Barrier acceptance issue at Manchester Vic

[BurtonM]

Since the timetable change, the gateline at Manchester Victoria has stopped accepting my 16-25 discounted Anytime Singles and Returns, and Off Peak Returns from Manchester Central zone to Stalybridge and vice versa. The gateline states 'ticket not valid at this location', and the only restriction on the ticket (when it's off peak anyway) is ND which is only a peak time restriction. I don't think it's a case of them having switched the barriers to reject Railcard tickets, as whenever I show barrier staff my tickets they barely even look at the ticket let alone ask for my Railcard before opening the gate.
Anyone have any idea what could be causing the rejection?
I'm generally travelling with a bike so it's fairly difficult to find barrier staff without getting in everyones way, assuming they aren't manning the wide gate.

 

[Wallsendmag]

It's because the route has changed to 01000 which won't work in Northern's S&B gates . We have only just cracked it ourselves.

 

[Starmill]

Indeed. Tickets on this flow are now route '.' rather than route Any Permitted.

This is apparently for your benefit, because customers find simply a dot clearer than the words 'Any permitted'. Especially when it doesn't open the gates.

 

[ys123]

I had a Manchester Victoria to Manchester Oxford Road ticket (first time travelling on the Ordsall Chord today) refused by the automatic barrier at Victoria today. Sometimes I can understand why the barrier might refuse a ticket as the routeing guide is abit complicated but in this case...

 

[Wallsendmag]

I had a Manchester Victoria to Manchester Oxford Road ticket (first time travelling on the Ordsall Chord today) refused by the automatic barrier at Victoria today. Sometimes I can understand why the barrier might refuse a ticket as the routeing guide is abit complicated but in this case...

See above

 

[SSp]

I had a Manchester Victoria to Manchester Oxford Road ticket (first time travelling on the Ordsall Chord today) refused by the automatic barrier at Victoria today. Sometimes I can understand why the barrier might refuse a ticket as the routeing guide is abit complicated but in this case...

Maybe they thought it would be quicker to walk?

 

[ys123]

Maybe they thought it would be quicker to walk?

The ticket office told me that!

 

[sheff1]

The gateline states 'ticket not valid at this location',

So another gateline where people with valid tickets are being accused of committing a criminal offence. Leeds has been doing this for years. An industry poster on here promised to fix the matter a long time ago but, as expected, nothing was done.

 

[Clip]

So another gateline where people with valid tickets are being accused of committing a criminal offence. Leeds has been doing this for years. An industry poster on here promised to fix the matter a long time ago but, as expected, nothing was done.

who is accusing who of committing a criminal offence? You surely cant mean a non human barrier because that eould be silly so im interested in who this person is

 

[_toommm_]

So another gateline where people with valid tickets are being accused of committing a criminal offence. Leeds has been doing this for years. An industry poster on here promised to fix the matter a long time ago but, as expected, nothing was done.

Happened to me with a Man. Picc. to Leeds TPE advance. I did have the 16-18 discount on so I don't know if it was throwing it out because of that?

Interestingly they took a long hard look at my student card (which is from a South Yorkshire college) and ummed and arred at it quite a bit.

 

[takno]

Happened to me with a Man. Picc. to Leeds TPE advance. I did have the 16-18 discount on so I don't know if it was throwing it out because of that?

Interestingly they took a long hard look at my student card (which is from a South Yorkshire college) and ummed and arred at it quite a bit.

Overall I'd say that when people are umming and ahhing over a proof of ID or age it's usually because they think it's probably dodgy but know they're going to have to accept it in the end anyway. It's a kind of way to stress you out and punish you while making them feel like they actually have some authority. Not generally worth worrying about too much.

 

[Haywain]

Overall I'd say that when people are umming and ahhing over a proof of ID or age it's usually because they think it's probably dodgy but know they're going to have to accept it in the end anyway. It's a kind of way to stress you out and punish you while making them feel like they actually have some authority. Not generally worth worrying about too much.

Or it could just be someone trying to recall something they were told about years ago from the further reaches of their mind because they actually care about getting things right.

 

[_toommm_]

Or it could just be someone trying to recall something they were told about years ago from the further reaches of their mind because they actually care about getting things right.

Or someone bad at maths trying to work out whether a DOB of 24/06/99 makes you 18 or 19

 

[takno]

Or it could just be someone trying to recall something they were told about years ago from the further reaches of their mind because they actually care about getting things right.

Well, true enough, but if you know the ID is valid then the likely upshot of that is that they will end up accepting it. Either way it's not worth getting stressed about

 

[Wallsendmag]

So another gateline where people with valid tickets are being accused of committing a criminal offence. Leeds has been doing this for years. An industry poster on here promised to fix the matter a long time ago but, as expected, nothing was done.

That is a standard message from S&B Gatelines when the ticket data isn't in the logic.

 

[sheff1]

That is a standard message from S&B Gatelines when the ticket data isn't in the logic.

So it is standard for certain types of gateline to flash a message at a passenger categorically stating that their ticket "is not valid at this location" when, in fact, the gateline has no information as to whether the ticket is valid at the location or not ? Surely the "seek assistance" message seen at many gatelines should be the correct response at all gatelines.

No reputable organisation would knowingly have an opening gambit of telling a customer they attempting to do something illegal when they have no credible information to back up that assertion.

 

[Wallsendmag]

So it is standard for certain types of gateline to flash a message at a passenger categorically stating that their ticket "is not valid at this location" when, in fact, the gateline has no information as to whether the ticket is valid at the location or not ? Surely the "seek assistance" message seen at many gatelines should be the correct response at all gatelines.

No reputable organisation would knowingly have an opening gambit of telling a customer they attempting to do something illegal when they have no credible information to back up that assertion.

It's basically saying that the ticket isn't known to the gate

 

[sheff1]

It's basically saying that the ticket isn't known to the gate

No, it is unequivocally stating that the ticket "is not valid at this location" even when, equally unequivocally, it is valid.

A "seek assistance" message is making no statement regarding validity one way or the other - mildly annoying, but not accusatory.

 

[Wallsendmag]

No, it is unequivocally stating that the ticket "is not valid at this location" even when, equally unequivocally, it is valid.

A "seek assistance" message is making no statement regarding validity one way or the other - mildly annoying, but not accusatory.

OK I'll bow to your great knowledge of the working and setting up of S&B gates

 

[tony_mac]

OK I'll bow to your great knowledge of the working and setting up of S&B gates

he's obviously talking about the content of the message.

While you know that "is not valid at this location" actually means something else, passengers don't.
And I agree that it is a silly thing to have as a 'default' message - I wouldn't expect a first year undergraduate to make that mistake, let alone professionals.

 

[sheff1]

OK I'll bow to your great knowledge of the working and setting up of S&B gates

I have no idea what an S&B gate is. What I can do is read and understand English. The gates at Leeds present me with a message that my ticket is "not valid at this location" when it undoubtedly is valid.

You seem to be suggesting that such false statements are somehow acceptable because that is how the gates are set up. It is not acceptable to knowingly present false messages to customers and if the gates cannot be set any other way they should not be deployed.

 

[furlong]

The gates at Leeds present me with a message that my ticket is "not valid at this location" when it undoubtedly is valid.

They still haven't fixed that? Then it's about time someone affected by it reported it to the ORR for formal investigation as a potential breach of the consumer regulations - telling people their ticket is invalid might cause them to pay more than necessary. (There's also an argument that it breaches the franchise agreement - valid tickets are required to be accepted.) Replacing humans by machines doesn't absolve the company of responsibility for automated decisions.

 

[Intercity 225]

Manchester Victoria is my local station, I use it regularly. The barriers are pretty poor, had countless valid tickets rejected and there doesn’t seem to be any consistency as to the reasons why. At least there’s plenty of staff on hand and they’re good at letting people through without delaying them too much - much better than the experience I’ve had at some other stations that have been experiencing barrier issues.

 

[BurtonM]

I should add there is a 'seek assistance' message under 'ticket not valid at this location'.
Why should I have to ask someone to open the barrier for me on a daily basis, though? It's especially annoying as I often need to use the wide gate.


Surely the solution here lies with whoever changed the flow routing though (who was that and can they undo it?)

 

[sheff1]

They still haven't fixed that? Then it's about time someone affected by it reported it to the ORR for formal investigation as a potential breach of the consumer regulations

Definitely not fixed last week. I might investigate your suggestion further.

 

[BurtonM]

Still not fixed, and affecting a lot of people.
I'm surprised Northern won't just leave the barriers open for convenience's sake.

I asked for an ETA on a fix on Twitter and got no reply.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Still not fixed, and affecting a lot of people.
I'm surprised Northern won't just leave the barriers open for convenience's sake.

I asked for an ETA on a fix on Twitter and got no reply.

It took us two years to fix

 

[Haywain]

It took us two years to fix

You mean that it took us two years to get S&B to fix it. We were much more competent than them!

 

[Wallsendmag]

You mean that it took us two years to get S&B to fix it. We were much more competent than them!

That’s correct and hopefully after tonight VTEC’s S&B gatelines will be reading 99%+ of tickets again

 

[mallard]

Why should I have to ask someone to open the barrier for me on a daily basis, though?

Welcome to the world of (monthly) season tickets. The magstripes on ordinary paper tickets simply aren't designed to last for more than half a dozen or so trips through a reader... (One of the reasons return tickets have seperate out/return parts.) A monthly season may well be expected to pass through a reader over 100 times, so you're almost certainly going to have to seek out staff every time after the first few days. Apparently the rail industry doesn't care.