street from Glasgow Central, so it's at least relevent by proximity - hasn't gone the same way. Though if anything there were to go up, it would be that wretched scaffolding/hoarding covering the frontage on Union St that's been there for at least 14-15 years now.
Given the legal complications surrounding this building (CPOs, owner not being a UK resident et al), this fire may well drag this pathetic saga out even further rather than expediting something, anything, actually being done. And in the meantime, passengers will have to continue to circimnavigate that convoluted entrance/exit in and out of a sad, disheveled shell of a station with the husk of the railways' past importance looming over them. They, and Ayr as a whole, deserve much better than the utter shambles all parties involved have left them with.
No doubt, since the owner isn't likely to set foot on UK soil anytime soon, the public purse will be footing the bill for whatever is done. Which in situations like this, is about as surprising as the Sun setting in the West every evening.
Just like at Dalmuir (I know there was no fire there, but still). Honestly surprised that anything at all was built to replace most of them and I was even more surprised that a event horizon didn't occur shortly afterwards.
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No, the facts of that case are materially different.
Buzby
Member
Of the various options promulgated by the Local Ayrshire paper, there appeared to be no difficulty in pursuing the owner (or his UK representative) but serving a compulsory purchase order requires an assessment of a ‘fair’ price but South Ayrshire Council have no spare money on such projects, especially when they agreed to the demolition of 3 medium-rise flats, whilst forgetting that on the roof of one of them a mobile network still had 5 years to run on its contract for its base station and would be due a sizeable rebate if the demolition went ahead.
The least-worst option was to let it fall down, because the scaffolding, plastic-wrap and security is costing the taxpayers (via the council) a fortune that would make your eyes water. As much as I wish the building could be retained, it all boils down to money, and nobody’s got any spare.
The least-worst option was to let it fall down, because the scaffolding, plastic-wrap and security is costing the taxpayers (via the council) a fortune that would make your eyes water. As much as I wish the building could be retained, it all boils down to money, and nobody’s got any spare.
Strathclyder
Established Member
Let it deteriotate in the hopes an eventual fire accelerates the process, which is what has happened here (and countless other times elsewhere in this part of the world). It's certainly a fire of convenience, in that it removes this financial millstone from around both the council's and owner's proverbial necks. Let's not lose sight of one thing though: the taxpayer was gonna be stumping up a good chunk of the cash to knock it down, fire damaged or not.
As for the lack of money, I just hope the council (and SG) keep that in mind whenever it comes to redeveloping the station and moving on from this utter shambles, especially given the amount of money that's no doubt been cast to the four winds on keeping the rotting husk of a hotel secure/stable for lord knows how many years now at the expense of the station's usabilty and overall safety. Of course, they'll take the flak for a money tree suddenly being found where there wasn't one before if it means the possibilty of reaping political capital from a proposed redevelopment of the station (and people wonder why I'm so cynical).
I for one, would've preferred that the hotel be kept in some form, but that's more of a fantasy now than it was the day before the fire. All I can do, then as now, is bitterly fume and mutter 'it is what it is' to myself in order to stop myself from repeatedly head-desking.
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Buzby
Member
Seconded. I just hope the beneficial owner in no way profits from this unmitigated disaster….
Wasn’t there a fire at Troon, just four stations up the line?
Strathclyder
Established Member
Yes, back in July 2021. The work to build a replacement structure was only given the go ahead eariler this year (sorry for the Daily Record link) and is scheduled, subject to the usual delays, to be finished before next year's Open Golf tournament:
Replacement for fire-ravaged Troon station is given the green light
Network Rail hopes to have the new building up an running before the The Open golf tournament in 2024
Somehow, I think similar such work at Ayr will take a sight longer than that being done at Troon. That is, if Ayr is even lucky enough to get a replacement structure that isn't a bus shelter.
Seconded on the latter point, but given the way these situations often end, I can't say I'm at all optimistic.
NotATrainspott
Established Member
- Joined
- 2 Feb 2013
- Messages
- 3,224
The council can demand all it wants. It doesn't mean it'll actually happen. You can't force someone to spend money rebuilding something.
All that planning, conservation and listed building policy can do is reduce the range of options available to landowners, not create them. If a reconstruction is compatible with the other intentions for a site, then there's no reason it can't happen. I mentioned in the linked thread about the hotel on the Royal Mile that had a faithful facade restoration almost 50 years after it was destroyed by fire. But, that only happened because a developer was happy to put up a building of the right scale there, and it worked just fine to apply the original facade to it. The cost of meeting the requirement was low and the benefit of building something there was high, so the thing happened.
Would that happen in Ayr? No. Once the building is gone, it will never be rebuilt.
There already is such a mechanism, but it is (rightfully) complex because it contains safeguards to protect private property and the legitimate and legal rights of landowners.
Local authorities are also generally reluctant to use it because even if they don’t have to pay compensation for the acquisition of the property they are then left holding the baby.
It's right that private property is protected, but given how long this case has been dragging on, it seems that the process is too long winded.
Be careful what you wish for though.
The two 17yr olds were arrested the next day on suspicion of Willful fire raising (there is no such crime as arson in Scotland).
CCTV footage had caught them entering the building on the afternoon it happened. On arrival of the Fire service it had not been confirmed they had left, which is why the firefighters initially entered the building as part of a search and rescue operation. I believe the original fire fighting plan for the building in its current state was to fight it from the outside only due to the dangers within. The fire was confined to a small area of the ground floor and caused no structural damage.
Surprised this hasn’t been mentioned yet.
Currently a quite serious looking fire occurring at the Station Hotel in Ayr:
We can only hope that those involved and in the area are okay and that the building and railway infrastructure aren’t too seriously damaged.
Currently a quite serious looking fire occurring at the Station Hotel in Ayr:
We can only hope that those involved and in the area are okay and that the building and railway infrastructure aren’t too seriously damaged.
Photo shows a serious fire damaging the station hotel building in Ayr, with visible flames and smoke
Scotrail314209
Established Member
And it’s on fire again…
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Isn't it funny how listed buildings seem to catch fire when someone wants to demolish them?
swt_passenger
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 7 Apr 2010
- Messages
- 31,527
“Naughty tramps“, as they’d probably say in the Skyscraper City forums…
Strathclyder
Established Member
I was gonna go off on one here, but after backing off and letting my head clear a bit, I'll just quote two of my prior posts in this thread as they are more relevent now than they were back in May, as this fire looks far more serious than the last one:
fgwrich
Established Member
Indeed. Perhaps the whole lot should be demolished and bus shelters put in their place?
MadMac
Member
It appears to have spread to the “sheeted” section with reports of structural collapse and explosions inside. It’s done.
Ayrshire Roy
Member
- Joined
- 8 Feb 2019
- Messages
- 74
From the videos I've seen it looks like the cover is majorly hindering the firefighters as they can only get water to the roof.
I'm guessing there will just be a shell in the morning.
www.google.com
www.google.com
I'm guessing there will just be a shell in the morning.
Tower collapses at Station Hotel as fire crews continue to battle blaze
A huge fire is spreading rapidly across the Station Hotel as our reporter tells of an explosion.
Huge explosion heard from devastating Ayr Station Hotel blaze - live updates
A fire has erupted at Ayr's iconic Station Hotel this evening.
mirodo
Member
- Joined
- 7 Nov 2011
- Messages
- 644
Two derelict pubs in Croydon, 200m apart, simultaneously went on fire at the beginning of the month. Not at all suspicious.
hexagon789
Veteran Member
The iconic tower has collapsed and the building appears to be starting to cave in on itself in places.
I think it's truly finished this time.
In the immediate aftermath though, I'm wondering if Network Rail are being optimistic in estimating line open at 1200 tomorrow.
I think it's truly finished this time.
In the immediate aftermath though, I'm wondering if Network Rail are being optimistic in estimating line open at 1200 tomorrow.
Merle Haggard
Established Member
.In Northampton, over the years, there's been two approaches to an inconvenient listed building 1) Torch it - sorry - I mean it accidentally catches fire 2) Turn up at 4 a.m. Sunday morning with bulldozers and work quickly. Never any penalty.
In the Black Country the new owners of the Crooked House pub did 1) and then 2) (both allegedly*) - you have to be certain, don't you... *arrests have been made, very unusually.
The protective sheeting is causing major issues for the firefighting effort. Strong southerly winds here at the moment which have fanned the flames and helped to spread the fire.
It appears they are now conducting a controlled burn and will allow it to burn to the ground.
Unlikely to be any services into Ayr tomorrow, or for the foreseeable future. The scaffolding will undoubtedly have been affected by the intense heat, and liable to collapse.
It appears they are now conducting a controlled burn and will allow it to burn to the ground.
Unlikely to be any services into Ayr tomorrow, or for the foreseeable future. The scaffolding will undoubtedly have been affected by the intense heat, and liable to collapse.
Attachments
MadMac
Member
NR tweeted a few minutes ago that they are now able to access the site to check for any damage to their infrastructure. The position should become clearer overnight.