Azuma seating

[trebor79]

Are they being replaced though? I get why punters want them to be, but I've seen no suggestion that they will be.

If LNER seats are getting replaced, then it’s news to LNER staff.

Exactly.
Therefore the anonymous mandarin who signed off on the seats did a good job according to the DfT. "Buy the cheapest possible".

 

[class26]

If LNER seats are getting replaced, then it’s news to LNER staff.

LNER are currently conducting a survey into the seating on their trains. Not sure what can be read into that ...................

 

[800001]

LNER are currently conducting a survey into the seating on their trains. Not sure what can be read into that ...................

But, as I said, currently they are not getting replaced, There is no indication they are getting replaced.
David Horne is very open with his staff in a weekly email, and communicates if things are in the pipeline, being discussed etc, nothing has been said by him.
The only thing in seats openly being talked about and happening, is the changing of the leather headrest in first class.

 

[Kite159]

LNER are currently conducting a survey into the seating on their trains. Not sure what can be read into that ...................

That they have new trains on order and are looking for opinions for what seats to fit to those new trains.

 

[takno]

LNER are currently conducting a survey into the seating on their trains. Not sure what can be read into that ...................

Not very much given that many of the potential passengers have been driven away several years ago by the unviable seats. They should maybe hang out at the airport and survey passengers there instead

 

[JonathanH]

Not very much given that many of the potential passengers have been driven away several years ago by the unviable seats.

That clearly isn't true as their passenger numbers aren't falling.

 

[takno]

That clearly isn't true as their passenger numbers aren't falling.

Right, but then the population of the cities along the line has been increasing pretty rapidly. It's possible to lose customers at the same time as gaining others. My point is applicable to more than just the seats - you need to survey the addressable market not just the portion of the market you currently have.

 

[800001]

Not very much given that many of the potential passengers have been driven away several years ago by the unviable seats. They should maybe hang out at the airport and survey passengers there instead

You really should speak to LNER and ask how many complaints they get about seats, very very very few.
Customers numbers went down due to Covid, but rapidly increased to precovid levels.
I travel many hours a week in standard class on Azuma, and guess what, am yet to hear of a person complaining.
The complaints I see, only seem to be on this forum of Facebook enthusiast groups, usually from people who have not travelled on an Azuma. But have read about complaint or seen pictures of the ‘horrible’ seats.

Yes, some people will find the seat uncomfortable, like people on every train in the country do (I hate the seats on northern 156s, doesn’t mean droves of customers have deserted northern).

 

[takno]

You really should speak to LNER and ask how many complaints they get about seats, very very very few.
Customers numbers went down due to Covid, but rapidly increased to precovid levels.
I travel many hours a week in standard class on Azuma, and guess what, am yet to hear of a person complaining.
The complaints I see, only seem to be on this forum of Facebook enthusiast groups, usually from people who have not travelled on an Azuma. But have read about complaint or seen pictures of the ‘horrible’ seats.

Yes, some people will find the seat uncomfortable, like people on every train in the country do (I hate the seats on northern 156s, doesn’t mean droves of customers have deserted northern).

Why would people complain to LNER about the seats? It's not like LNER are magically going to be able to change them. You just stop travelling with them. I know a fair number of (mostly shorter) people who cope with them just fine. I also know a a few people who have switched to air or just use Lumo, but they didn't write an angry letter to LNER, they just changed their travel arrangements.

Irrespective of that, nobody who has travelled recently on the slightly older GWR versions would order the same bottom cushions again, because they have failed catastrophically and quite quickly. It's difficult not to conclude that this is an issue LNER will be facing on a wide scale quite soon.

 

[800001]

Why would people complain to LNER about the seats? It's not like LNER are magically going to be able to change them. You just stop travelling with them. I know a fair number of (mostly shorter) people who cope with them just fine. I also know a a few people who have switched to air or just use Lumo, but they didn't write an angry letter to LNER, they just changed their travel arrangements.

Irrespective of that, nobody who has travelled recently on the slightly older GWR versions would order the same bottom cushions again, because they have failed catastrophically and quite quickly. It's difficult not to conclude that this is an issue LNER will be facing on a wide scale quite soon.

Because people complain about anything and everything, if they find the seats uncomfortable then they will complain to LNER. A complaint could be as simple as a tweet, doesn’t have to be pen and paper.

 

[takno]

Because people complain about anything and everything, if they find the seats uncomfortable then they will complain to LNER. A complaint could be as simple as a tweet, doesn’t have to be pen and paper.

Ugh. Twitter-driven customer service is another of LNER's great failings. Most people aren't on Twitter, most people on Twitter don't actually post, and even amongst LNER's customers who are on Twitter and post, only a small proportion would bother to engage with a transport company.

The things people will actively engage with customer service on are things which they believe can change or where they can be helped - alternative trains, changes of ticket. If you think the entire service proposition is irretrievably rubbish you just go elsewhere.

 

[800001]

Ugh. Twitter-driven customer service is another of LNER's great failings. Most people aren't on Twitter, most people on Twitter don't actually post, and even amongst LNER's customers who are on Twitter and post, only a small proportion would bother to engage with a transport company.

The things people will actively engage with customer service on are things which they believe can change or where they can be helped - alternative trains, changes of ticket. If you think the entire service proposition is irretrievably rubbish you just go elsewhere.

You have you opinion, I have mine, but trust me, people complain a lot over twitter, including LNER, direct messaging on twitter is popular, just because anyone else can’t see it, doesn’t mean it isn’t happening.

No further comment from me on your post, as you dispute everything I say, I know full well what complaints, how many complaints etc are made to LNER, so know full well what is being said by customers.

 

[williamn]

I do the London-Aberdeen jaunt on LNER every 2-3 months and have zero problem with seat comfort. Yes, they could be more luxurious, but I don't find them actively uncomfortable.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I do the London-Aberdeen jaunt on LNER every 2-3 months and have zero problem with seat comfort. Yes, they could be more luxurious, but I don't find them actively uncomfortable.

It is odd how views vary between person and seat (on GWR, some have collapsed and others haven't).

I suspect it is closely related to how heavy the person is and thus how much they compress the cushion so they expose the "metal bar". Without that issue I find the seat absolutely fine, and indeed I quite like the TfW ones which have a different shape of base without the "bar" (it's not just a thicker cushion - however far you push it down with your hand it simply isn't there at all).

All LNER and GWR need to do is replace the bases with the TfW design - problem solved. They're going to need to on GWR anyway, many of them have totally collapsed.

 

[Blindtraveler]

My friend's daughter did Edinburgh and back in the day last week to collect and bring back to the South a casket full of ashes. She is a size 10 if she's lucky and weighs nothing but even she had metal bar issues and on the way back her reserved seat had indeed collapsed, she couldn't find any empty seats in her carriage or the adjoining ones so mentioned it to the train manager in the hope that he'd give her a form to fill out for a refund but instead he upgraded her to first class which as she was going southbound and was very tired by that point she was grateful of,

 

[danbarjon]

It is odd how views vary between person and seat (on GWR, some have collapsed and others haven't).

I suspect it is closely related to how heavy the person is and thus how much they compress the cushion so they expose the "metal bar". Without that issue I find the seat absolutely fine, and indeed I quite like the TfW ones which have a different shape of base without the "bar" (it's not just a thicker cushion - however far you push it down with your hand it simply isn't there at all).

All LNER and GWR need to do is replace the bases with the TfW design - problem solved. They're going to need to on GWR anyway, many of them have totally collapsed.

I somehow find an LNER 4 hour journey more comfortable than a TPE 1 hour journey that's because I can feel a bar sticking into my legs on the TPE one through the bottom seat cushion.

 

[KGX]

You really should speak to LNER and ask how many complaints they get about seats, very very very few.

Wouldn't read much into that. Not many would email/write to complain about the seat.

I personally don't mind them too much. A big downgrade on what we had before, but they are okay. I usually travel in first and find it relatively comfortable.

Anecdotally, there have been three separate occasions recently where I've encouraged friends to go first to Edinburgh from London, rather than flying, and they've all said the same thing. Unimpressed with seat/carriage. Doesn't feel like first. Not comparable to Eurostar SP or even first to Manchester etc etc. Perhaps a coincidence.

Seems like the GOV spent billions on new trains, and instead of receiving the credit for it, the DfT made a false economy by scrimping and saving on the parts that the customer interacts with. The parts that actually form their impression of the train. A missed opportunity.

 

[class26]

That clearly isn't true as their passenger numbers aren't falling.

or perhaps even more passengers would be travelling IF the seats were better ?

 

[Bletchleyite]

or perhaps even more passengers would be travelling IF the seats were better ?

LNER fill most of their trains - part of the price increase trial was to price people off some trains, so I doubt they're bothered.

 

[bramling]

Wouldn't read much into that. Not many would email/write to complain about the seat.

I personally don't mind them too much. A big downgrade on what we had before, but they are okay. I usually travel in first and find it relatively comfortable.

Anecdotally, there have been three separate occasions recently where I've encouraged friends to go first to Edinburgh from London, rather than flying, and they've all said the same thing. Unimpressed with seat/carriage. Doesn't feel like first. Not comparable to Eurostar SP or even first to Manchester etc etc. Perhaps a coincidence.

Seems like the GOV spent billions on new trains, and instead of receiving the credit for it, the DfT made a false economy by scrimping and saving on the parts that the customer interacts with. The parts that actually form their impression of the train. A missed opportunity.

This summarises the IET quite well. The passenger ambience is okay (and the seats would be were not for the issue of collapsing bases). But they’re nothing-at-all special, and could have been a lot better. They compare disfavourably to a Mk4.

When one considers some of the other quality issues which have arisen with the build, the restrictive contractual arrangements with Hitachi surrounding their usage, the unimpressive availability, and the enormous cost, and one can’t escape the conclusion that someone messed up with these trains. I can’t help but get the feeling that we are going to see more and more issues come to light as the years pass.

 

[Bletchleyite]

When one considers some of the other quality issues which have arisen with the build, the restrictive contractual arrangements with Hitachi surrounding their usage, the unimpressive availability, and the enormous cost, and one can’t escape the conclusion that someone messed up with these trains. I can’t help but get the feeling that we are going to see more and more issues come to light as the years pass.

Agreed. I suspect Señor CAF is likely to benefit from that!

 

[trebor79]

Agreed. I suspect Señor CAF is likely to benefit from that!

Or Mr Stadler!

 

[irish_rail]

I think the "metal bar" is far more of an issue to those in the population of a lower or healthy weight. I suspect those with extra padding on the rear will notice the metal bar far less than those with a less padded posterior! So it may be fine for some, but extremely uncomfortable for others. It's quite frustrating on here when some say a seat is fine just because they are OK with it. I cannot comment on Azumas, but the GWR seats are BROKEN, that's a fact, and one upper management privately admit. I suspect if the Azumas haven't already succumbed , they soon will.

 

[greyman42]

You really should speak to LNER and ask how many complaints they get about seats, very very very few.
Customers numbers went down due to Covid, but rapidly increased to precovid levels.
I travel many hours a week in standard class on Azuma, and guess what, am yet to hear of a person complaining.
The complaints I see, only seem to be on this forum of Facebook enthusiast groups, usually from people who have not travelled on an Azuma. But have read about complaint or seen pictures of the ‘horrible’ seats.

Yes, some people will find the seat uncomfortable, like people on every train in the country do (I hate the seats on northern 156s, doesn’t mean droves of customers have deserted northern).

I am a regular traveller on LNER and don't like the seats at all but i have not made a complaint as i don't think LNER will address it. I am sure there are many others like myself in this regard.

 

[Neptune]

It's quite frustrating on here when some say a seat is fine just because they are OK with it.

It swings both ways though. This theory is equally applied when people complain about something just because they ‘aren’t’ ok with it.

 

[dk1]

I thought it was very clever of LNER to offer the chance to ‘enjoy the comfort of our Azuma seats in your own home’ as an April Fools joke a couple of years back. Think they shew as on sale for £150

 

[RunRepeat]

I've just returned from a Peterborough to Edinburgh return trip involving three different 801s. Previously I have noticed the uncomfortable bar from time to time, but this time it was every seat I sat on in coaches A & B. I moved a couple of times on each journey to test I wasn't just unlucky. I also overheard people sitting behind me complaining. They seem to be fine if sitting bolt upright with your backside pressed back on the seat base which in reality nobody does, especially on a longer journey. I'm not particularly heavy and a relatively healthy build.

 

[irish_rail]

I've just returned from a Peterborough to Edinburgh return trip involving three different 801s. Previously I have noticed the uncomfortable bar from time to time, but this time it was every seat I sat on in coaches A & B. I moved a couple of times on each journey to test I wasn't just unlucky. I also overheard people sitting behind me complaining. They seem to be fine if sitting bolt upright with your backside pressed back on the seat base which in reality nobody does, especially on a longer journey. I'm not particularly heavy and a relatively healthy build.

I've also noticed that if you manage to sit absolutely bolt upright the seat is slightly less bad, but the seat isn't really designed for the back shape of the majority of the population I'd argue. I for one struggle to sit bolt upright in the IET seat due to its shape which I presume is designed around the average height female.

 

[Davester50]

The sensible thing to do from a comfort perspective is to use Scotrail North of Edinburgh and consider going down the West Coast route South of Edinburgh.

No thanks.
I'll take the leg room of the Azuma over the twisted position I find you end up in on the Avanti.

 

[Mikey C]

Having experienced the metal bar twice yesterday on thankfully relatively short GWR journeys, what I don't understand is how a seat cushion can collapse so quickly.

Surely seats are designed to last much longer than that, especially a seat designed more for commuter trains. I don't recall any Electrostar/Desiro seats deteriorating so quickly, for example.